Yeah, I'm not telling them about our black germandoberhuskylabs.

:) Mary

yep, if it really is a registered service/disability dog...i am sure they are registered somewhere...they should not be classed in the same category breed or not. then again,how long did it take for stores to accept service animals?

What I just can't understand is why homeowner's insurance would handle any sort of dog "attack" (and the resulting lawsuit). The owner of the dog should be held solely responsible (in most instances), in my opinion. If your dog bit someone while restrained in your vehicle, would auto insurance cover any resulting payouts? I'm pretty sure it wouldn't. Or if your child is injured while playing in your backyard, would homeowner's insurance cover any medical bills?

I just don't get the reasoning behind it all.

Brenda

Have to tell you about a man here that had a chow, he was an older man and the chow was his only companion. He went to a store and left the chow in the car with the windows slightly open. He had beware of dog signs in the window and some bright person stuck their hand in the car window and got bit. They took the dog away from him and put it to sleep. The big debate was he knew the dog would bite (the beware of dog signs) so he was liable for having a vicious animal so if you put a beware of dog sign on your fence and some burglar walks into your back yard and gets bit you are liable because you knew the dog would bite. I don't remember who ended up paying for it but because it was about ten years ago when this happened and the man was on state aide.

As a Chow owner I have to say that yes she would bite if someone had her in a corner but she would never go after someone same as her predecessor and when I owned a German Shepard the same thing. My Shepard even had several 1st place ribbons in obedience that didn't make a difference. None of them have bitten anyone (except for a one vet tech)because I am responsible pet owner.

I believe this is just another way for the insurance companies to get more money. How many people who don't have insurance own these breeds and how many people are going to 'forget' to tell their agents what breed of dog they own.

That poor man. What kind of idiot ignores the signs, anyway? It's because of those ignoramuses (ignoramusi?) that there are so many laws and rules, in my opinion.

I agree about the breeds of dogs listed having the "potential" to do harm. My dog Red was a chow/retriever cross, and he was what I lovingly refer to as "volatile". I don't know what his life was like before he showed up at our house, but even I have to agree that some dogs are just born a little whacko.

I also agree that this insurance business probably comes down to money. I can't see it standing up to any scrutiny, but far crazier things have happened.

Remind me to never get a "Beware of Dog" sign!

Brenda

I've heard "Dog in Yard" signs are more legally correct.

I have instructed all the children who are allowed in the yard (by definition, they are children I love or they wouldn't be allowed in the yard) that if the dog growls at them, God forbid actually nips them, they are in SO much trouble with me, because each of them has received instruction in reading dog language and they would have gotten at least three or four warnings before the teeth come out. They know about tail and ears being down, dogs walking away, etc. If you get bit in my yard it's because you had it coming, and now you deal with me.

I paid $1,500 to move the electric meter so the meter reader doesn't have to come into the fenced yard, so any stranger who "wanders" through the locked gate or over the 5-foot fence, heh heh... idiot.

My dogs are great. They wouldn't keep anyone out of the yard though (unless they were startled by Pretty Boy's looks..).

Isis nipped a kid once. He went under the table where she was sleeping and pulled her hair. He was more scared than anything. The thing that upset me about that was his mother was watching and although she said she realized it was his fault she still stormed out of the house.

Adrea

Our homeowner insurance covers our Chow. $10,000 for injury to an invited guest, $100,000 for an unvited guest. It is part of their standard policy. If any one needs the name of the company- e-mail me.

I was told that chow mixes are the #1 dogs destroyed in animal shelters. Such a shame. Have you guys seen the show "The dog whisperer"? Ceaser does such great work with "violent" dogs. Pit bulls, rotties, chows, they all respond to his gentle methods. I love that show.

"$100,000 for an unvited guest"--- really? seems uninvited should get their "lickings" so to speak.

i catch the show once in awhile...very interesting.

By "uninvited guest" do you mean the 7 year old kid visiting the neighbors house who accidentally throws a Frisbee too high and it land in your yard and innocently runs over to get?
And by "licking" do you mean the child having their face ripped off?
I'm sorry, but twice in my life while I was young I witnessed a couple other kids viciously attacked by *bleep*er's dog. Of course both times the owner tried to blame the victim, saying they should have done this, or they shouldn't have done that. What a crock, when will animal owners start being held fully responsible for the actions of their dogs?
It makes no difference in the dog is in your yard and the their are signs everywhere, that's not the point. Using a dog to attack would be trespassers amounts to the same thing as (or at least it should legally) mounting guns around your house with triggers attached to trip wires. The dog, like the trip wire, can not differentiate between a would be burglar or a 7 year old looking for his Frisbee. The owner of the dog should be totally and solely responsible for the outcome, just like the person who set up the booby trapped guns.
And Zinnachick, kids make mistakes, it all part of the growing up process, if you have a vicious dog in your yard with kids and it ends in something tragic are you really going to blame the kids?

I know my views aren't going to be popular in this forum, but I have to speak up for the two innocent kids I remember from my youth and all those other kids out there that will inevitably be attacked by some obtuse dog owners "guard dog".
I'm a pretty easy going guy, but the incident of those two kids from my youth has left a very vivid scar in my memory, but I'm sure it doesn't compare to the scars, both emotional and physical, left with the two victims themselves.

No, honey, no, I would never have a dog loose in the yard who might actually light into a kid like that. I'm so sorry that you witnessed those horrible attacks. That kind of thing is not what I'm talking about at all. I'm talking about my dog actually baring her teeth and maybe applying them to a child's skin, God forbid actually leaving a bruise or breaking the skin. These dogs are your typical mutts who have no extraordinary guard instincts. If they were -- such as when I had an Akita for 10 years -- they would never be allowed near anyone without me there by them. And even that Akita knew the difference between a friendly child and someone with bad intent, or she would not have been allowed in the fenced yard alone. She loved the neighbor children and routinely got visited by them. She also saved me three times in 10 years from imminent attacks by strangers (back when I lived more dangerously than now).

It is never excusable for a dog owner to allow their dog to be in circumstances where it would feel threatened and lash out. It's our job to protect our dogs and the world at large from one another. In no way am I excusing leaving a pit bull in a yard alone where a kid could get in.

Good God, if a child was actually injured by my dog, chastising the child would be the last thing on my mind. It's my duty to make sure that doesn't happen, and that's what I'm talking about. My dogs are trained, they are restrained, they are reassured that they are in a safe place; that's half of the equation. The other half is making sure children who come near the dogs are educated about safe behavior, as well, and when I say I'll give that child heck for getting nipped, I mean I'm really serious about them knowing that certain behaviors are unacceptable around dogs, for THEIR safety, not the dogs'. The same way you'd punish a kid for running out into traffic.

Again, I'm sorry for what happened to those kids in your presence. No one should have to go through that.

Zinniachick
The problem that I see with dogs and owners is the owner can never really be sure what their dog will do under every circumstances. You can try your best to control all the circumstances, but nothing is foolproof and normally good dogs can sometimes act very bad.
In both of the cases I witnessed when I was younger the dogs had no prior history for doing what they did, and the owners were in disbelief of the situation and desperately trying to find some sort of outside or unnatural influence that would explain their dog's behavior.
Dogs are individuals, just like people, and people can sometimes do very bad things to other people. We hear about it all the time in the news. " I knew him all my life, he had a wife and kids and went to church on Sunday, I never thought he was capable of something like that".
The difference with dogs is they are not autonomous like most humans are, each one is (or at least should be) the property and responsibility of it's owner, and therefore the owner should be ready to accept the blame and punishment for their dog's actions as though they had done it themselves. This seldom ever happens in the real world, usually in cases where someone has been attacked by a dog where the victim is bit, the dog gets tied up for a few days as punishment and owner get a warning. The dog draws blood and the victim gets stitches, the dog might get put to sleep, the owner pretty much always gets away Scott free. The dog seriously maims or kills the victim, the dog gets put to sleep and the owner pays a small fine.
Now if it was a human that actually did the biting or the blood letting, or maiming or killing the consequences would have been much worse. Why is it because someone's dog does the assaulting that the consequences are so much less?

I think you answered you own closing question, Mucky. "The problem that I see with dogs and owners is the owner can never really be sure what their dog will do under every circumstances."

I don't like to allow anyone under the 7-10 range around my dogs. I say 7-10 because there can be a big difference in maturity and size in kids. Never unattended.

In the incident with Isis the kid was younger than that he didn't know better and didn't listen when I told him to stop. Isis got yelled at. The kids mom got yelled at. It could have been a very bad situation save for Isis leaving the faintest welt (she barely grazed his cheek and probably would have just scared him growling in a less confined space).

I might have left it at bad Isis but the kids mom thought it was funny he didn't listen (she wasn't done giggling before I heard a growl) and I wasn't physically close enough to grab him.

When I was younger I saw a kid get bit requiring a one stitch. He was spitting on the dog. The dog got put to sleep. The dad got him a whole series of dogs to torture. Took him years to accept his son was bad not the six or so dogs he caused to be pts.

I've never personally seen an unprovoked attack. That's why I always ask what the person was doing to initiate it. It's not to say there aren't unprovoked attacks but I wouldn't have a dog that unstable sharing my space. For whatever reason I can't imagine anyone else would either.

Adrea

Mucky- The policy covers thiefs, and such, and yes kids who could hop our 6 foot fence. Our dog is under constant supervision- even when in the yard. We got her over 3 years ago as an aggressive stray. She has underwent both obedience training and behavior modidication.
She now is a social, friendly dog, but we do not trust her due to her past aggression. We will never trust her- it is better for everybody involved- better safe then sorry, yes?

Mucky- I have no problem with your views, and me and DH are 100% accountable for the actions of our dog.

Tater Tot barks at everybody and everything, if they're outside his reach (usually that means he's inside the fence and they're not)... But the second a person comes inside the fence, he just wants to be petted, and if you pick him up, he's a lamb.

Even so, he's nipped Madison a time or two in play, as she plays aggressively with him, and he plays back just as aggressively, and sometimes accidents happen... nothing ever drew blood, and never deliberate, except he snapped at her once when she stumbled and fell backwards on top of him (only natural... she weighs 7 times what he does).

He's snapped at me a time or two when I was trying to take away something he wasn't supposed to have (he wants to chew on EVERYTHING he can get in his mouth, yaknow, and on these occasions, he had gotten under the rolling cart he likes to hide under -- his FIRST "den" when he moved in, and where he still likes to hide sometimes, although he's too big to get under there now except by wriggling on his side, which he does, lol).

He hasn't snapped at me in a long time, either. He doesn't like the result (I don't hit him, but I can be a rather IMPOSING PRESENCE when I choose to be, lol).

I agree people should be responsible for their dogs, though. However, Adrea, I know some folks DO like having dogs who are vicious, for whatever reason... some say for "protection," but I think some just like having a mean dog, and some make them mean by treating the dogs mean, taking out their own meanness on the dog.

I live in a county of roughly 225,000 people, and we've had 3, yes THREE children killed by dogs in this county in the last year. Two of the three were dogs kept on chains, which prompted the proposal of a local law banning chaining, but it didn't get passed (yet).

I don't remember all the details, but in at least one case, the dog was the pet of the same family whose 2-year-old was killed. Now how would you like to have your own dog kill your 2-year-old daughter? Dog was on a chain, but she got within its reach. That was all it took. It's tragic.

That said, having homeowner policies that won't cover certain breeds and make no exceptions for trained service dogs is just downright WRONG -- especially considering that many bites come from other breeds that usually aren't on those lists, and that a little pomeranian killed a 6-week-old infant in California a few years back.

Dogs have such similar emotional makeups to humans we sometimes tend to forget they ARE still dogs, with different instincts and understandings of the world. We shouldn't.

Please take care with your pets,
Jeff

just a short addition, the "uninvited guest" i was referring to was not a child with a frisbee. i was thinking more along the lines of breaking and entering.

Yeah, toady, and in THAT case, they should be so lucky as to JUST get dog bit, HUH??? :)

GoodKarma, I almost missed that post of yours about Cesar Millan (the Dog Whisperer)! Hubby and I LOVE that show. A couple times, I thought for sure he'd fail to help some of the really aggressive dogs (scary!), but sure enough, he came through, with the help of his gang of dogs. :D

I think my favorite episode was the one with the BIG dog (a Great Dane, I think) that was afraid to go into the school hallway after having skidded and slammed into the wall in the past. Cesar took the leash, and they went running into the building before the dog realized what was happening. Happy ending, as always. :) He's awesome!

Brenda

Well this is a bit of a segue, but hey you guys, especially Adrea, check out this site! Sled dog owners offer down-home tips on keeping a bunch of animals healthy and happy. I fell on this site while looking for Rubbermaid stock tank lids.

Here is a link that might be useful: sled dog central

LOL When I saw the link had "#Pee%20Log" at the end, I knew it had to be good. The link doesn't open right to that spot on the page, but it's worth scrolling down about half way.

Great idea, too! I wonder if they have any suggestions for dogs that actually pee on other dogs. :\

Brenda

I've never had a problem of my boys marking water buckets. If someone pulls up out here Guyu goes up greets them then washes their tires for them though...such a helpful pup.

At the dog park here, some guy was obliviously yammering away on his cell phone when a big Weimareiner walked over and watered the guy's pant leg. It was a challenge not to grin but we did manage.

Well I have been a dog owner of several differnt types from St. Bernard, Begal, mixed lab to now a 12 year old Great White Pyranees. I have never been questioned from our insurance agent about whether I had a dog. This is all new to me. I had no idea your pets made any difference in your homeowner's policy. In 1970s when we had our St. Bernard dog called Baron, on 4th of July my husband and I went to the drive-in movie. Baron was so terrified from the fireworks noise that he chewed the inside wall of the garage and chewed the washing machine hose next to the door that went into our dinning room. The water flooded inside our dinning room. The insurance covered it all. After that when 4th of july came we tranquilized our dog and stayed home.
Theresa

"By "uninvited guest" do you mean the 7 year old kid visiting the neighbors house who accidentally throws a Frisbee too high and it land in your yard and innocently runs over to get?
And by "licking" do you mean the child having their face ripped off?...It makes no difference in the dog is in your yard and the their are signs everywhere, that's not the point. Using a dog to attack would be trespassers amounts to the same thing as (or at least it should legally) mounting guns around your house with triggers attached to trip wires. The dog, like the trip wire, can not differentiate between a would be burglar or a 7 year old looking for his Frisbee. The owner of the dog should be totally and solely responsible for the outcome, just like the person who set up the booby trapped guns."

What a crock? Parents should be held liable for their children actions. Those kids KNEW they were wrong to go into someone else's yard, it is called trepassing! Everyone has to learn their actions have consquences while unfortunate (same as if they had been hit by a car running into the street to get the Frisbee) it is still their own fault. And now they have to live with those consquences. Now you can blame the dog or the owners of the dog, but face it the kids made a bad choice. They are lucky that choice didnt cost them their life. And those parents who weren't around to tell their children not to go into their neighbors yard should be charged with neglect.

atlasvi, if the official sanctioning body of the 'puter world were to give out prizes for resurrecting REALLY old threads, you my man (dear?) would be, without a doubt, the grand prize winner. LOL!

LOL!! Yeah, it is pretty old.:)

BTW, its not just dogs the insurance companies are denying.
Its horses too. We ran into this several years ago when we bought our last place. Insurance companies wouldn't insure us because we had horses, they said we would have to get "farm" insurance. O.k., so we go to the "farm" insurance carriers and they tell us "sorry, we don't insurance properties under 20 acres."
We had a heck of a time trying to get insurance. Its ridiculous too. Insurance companies are such a racket.

Yep pretty old....

I'd almost forgot about that incident with Isis. I'm still mad that the parent was giggling that the kid didn't listen.

My friends had trouble finding insurance for their place. They had a diabetic, blind, geriatric rotty.....still a rot from insurance standpoint....

My insurance agent told me flat out they don't care what kind of dog I have.....they don't cover dog bites anyway. So I am free to have my sweet pit bull Bailey.