Kentucky Bluegrass will overtake Tall Fescue eventually??

13 years ago

IÂve been seeding my lawn the past 3 years with Pennington Ultimate Grass Seed. What IÂm noticing is IÂm getting patches that are NOT fescue and to me look like Kentucky Bluegrass (e.g., patches 12-18" square of all Kentucky Bluegrass) which I donÂt like. As you walk around itÂs obvious where there is fescue and where there is Kentucky Blue Grass, textures totally different and colors somewhat different. There's way more Fescue than Kentucky Bluegrass as you walk around but you definitely notice patches where there is only Kentucky Bluegrass.

Upon investigating the label of the grass seed I found it contains some Kentucky Bluegrass in it which I never noticed when I bought it, I thought it was 100% Fescue. IÂve since read on this forum that is pretty common that Kentucky Bluegrass is included with Fescue for structure.

I donÂt know anything about Kentucky Bluegrass. WhatÂs the long term prognosis of both Fescue and Kentucky Bluegrass in a lawn? Is Kentucky Bluegrass more aggressive than Fescue and will it eventually choke the Fescue out over time? That seems to be what IÂm seeing, over time more and more larger patches of Kentucky Bluegrass. I overseed both spring and fall so thereÂs always a supply of this grass seed being introduced in the lawn. The lawn stays very thick by doing this.

So my goal would be to have 100% fescue looks-wise, I donÂt like the look of Kentucky Bluegrass. Do I have a way to get rid of the Bluegrass and have all Fescue? Or should I just continue using what IÂm using and place more grass seed on the areas that are solid Bluegrass in hopes I get some Fescue to come up with them so I donÂt notice the Bluegrass so much?

Pennington Ultimate Grass Seed

39.4% Rebel Exeda Tall Fescue

29.2% Justice Tall Fescue

19.6% Shadow II Chewings Fescue

9.6% Blue Ridge Kentucky Bluegrass

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Comments (4)

bpgreen
13 years ago
Are you sure it's the fescue you like and not the KBG? Also, I noticed that there's some Chewings fescue in there. That's a fine fescue and there's more difference in looks between fine fescue and either tall fescue or KBG than there is between KBG and tall fescue.

KBG spreads via rhizomes. There are some varieties of tall fescue that spread via rhizomes, but both of the varieties in htat mix are bunch grasses that only spread slowly through tillers. Chewings fescue also spread very slowly through tillers. The only fine fescue that spreads via rhizomes is creeping red fescue.

These three grasses all have different traits and are suited for different types of conditions.

Where in WA are you? You'll want to do things differently if you live in Seattle than if you live someplace like Pasco.

How much sun does your lawn get per day?
Wayne Reibold
Original Author
13 years ago
I live in Puyallup, WA a suburb of Tacoma/Seattle.

Whatever I'm seeing which I think is Kentucky Bluegrass is a spreading type grass (I think rhizomes when I see this type of spreading grass), not a straight up and down (vertical) grass like Fescue (or least what I think of when I think of Fescue).

So a lawn of Kentucky Bluegrass and Tall Fescue over the long haul, will the creeping/rhizome nature of the Bluegrass tend to dominate/choke out the Fescue??

Sunny to partial shade depending on what part of yard...

So
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Bluegrass (often referred to as KBG here, short for Kentucky Bluegrass) isn't bad. In fact many people prefer it to fescues. It has really good color and will fill in bare spots through specialized roots called rhizomes. The disadvantage to KBG is that it needs more water than fescue does. Fescue can develop deeper roots than KBG and can stay green with less water (or stay green longer without water) than KBG. There are several types of fescue used for lawns. Tall fescue is one type that is often used for lawns, but most tall fescue will not spread if any dies, so it needs to be overseeded periodically. One older type of tall fescue has wider blades and I don't care much for it. That variety is K31 (sometimes Ky31). Newer tall fescue varieties are nicer looking in my opinion. There are also some newer varieties that spread, although more slowly than KBG. Fine fescues are fine bladed, and at least one type is a spreading grass like KBG. The spreading type is creeping red fescue (it's not red in color, though). Are you getting sod or seed? The reason I ask is that if you seed now (or in the near future) it's going to be very difficult to keep either KBG or fescue healthy through the summer. Sod can be planted just about any time if you can water it until it gets established.
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Wow guys (& gals!) thanks for all the great advice! This was what I needed to here. Anyways, an update - four hours ago, I rounded up the entire front yard. I'm going to do the backyard tommorrow. I'm on my way to KBG! I"m gonna order the compost early next week. Bestlawn, the reason I did the 50% / 25% 25% mix is because I read the NTEP reports and they seemed to prefer Bedazzled over the other two in terms of many things. I don't have it in front of me but it looked like it was a more favorable grass. I mixed in the other two otherwise. Here's my question - I originally bought seed based on the assumption that I would be only overseeding. NOw that I have changed that path, should I be purchasing more seed? What pound / 1000sq feet do you put down on this lawn? Again, I Think I have around 14000 sq feet (I am trying to expand my backyard by 2000 square feet as well - hasn't happened yet) Right now I have enough to meter our 3 pounds / 1000 sq feet. Also - I did take pictures so I will post them at some point. PRobably after 2-3 days of my lawn kicking the bucket.
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Most around here, including me, will try to encourage people to avoid "scotts" grass seed mixes. They are far from being good by any means. I was trying to find the % of the Sun & Shade you quoted and all I could find is this.. "Scotts Select Turf "Sun and Shade" (50% Boreal creeping red fescue, 35% Ragnar II perennial ryegrass, 15% Alene Kentucky bluegrass). Boreal is a fancy name for common creeping red fescue. Although it is adapted to shady growing conditions, Boral has none of the bred-in advantages of improved fine fescue varieties. Ragnar II, like all perennial ryegrasses, has no shade tolerance. Alene is a common type bluegrass that ranks at the bottom of the NTEP trials." A further explanation of my statement above. 6-8 hours of sun is the standard for "Full sun", against the misconception of full sun truly being sun all day long. You could really use any of the three cool season grasses and do not need the fine fescues. However, like I said before, any of the newer varieties are not going to visually blend well if you have an old wide blade fescue. ..I also didn't mention the different growing rates if you are to put a KBG or RYE on the fescue. A few days after cutting, it will look uneven. Ultimately the best thing to do would be to kill of the whole thing and start over (assuming you do have an old course tall fescue), but if your really against that, I'd say to overseed it with a turf type fescue. Go to a local garden center for better seed.
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Any brand is fine, really, just look for something with 0 noxious weed seeds and a very low number/percentage of other weed and crop seeds (you usually won't find 0 other weed/crop seeds, but it does get pretty close in good brands). Pennington and the like tends to be better than Scotts', but also a bit pricier. So although the bang is better, the buck is also higher. Specialty fescues are going to bang much higher, and the buck is also going to be far higher. It just depends on where your aim is. Since you're looking for a dark fescue as per your previous message, I'd do some research. You may actually want to go specialty and spend a bit more for a nicer, darker lawn. Ultimately, that was my decision; I went with a spendy seed that resulted, in the end run, with me doing practically no work years later--I chose incredibly dark green Kentucky bluegrass that repairs itself. Fescue won't do that, though, and will require some reseeding occasionally even with perfect treatment and well-balanced soil. Which is the next point. For a good seed and a good lawn, get a soil test. I tend to recommend Logan Labs. Spend the summer before reseeding fixing the soil and getting it correct--good soils grow good lawns. Bad soils won't grow dark green, healthy lawns. Period. And if you go with a darker grass, nuke the K-31 in July with RoundUp for an August reseeding. You won't like it mixing with the new, dark, and much finer fescue. K-31 is, in a word, trash. Any good, dark fescue is also going to be much finer-bladed and the old stuff will stand out like a sore thumb.
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bpgreen
13 years ago
I'm kind of surprised you don't have any perennial rye in the lawn. With the moisture there, KBG can be prone to diseases and perennial rye does well in moist conditions.

Since KBG spreads and tall fescue doesn't, the KBG will become a larger proportion of the lawn over time. It won't kill the tall fescue, but any tall fescue that dies (for any reason) will be replaced by KBG spreading in.
Billl
13 years ago
Which grass "wins" depends on the conditions. In a sunny area with lots of water and plenty of nutrients, KBG can spread pretty aggressively. Over time, it will fill in any gaps or damage where the fescue plants currently are.

On the flip side, in a shady area that isn't fertilized as much, KBG generally won't spread much. If that area is wet, it might actually decline due to fungal problems.

Kentucky Bluegrass will overtake Tall Fescue eventually??

Comments (4)

bpgreen

Wayne Reibold
Original Author

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Billl

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Kentucky Bluegrass will overtake Tall Fescue eventually??

Comments (4)

bpgreen

Wayne ReiboldOriginal Author

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Billl

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Wayne Reibold
Original Author