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drippy_gw

Bees Nest

drippy
18 years ago

I have a bees nest in my small shed - when I open the door, it's right about at eye level. A mad hornet (I think it was a hornet) flew out when I opened the door yesterday, which tipped me off to the presence of the nest. Any ideas on how to get rid of this menace without using super toxic Raid? I'm a little bit chicken about the idea of just knocking it down - I'd kinda like to kill off the hornets. Is there a combination of some of the usual household helpers - vinegar, ammonia, alcohol or such - that I could use as a spray?

TIA,

Kim

Comments (22)

  • breezyb
    18 years ago

    Do you have an idea of what basic type of hornet it is?

    Paper wasps, which build the multi-celled little grey paper nests aren't very aggressive & can be knocked down at night.

    Mud daubers, which build small mud nests are completely harmless & can be left alone.

    Now any of the yellow-jacket colored hornets can be downright dangerous & should probably be eradicated by a professional.

    Oh, & Raid not too recently has come out with what's supposed to be a non-toxic/organic (or somewhat organic) hornet spray. I believe it uses high concentrations of certain essential oils.

  • Kimmsr
    18 years ago

    Is it a bee?
    Is it a paperwasp?
    Is it a yellow Jacket?
    Of those only the Yellow Jacket poses a real problem. My yard tool shed has the paperwasps building and tending nests all summer and they have never even made an ornery attempt at intimidating me. Bees are around everywhere here and they never bother me either, but the Yellow Jackets are something else.

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  • Gimme3Steps
    18 years ago

    Drippy, a hornet usually uses a bush, or limb in a tree, i never seen a true hornet nest built under shelter. If u could describe the size an appearance, of the nest, perhaps more pertinent advice could be offered. or post a pic. Yellowjackets nest in the earth, this sounds like a wasp nest, to me, based on it's location, although true bees will use structure, quite often. If it's honeybees, find a local bee-keeper to re-settle them, for ya, dont bother em.

    in any event, all u gotta do is go in there at night with a broom, or mop, or a stick, an have a flashlight w'ya. Knock it down, then leave. Check back the next day, in the PM. Odds are great, they'll be gone, if not leavin. Worst case, it'll take 2 days for them to cut a trail, an go re-start buildin them a home.

    Good luck...)))

  • tiffy_z5_6_can
    18 years ago

    Drippy,
    If it's one of the 'paper' nests, make sure you remove even the slightest pieces which are adhered to the starting surface. If not, they will start another nest in the same spot as soon as you knock it down.
    We have a log home with a covered veranda and overhangs in all other sections which provide great places for the wasps. If the tip of the nest isn't scrapped off, they return so quickly to the same place. On average we remove three nests a year, and all depending on location, may leave a couple if they are in the very top of the 'peaks'. In the fall, when things are cold, we remove these.

  • drippy
    Original Author
    18 years ago

    Okay, thanks, folks - it's a papery oval shaped nest, probably paper wasps. Yesterday I opened the door, standing a good bit back, and nothing flew out, so I may just go on that way without bothering the nest if I can. Thing is, I have to get tools in and out of there on a regular basis, so if there's too much activity when I open the door, the nest may have to go.

  • vstech
    18 years ago

    I think you should definately knock down the nest. wait until a cool night and remove it. the wasps will find a new place to build a nest if you are worried about their feelings. but if you keep the nest you will most likely get stung. paper wasps usually attack when disturbed.

  • Kimmsr
    18 years ago

    There is no need to harm these beneficial insects, knock down their nests, or anything else that would harm them unless they decided to attack you. In over 50 years of gardening the only thing these wasps have done is eat some insects out of my gardens, they have not even tried to harm me.

  • vgkg Z-7 Va
    18 years ago

    "- it's a papery oval shaped nest, probably paper wasps"

    Not quite enough specific description to determine wasp or hornet. But you could be sure that if it's hornets they would let you know.

    WASP :
    {{gwi:144829}}

    HORNET:
    {{gwi:144830}}

  • breezyb
    18 years ago

    If it looks like that bottom one - DO NOT KNOCK IT DOWN & STAY FAR AWAY FROM IT.

    The types of wasps that build that type of nest are extremely nasty & dangerous. You're best off getting a professional pest control company to remove it.

    The top type is built by relatively harmless wasps that will pretty much leave you alone. I have those nests all over the place - particularly in my barn - & they leave both me & my horses alone.

  • drippy
    Original Author
    18 years ago

    Nope, NOT paper wasps judging from the picture - nest looks more like the bottom, only it's very smooth - almost looks like it was thrown on a potter's wheel. My inclination at the moment is to leave it alone until after cold weather sets in. I've opened the door to the shed 2 or 3 times since I posted this, and nothing's flown out (I always stand back a good bit while I open the doors!) So far I've been able to get my tools in and out, but I'm using good sense and not getting my face up in the way. If I heard any buzzing, I'd back off.

    I have scads of bees and wasps in my yard this year. Last week, when my holly tree (one of the wild varieties - American? not the shiny domesticated type, a lighter green somewhat variegated one - came with the house) was in bloom, it was absolutely covered in bees - this was the first year I realized it had a scent to the flowers. The bees have also gone nuts with the blueberries (which also came with the house) - as a result, we're going to have LOTS of blueberries this year!

  • Gimme3Steps
    18 years ago

    Drippy, nice to hear that you Appreciate pollinators, Friend...))) I'm kinda worried, because if that nest looks like that lower picture, it Is Indeed, a Hornet nest, Be Very Careful, around it, if you chose not to knock it down. I aint never been stung by a Hornet but one time in my life, an i'll tell ya, one time is All it takes, to Respect what they can do. I never seen a hornet nest built under shelter, yours is a first, if thats what it is. I Hear ya...Re: the Holly tree, YEs, a holly tree is SUCH a Beneficial, Beautiful tree, when blooming, to Bees...))) Last year, i almost ran into the first Hornet nest i've seen, in our yards, in many years. It was in a ornamental bush, caint remember the cultivar. But the Hornets were kind, they didnt attack me as i brushed up against their Bush Home on the ridin lawnmower, but i Gaurantee ya, i didnt push my luck, no more, i gave them a Wide berth, an warned any visitor, especially children, not to go near that bush. I wouldnt blame ya one bit, if ya knocked it down, but i also know, if you can live in peace w/em, that'll be a Good Thing, jus be careful...)))

  • vgkg Z-7 Va
    18 years ago

    Drippy, I had one of those Hornets nests in my attic a few years ago and only knew it was there from seeing the hornets going in & out of a small gap in the house roof frame. I carefuly went up there (inside) to find the source and the nest had already grown to almost football size. This was an unfinished attic (rafters & such) not a usable attic. I returned later with 2 cans of hornet nest spray (sorry, not organic for these guys) one can in each hand and let them have it from ~15' away. As I saturated the nest I could hear the loud droning BUZZZZZZZZZZ inside as the hornets panicked trying to get out (I also panicked as the spray cans were slowing down, gulp, and the BUZZZZZZZ was Very Intimidating). But I backed down the fold-up stairs at the last moment not hanging around to see what happened. The next day the in & out traffic stopped and the nest was dead.

    If you can catch your's while it's still young it may be an easy thing to kill. If you wait till winter it'll be tough going to get anything from that shed by August. The nest only gets bigger over time as the hornet population gets into the hundreds. Good luck with whatever you do but have a good escape plan ready ;o). vgkg

  • breezyb
    18 years ago

    Also keep in mind that these types of hornets get increasingly aggressive as the season progressives. By late summer/early fall, it will be dangerous to get within several yards of that shed never mind enter it.

  • Gimme3Steps
    18 years ago

    The BAD thing, about a hornet, is that they will Definately defend their nest, jus like a Yellowjacket. But one can get stung by multiple yellowjackets, an still be ok. Hornets pack a WHOP, an if too many of em ever attack ya, you gon be in trouble. They WILL, attack en-masse, if conditions warranted such, that's why....even tho they are a usefull pollinator,...they are one to be feared, an kept to it's own proper home.One needn't fear them, while pollinatin, its in Defense of their home, one better be careful. A hornet sting, on yo face, will feel like you jus got Shot. Yellowjackets , and Hornets, follow a Pheromone trail of scent, that's how they chase and send compatriots to the Battle. Thats why, one needs to ALWAYS, respect their capability. Hopin you dispatch of em, Drippy, in a good safe way,or else REMAIN, cautious, if it was my shed, they Dont Belong...If it was a bush, or a tree, they can live in Peace...)))

  • urthshaper
    18 years ago

    Do you have a beekeeper in your area? If you do, you can usually call them and get them to identify for certain what kind of nest it is. (Some bees make papery hives too, although they aren't that common.) If they are bees, they'll take them off your hands quite happily, and if they aren't, they can suggest ways of killing off the hive without raid or stuff like that. If it just needs smothering with a plastic bag, they also have the bee veil and may do it for you if you ask nicely.

  • marylandmojo
    18 years ago

    drippy: What is the size of the nest, now, by the way? When you say it's smooth and looks like it was thrown on a potter's wheel--that's usually the way the BEGINNING of a Hornets' nest looks (its interior). It starts out small and smooth, and later, in its finished stage, it's much larger and rougher looking, like corrugated cardborad, or paper mache (its exterior). If it's small, I wouldn't allow it to get large and full of hornets--I'd deal with it now. If you wait 'til cold weather, as you mentioned, the sucker may be big as a breadbox and have many hundreds of Hornets in it. If it's small (smaller than a softball), I'd take a propane torch (as high as the flame will go) to it. If you don't want to get THAT close, wire a gasoline soaked rag to the end of a pole (you determine the length you're comfortable with), light it and hold it under the nest from a distance. Hornets can't do much flying when you've singed their wings off (of course, if there's the slightest danger of starting a fire in your shed, forget these suggestions). When I was a child, I was constantly messing with Hornets' nests, in the summer, and got stung a bunch. As mentioned above, they're VERY defensive of their nests. We used to throw rocks at their nest, and I swear, Hornets have the uncanny knack of following the path that the rock was thrown right back to the THROWER--not just one, but many, and sting the hail out of you. And they always seem to aim for the highest part of your body--your head and face. Hornets used to build a huge nest in one particular Apple tree, year after year, which was on a sloping path to our barn. I'd get a stick, and pedal my bike as fast as I could down the slope, swat it with the stick (drop the stick), and pedal as fast as I could to get away. The Hornets would ALWAYS catch up to me and sting me about the back of the head and neck as I was fleeing. They'll follow you QUITE a ways, also--up to a quarter of a mile, many times. I'd come to the house, crying, from the stings, and my father used to say, "Boy, if you keep messing with those Hornets, they're gonna be the death of you".

  • marylandmojo
    18 years ago

    drippy: By the way, I had some land cleared by a bulldozer last year (after the planted pines were harvested), and there were a number of stumps scattered about that did not make it to the piles the bulldozer pushed up here and there.
    A few weeks ago, I took a bar out to the field, and was prying the (semi) loose stumps out of the ground, and dragging them to the piles, to burn. As I pried one stump up, a mad-sounding bee of some sort came from beneath the stump, and shot by my face. It turned and came back at me, and I took the straw hat off my head and fought it for a while as it tried to sting me. It eventually flew off, and as I looked beneath the stump, there was a very smooth round nest about the size of a billiard ball attached to the underside of the stump (tan, in color). There was one bee inside it, I noticed--a Japanese Hornet. I don't know if you've seen a Japanese Hornet, but they look like a Yellowjacket on steriods--about 10 times larger, but resembling a Yellowjacket in body configuration. I cut a limb and swatted the small nest and knocked the Hornet down, and squashed it. Looking at the nest, inside the perfectly smooth, round, paper oval was a small comb with about 8 or 10 chambers in it, each one having a fat larvae wiggling inside it, about the size of a large maggot (would have made great fish bait). Those larvae, of course, would have become MORE Japanese Hornets as they matured, and they would have helped build the nest bigger, and become part of the swarm that the completed nest would contain. So, this small nest had only two Japanese Hornets--the one that flew at me, and the one that remained, that got squashed. If I'd
    waited a month or two to dig up that stump, no telling how large the nest would be, and how many Hornets it would contain; so I was very fortunate to find it when it was small and contained only two Hornets. No doubt, this is how Hornets begin their nests--a few of them, at first, one laying eggs and caring for them until there are more and more and more, and the nest is built larger and larger to contain them all.

  • drippy
    Original Author
    18 years ago

    Um, I guess I could get banned from this part of the forum - largely practice organic methods, but you guys scared me. Got the Raid big guns stuff & sprayed the nest tonight - no apparent activity, but better safe than sorry, I guess. The nest was about the size of my fist and didn't appear to have grown any since I first posted. I didn't hear any buzzing tonight, nor did anything try to fly out when I sprayed (although I didn't get that close). Maybe it had been abandoned? Maybe the residents weren't home yet? I don't know, but the spray supposedly has a residual effect, and I'm supposed to be able to knock the nest down after 24 hours. I hated using the stuff though, and had to ask myself as the fumes floated away if the cure was worse than the disease - if my birds leave (albeit the shed is pretty far away from the bird feeders), I'll be gnashing my teeth.

  • marylandmojo
    18 years ago

    The cure WAS worse than the disease. Small nest like that probably had but a few hornets...now you've poisoned your shed. Oh, well, you can just lock it up and leave it for 20 years, or so (I think that's the half-life of Raid). It MAY be safe after that.

  • Gimme3Steps
    18 years ago

    Drippy, dont worry bout it, u already have shown that You Truly care about Life, an dont destroy it, indiscriminately. You did what is Necessary, to preserve yo peace, when goin into ya shed. A Hornet will thrive, in it's Natural Place, an yo shed, AINT...such...))) Glad you removed the threat, but Life can quite often, throw u a WildCard, again, down the road...))) If ya ever see a Hornet nest where it's SPOSED to BE, leave em alone, they truly are helpful pollinators, an they aint aggresive, when simply tryin to gather food. A Hornet represents the truest duality of purpose, it will Defend it's Home, to NO End, but it will be peacable an kind, when encountered in the Field. Best Wishes...)))

  • drippy
    Original Author
    18 years ago

    What makes our country great is that we are entitled, by law, to diversity - and since it seems we were all created a bit differently, that's a reason to rejoice! Breezyb, I did not take Marylandmojo's comments personally - (s)he is entitled to his/her opinion, and after all, this is the Organic Gardening forum, and I DID originally ask about organic removal. However, I ultimately chickened out, and I'm not sorry a whit that I did - even with a can of Raid in my hand my knees were knocking (unnecessarily, it turned out). I am truly sorry any time I do anything that poisons the environment, but I opted to put my own safety first - one might call that selfishness, and one might be right, but it was the choice I made.

  • marylandmojo
    18 years ago

    breezyb: You might consider a decaffeinated coffee (or a medication adjustment)--you seem a little on edge.
    drippy: Hornet nests, in my mind, are unacceptable in our homes and yards--anywhere that there's danger of them stinging our family or friends (or us), even though its in defense of their nest. I happen to have been raised in the country, where bees of all sorts were (and are) a fact of life. I've dealt with Hornets nests hundreds of times in my life, so I'm not nearly as alarmed by them as those who haven't. I happen to have 10 (or so) hornet's nests (empty of Hornets, of course) in my house, that I've gathered from the wild. Years ago, I disected a Hornet's nest for a science project my daughter was doing at school--the project was displayed at the mall in our town, and won a Govenor's award. Hornets, and their nests, are quite interesting, to me. But, about 20 years ago, I also saw my mother get attacked and stung about 10 times by Hornets as she brushed against an ornamental bush in her yard, while walking by. The nest was about chest high (on her), and that's where the Hornets stung her. Even though she was tough as nails, it was still quite painful. I've been stung by Hornets about 100 times, but mostly when I was a child, and messing with their nests. I certainly know how painful Hornet stings are, and how defensive Hortnets are of their nests. I'm also aware that there are those who are allergic to bee stings, of any kind--some die from them. It makes sense, when possible, to pay attention to our homes and yards and sheds and monitor the building of Hornet's nests that would interfere with our well-being. By the way, my comment about locking up your shed for 20 years was tongue-in-cheek. Thanks for having the good sense to realize it, and not take it personally.