I am a phal killer. "They're easy" my butt!

The Doritaenopsis Hybrid declined because it was on a South Facing windowsill in an unheated house and the decline took a few years. It even flowered a few times no doubt from reserves built up when it was a vibrant orchid.

Note, South Facing in Southern Hemisphere.

I often wonder how many of those Phal rescues are alive after the root inspections, root trimming, cinamon, repotting advice given on these pages.

Anyway, my kill rate on Phals is not too bad, though i lost a few when they were agisted out when i went on Hols. for a month. Unsuitable conditions quickly take a heavy toll.

Nuff of Phals. Sooner or later, all newbies are going to try something that will hate their conditions and they can read books, fiddle around, post on forums. whatever, and no matter what they do, that something will linger on and then die. Miltoniopsis, Nigrohirsuite Dendrobiums are a waste of time and money in my conditions

Oh, you mean in the last week or two. Let's think .... hmmmm. Okay, last week I clobbered an Slc Hazel Boyd. It was at the back of the bench and I hadn't noticed water lodging in the new growth, which turned to black slime and then proceeded to turn the entire rhizome to match. \

The greenhouse is way too full of plants, and it would have been nicer had it been one of the big space hogs instead of the tiny Hazel Boyd that croaked.

Oh, Arthur! I bet I have killed more orchids than you have .... lol.

Calvin - I know the feeling of those that fool us into thinking they just might make it and then "POOF", they're gone.

Phals - I won't go there. I always make people angry when I talk about them. Also notice I don't say anything about cats (the furry ones) either?

Just discovered another compost addition: Gastrochilus japonicus. I'm not motivated to try the mouth-to-mouth on this one although I did like it.

Now the one I'm spending some time on is my Masdie strobelii. It grew and grew and bloomed and bloomed for years and then went almost dead. I managed to save a tiny two leaf piece with a couple of good roots. Repotted it and it promptly grew another leaf. Then it lost a leaf. Then it grew another couple of leaves. Lost a leaf etc. etc. etc. It now has one leaf with a yellow blotch. Things aren't looking good.

I have only killed a young Vanda hybrid from the W.O.C. Not sure what I did wrong, but noticed the leaves looking ugly one day, I isolated it from my other vandas & within a couple weeks it was heading to the garbage =0( I think it was an Ascocenda Fat Tuesday or something like that...

-Ray-

I find it most irritating to have to watch the S L O W deterioration, helpless. I notice a seedling not doing too well...weeks go by...there's still hope, but...one more leaf gone....A paphiopedalum and bulbphyllum seedling have been my latest to go.
I've had more rescue success stories than failures lately, but that's not to say there are no failures. I have adopted a defensive attitude, looking for problems.

I think some of the posts here which relate a history of good growing, with sudden changes for the worse, is just observing nature at work. Who said these guys live forever? They get weak, succumb to virus or bugs, and it's done performing for us.
None of the posters here are killing out of ignorance of the basics. I don't think we should blame ourselves. S**t happens, stuff ends up needing repotting at a bad time, less-than-adequate divisions have to be made, and we do what we can to save 'em. Some stay alive long enough to teach us something; some take the mystery to their death.

recently, nothing has actually died yet although i have about half a dozen which are slowing dying. i am still trying different life support systems that i am been reading on this forum. I am on my last stand: I have got some Keikiroot and have applied it - so another waiting game begins.
sue

I haven't killed anything recently.... When I was first starting out I killed a couple of phals. They were my first two, so I wasn't very happy about that. I'm still nursing along my third phal which was given to me as a present when I moved into my new apartment. It was supposed to be a compact grower, but it walked right out of it's little 2 1/2" pot. It's getting better but I hope that one day it will grow a new batch of roots.

I have an oncidium that I divided and potted up. The weird thing is that, except for the lead bulb almost all of the roots on the back bulbs died. They're still green but getting very wrinkly. I don't know if they'll re-root or not but the lead bulbs are putting out new growth like crazy so I guess they'll be OK.

I have a miniature dendrobium that is very fussy. Every month or so a cane will up and die on me for no immediately obvious reason.

My masdevalia is doing surprisingly well, despite not really getting proper cloud forest conditions. The heat in my florescent light garden is kinda high due to the balast from the lights but the humidity usually helps with that. The problem is the humidifier is dying so humidity isn't the greatest.

Despite this almost everything is doing well. I have a phal that has been in constant bloom for 6 months now. I have another, 2 jammed into one pot that blooms and re-blooms like it's going out of style. I became disenchanted with phals until I encountered these two plants!

After my first rebloom a few weeks ago, I am now on the way to my first killing (see revival of my post on "fungus"). It was a lovely catt. with a delicate fragrance that started to ail after its first few days with me. I didn't even manage to take a photo of the flowers before they started to drop. So now I feel that I have REALLY joined the club!
I'm not sure about the Miltoniopsis that I acquired last week. The plant looks healthy enough, but the flowers are gradually drying up. I bought it without any new buds, and there seem to be a quite a few dried stems that were cut off, so, hopefully, it may just have come to the end of its flowering cycle. Apart from that, the six remaining plants are doing well.
Judy

Hello saucer,
Re: your comments on the oncidium, "The weird thing is that, except for the lead bulb almost all of the roots on the back bulbs died.": I have found that oncidiums (and cattleyas) sometimes have no viable roots on the back bulbs. I try to keep them together anyway, since they offer energy storage of sorts to the rest of the plant. As long as some of the newer pbs. have roots, your ok.

I was doing a rush watering last week and my arm hit a Phal and knocked it on its head. Looked like someone took an ax to it. Decapitated. I picked up the head, looked at it, looked at the roots all over the floor and dumped the whole mess in the garbage.

The annoying thing, it was one of those expensive hybrids from Normans which was given as a gift.

Probably virused anyway.

Jane

I'm working hard to kill a large S/B, it's almost intentional. In fact, I have 3-4 fairly large Oncs that I'm hoping struggle to their final demise. For about 3 years I've been moving from the large plants to smaller ones and if the existing large ones struggle, I really don't do much to try and save them unless they have special meaning to me or the wife. Probably ought to look at trading them, but the ones I want to get rid of are the pretty standard stuff that most newer growers acquire in thier first year or two of growing.

I do have D. Dawn Marie that was @ 8" when purchased, it now has 3-4 canes that are at least 2.5'. I can't handle things that tall needing that much light over winter, it causes me to sacrifice too much light for the shorter 'kids. I've moved it off the 'tall plant' bench and it is sitting in front of an east window waiting for steady warm temps to go outside. Hope it can make it there until I can get it outside. I'd really hate to have to 'Kev' that one, it can really hold those cream and reddish-orange flowers for a long time. I've never done a trade, but I might consider one or a give-away just to keep from having to compost it.

I have a 4" pot pretty full of tags from all of the failures/learning experiences. My goners worksheet is about as long as my current plants worksheet ;-)

Bob

A Paph. Armeni White seedling I paid way too much for is on its last leg. Turns out the potting media underneath was way broken down, moldy and rotting the roots. I know better than this and usually do repot, but this was a vendor I trusted. Oh well, the Ottawa Orchid Show is this weekend and Zephyrus, Paphanatics and Piping Rock will all be there. I'm sure I'll find something to make me feel better... beyond the few hundred $ already pre-ordered.

Julie

Not yet. I fear killing my new C. lueddemanniana. It arrived with an in-tact rootball (in osmunda) but no pot. It looks as under-watered as it can be without the leaves starting to shrivel - leaves are still firm and the newest pbs are not too shrunken. But the roots are very white. I put it in a standard plastic pot which fits it really well and leaves a 2" air-space at the bottom. If I put it outside and it rains when I'm not there to take it in, it should still dry out pretty quick out there (15th floor - lots of air movement). Plus it'll get great light all morning. I'm trying not to obsess about the shrunken pbs and the white roots.

John

P.S. If I had more plants, I'm sure my kill-rate would be much higher !

Bob

It is possible to trade the common stuff like SB, but it does take some effort. I traded both of mine a few years ago and got some nice stuff. The big problem now is the changes the postal system made in box size restrictions. A couple of years ago, you could send large boxes based on weight. Now they take into consideration the size of the box despite its weight. If the box is over sized, the extra charge doesn't make it worth your while. I tried mailing a larger box and the cost would have been $18. I took it home, cut off a couple of inches and the cost was $6.

K

I kill things. Even though I am loathe to admit it, some of my rescues are self generated. Although I have a pretty broad range of intermediate conditions, it is still not right for all orchids, so some of them that I try never do well.

The Coryanthes fieldingii. It had done well for 3 years, had rebloomed 3 times, and then tanked this winter after being outside last summer. No obvious pests or diseases. Even though the plants can get large, I was gonna keep it, but getting another one isn't at the top of my list.

Good topic, Kevin. Whitecat8

Can I talk about plants that I'm trying to kill, but won't flippin' die?!!!

Restrepia striata - a really nice healthy plant that sometime late last summer took a huge nose dive. I've been waiting for it to die so that I can delete from my spreadsheet. Grow a leaf, lose a leaf, or stare at me stubbornly. Well, I don't like to be stared down. Freakin thing now has 3 old leaves and 2 new ones. I'm gonna have to keep it.

Spathoglottis kimballiana - Had it for years, and I think it really does want to die, except that I give it enough love for it to hang on. What's wrong with me? It wants to die. I've put it out in the sun (it has now lived outside for a week now - no acclimitization to the cold night temps and full all day sun. Do you think it will die? NO!

Well, and the numerous ctsms that put out a tiny new lead from a shriveled plant. The hanger-oners have about a month, and then that's it. I am out of patience.

And the stans! I have 4 left and I'm getting rid of all of them (actually all healthy, but they're too big). And the [bleep]ing tigrinia is now in spike! A good thing, but now I have to keep it to experience the bloom, otherwise what was the past year all for? So then what if the other 3 have spikes, just not shown?! How long do I now have to keep them?! Off to the compost heap with them all! (ok, just kidding about that ;) )

I get no respect.
Caroyn

Nothing very recently, but every Phrag besseae that I've bought (in bloom and were award quality and expensive) have only lasted in my greenhouse for 1 year at most. Then they drop dead. I love the flower, but I've given up on this species for good.

Does having them in rehab count?

Four paphs that HATED s/h - now in 2 1/2" pots in CHC mix.

Phrag. Jason Fischer that HATED s/h - now in 2 1/2" pot in sphag but he does have roots now.

One phal that I tried to kill in s/h but he has roots now living in a plastic bowl with sphag around his root nubs.

I did kill something last March within two weeks of receiving it that was an awarded division from the man who got the award. It was to be grown cool and shady and I fried it under fluorescent lights. I call it something because it was here for such a short period of time, I never learned the correct name.

Brooke

Whoever said Phals were easy lied! I'll never spend money on another one, that's for sure! As a novice, watching my first Phal die a slow death was very disappointing... especially since I thought I was well-armed with the necessary information to grow it... and then, to save it! I hate being a plant murderer!

The good news is... both my Epidendrum radicans and my Cymbidium Clenet whispering are alive and doing very well! They both have new growth, and apparently like the conditions I have to offer! In fact, the Cym is growing better and faster than I ever expected! I can see lots of healthy roots through the sides of the clear plastic pot it's in. I'm so happy with this orchid that I'm on the lookout for more Cyms to add to my abbreviated collection!

Gardnergal, thanks for the tip about oncs! These backbulbs are quite wrinkly, but I've heard that they never really quite fill out once they're water stressed. I'll just leave them on as long as they stay green.

This thread seems to be turning into a dumping ground for the undesirables...or those who just won't thrive under our conditions. Perhaps we should wrap up those which aren't too far gone, and exchange them with each other?? I have a Milt. which is crying to go somewhere--anywhere--besides being trapped in my gh.

Gardnergal, when you say you have a Milt. Do you mean a Miltonia or one of those beautiful Miltoniopsis that only thrive in the Pacific North West or places with that sort of climate.

Breaking a huge spike( growing for more than 4 months) - does that count as killing? Yup, the Schomburgkia was ready to bloom with this huge 3+ feet spike - and the pot fell humpty dumpty and that was the end of that.
Now, you can add a whole load of phalies to the list I killed and will continue to kill....
My specimen sized Dend Spectabile died a few months ago for no good reason- wondering if it was a salt built up issue.

Jodik - Phals are easy for SOME people; for others, they're certain death. If an Epi and Cym are happy at your place, that's terrific. My Phals usually do well, but I haven't been able to bloom my Cym for anything. Whitecat8

"This thread seems to be turning into a dumping ground for the undesirables...or those who just won't thrive under our conditions." - Yes, there are those, but then there are the ones (like my Masdie) that just decide to take a nosedive. I comfort myself by believing it is their decision to croak not anything I've done. Makes sense doesn't it?

K

Kevin, you said, "...there are the ones (like my Masdie) that just decide to take a nosedive. I comfort myself by believing it is their decision to croak not anything I've done. Makes sense doesn't it?"

They're dying young so they can be reincarnated as Phals. Heh heh Whitecat8

WC - Good one. That made me laugh.

I think you have it slightly wrong. From what I've heard a phal comes back as a mushroom or a squirrel.

Masdies come back as oak trees or dogs.

I agree with Whitecat -Phals are EASY. Once they bloom, you don't have to do much to keep them looking beautiful. And once they stop blooming, you just have to hide them away until they begin again...
Anyway, thanks for the thread and all the laughter it is provoking.
Judy

Hello Arthurm,
The tag on the item in question which I received as a gift reads, Milt. Hajime Ono 'Trade Winds' x Milt. Annali Loeb 'Red Skin'. I think this is a Miltoniopsis, but would appreciate any comments to the contrary. Have not been able to find much information on this hybrid.
It's just languishing. It's been in a very small clay pot, in tree fern, for 11 months now (I repotted it last May since it wasn't happy then either). I've tried to make it happy...and am about to give up on it.
Ann

Certainly is a Miltoniopsis. Think San Francisco rather than San Diego conditions and you might have some chance of growing and flowering the plant.

These orchids are as scarce as hens teeth around these parts. Suspect it doesn't like temps over about 90F and not sure about the lower end temps.

Long line of ancestors in the pedigree, some bred in the UK.

Arthurm,
Don't want to hijack the thread, but thank you for the advice. Today was a record high, and over 94F in my greenhouse. I have given it plenty of humidity (with a few exceptions, like today, which went below 50%rh).
If you would like to try your hand at it, in New South Wales, I would be happy to get it to you--either by mail or hand carried to Melbourne next time I am on your continent. But I gather from your comments that they are scarce for a reason.
Ann

Ann, this may not be a close enough relative, but I've had a Miltoniopsis Robert Hull ('Golden Rog' #2 x 'Discovery Bay' Sunshine x Wine) that's bloomed all 3 years I've had it.

{{gwi:158912}}

Inside, it's in intermediate conditions:

- 60F-75F, winter temps inside
- E/SE light inside, supplemented by 2 T8s. The plant's in the 2nd row from the window.
- Humidity range % from the 20s-50s
- Air movement from oscillating fan

Outside in the summer in the lathe house:

- Minnesota temps, which can get into the 100s
- E/SE light, cut 50% by the lathe panels

Lathe house last summer:

{{gwi:158916}}

The Miltoniopsis is potted "tightly" in a small bark mix in a plastic pot.

Our conditions are quite different, but maybe something here will help your plant stay out of the "Kill Column." :) Whitecat8

Whitecat--I'm a lurker, not a chatter...but that beautiful Miltoniopsis has drawn me out! Did you get it locally or via the internet? I'm just outside of Madison, WI and my child lives too close to Plymouth, MN for me to not yet have visited the orchid greenhouse there.
nick

Ann, i would not like to see you arrested at the airport by Officer beagle. But thanks for the offer.

How is the discussion off topic? Going way back to post 1, no doubt Kevin was seduced by something similar to the photo put up by Whitecat and tried to grow Laelia pumila.

I could post a picture of My Den. speciosum with 14 spikes and some poor soul in the frozen north might try to grow it and it would be a struggle.

Of course, you can grow a Miltoniopsis, provided you can provide the conditions. I tried and failed and one reason is that it is much easier to provide warmth than coolness.

I think the reason I failed with my pumila was it came potted and I didn't pay enough attention to the fact the roots were all rotting. By the time I admitted that, my attempt at mounting just didn't take.

It also didn't help that for a long time I had those hated bush snails and whenever that plant would attempt to grow a new root, they ate it off. They're all gone now, but the pumila was just tired of trying.

Kevin brings up a point. Most of us go through a period of denial. The orchids (usually) want to live; they seem to put out some effort, and the blankety-blank decline is so slow...We are an optimistic bunch. To a point.

Whitecat8, Thanks for the support and great pictures. I think I've got the light about right; and am aiming for humidity levels higher than 50%rh; it's receiving nice air circulation; and the water does not seem to be a problem. Guess I need to work on the temperature--cooling down a bit. I'm not ready to pitch it yet.

Hi, Nick,

Glad to hear from you. The Milt. came from Winsome Orchids, which is 30 or so miles West of the the Twin Cities: http://www.winsomeorchids.com/. They don't have one on their site, but they have another Roger Hull cross.

What do you grow? (You wouldn't have to "chat" to let us know. :))

Ann, could it be the high temps more than the humidity for your Milt.? Mine's putting out new growths, w/ humidity having been 20%-55% during the winter and mostly below 50%. At any rate, I wish you well.

Whitecat8

WC - Tell me more about Winsome Orchids. I've never heard of them before.

Whitecat is correct - forget the humidity and concentrate on cooling it.

Jane

Kev, Winsome owners bought the facility that had housed wholesaler Castle Rock. They're out Hwy 12 between Maple Plain & Delano. I was out there once, about 3 years ago. At the time, their prices were good. Whitecat8

Whitecat,
In keeping with the title of this thread, I killed my first three phals and most of an oncidium--then I received a phal as a gift, and for 3 years it refused to die, grew and bloomed despite neglect--then I decided I should learn more about orchids, and take better care of it...needless to say I nearly killed it, over fertilized I think, burned the roots right off, three pairs of leaves got all limp and wrinkled I kept it that way for about 6 months before I got the nerve to repot (from tight sphagnum moss to a bark mix) would you believe it perked right up, two months later the leaves are firm and upright, there are several new roots and two spikes that are about 6-8 inches long...
Now I have 20 orchids scattered around my living room, half are phals, one phrag, three onc, 2 catts, a vanda, a paph a zygo and a tolumnia. I've rebloomed most of the phals and the phrag, most of the others I've had less than a year, so we'll have to wait and see.
I'm putting together an order for some seedlings from Byrd's...
nick

i see some common trend here: the more we kill, the more we want to buy. when we don't kill them, we find a reason for them to die (too big, for example) so that we can buy more. i am coming to the conclusion that killing them is a good thing because it allows us to buy more. i like this '.....' because I like buying them more than I like growing them well.
sue

For me, it's a matter of first seeing and wanting the flower... then, I go about trying to find out if that particular plant will live and bloom in my environment. Once I establish that, I go about searching for the right place to purchase one.

I have never intentionally killed or neglected a plant to make room for more... that goes against the very reason I garden! I simply realize that not all plants will thrive under my care, no matter how hard I try.

My goal in growing any type of plant is to make that plant thrive and bloom and get larger in my care. Sure, it's fun to choose new plants to buy... but if I can't keep the first one alive, it seems like a complete waste of time and money to buy another! Call me old school, but I dislike the age of disposable everything!

Hoping I'll receive absolution if I admit...I bought a beautiful cat in bloom at a charity auction. Must have been in an packed 8" pot and summered outdoors (it had weeds in the pot). As soon as it moved to my indoor conditions I noticed a black squishy spot, another another... I did a massive splitting - One big plant down to 5 small ones which weren't too happy. It made me absoulutely sick! I now have one little pot with two bulbs, one with a leaf and one without. It is so sad! But it won't die - and it is still green....poor thing...

Hey, Nick,

Congratulations on hanging in there. If at first you fail with a Phal, fear not, for you may be fortunate with Phrags and even Phals in the future. :)

If your living room has the range of light to support Phals through Vandas, that's wonderful.

Oooo, Byrd's.

Whitecat8

I'm with Jodik on this-I buy them to see them bloom and thrive! I've only had my orchids for less than two months, so I've yet to average a kill. But I did manage to take out a cyclamen by leaving it on my desk at work in crappy air over a long weekend. Time from florist to dead - ONE WEEK. (I nearly cried)

Ah, I just killed my Stenoglottis longifolia. Really too bad, I liked that one, actually mostly for the foliage. It had a hard last winter, but came back, but this past winter it kept trying to throw up new shoots, which then died, and I think it just used up all of it's energy on false starts. sniff :(

Carolyn

Sometimes, no matter what we do, we lose plants... and we rack our brains and reread culture information, trying to find out what went wrong... and sometimes, there's nothing we could have done differently.

I believe that a green thumb is nothing more than applied knowledge... mixed with a little common sense. But since plants are living genetic things, sensitive to conditions and care, we can't always make them do what we want.

It's sad sometimes, losing a plant that we tried so hard to care for... but it's a good lesson, too... we can manipulate Mother Nature to a certain extent, but we will never control Her.