Here comes Howard the Heretic again to muddy further the murky waters of debate. First of all I don't believe that the experienced growers here (cough, CJ.. Richard... did Arthur chime in?) track down the parentage of every hybrid they acquire and split the differences in culture, etc. ... Impossible. No, what the experienced grower does is establish a baseline set of conditions in their greenhouse such that 90%, if not 95% of their plants are happy and then fine tune the care of the recalcitrant plants by moving them! After all, you cannot re-site your greenhouse because a single plant requires just a little less south-west sun than the GH gets at present. Ridiculous overstatement yes, but what I am reading says to the novice that they must get into the plant the individual plant in order to grow it. I submit that with a hybrid or intergeneric (and 'intergeneric' without any other qualifier always means an intergeneric of the Odontoglossinae/Oncidinae variety) using the culture appropriate for any one of the parents will result in culture that, if not perfect, at least will not kill the hybrid. And isn't that the first step? First, do no harm. Then you can work from there to figure out the minutiae. Trust me, Clara, you do not want a Jay's site for hybrids or rather, such a thing is simply not necessary. All we do is ignore what we learn at such sites anyway!!! I mean, how many of us attempt to supply 4,000fc of light for Cattleya _____________ or a 115F daytime max for Grammatophyllum ____________? No, we give the orchid what we have to give and it either likes it or it doesn't. Am I wrong? Luckily such an approach can work, just because a particular species 'likes' 4000fc and a majority of specimens were observed to be experiencing just that, often it is discovered that the very same species will do well in 2500fc. If people didn't try to grow plants in 'incorrect' conditions we wouldn't know what is ultimately possible. And no, I am not turning a corner as regards my light theories. Just observing that observing good health and growth in an orchid in ones supplied conditions usually sets the standard for care. Attempting to re-create every individual weather station report for every single plant in a collection, even a small one, in a single growing area is simply an impossible assignment. H

Thanks much for stepping forward with your valued thoughts Gents. I understand both of your points much more clearly. Digesting. Arthur, glad you can identify with this dilemma. Puzzling, isn't it? "Why?" is indeed the repetitive question. I've been fascinated by this orchid. The reward value is high; only reason I don't give up. Going to do some research upon your advise. Could give me an idea of a new more successful direction to offer the poor thing. If anyone down your way has any ideas, I would welcome their input. Didn't learn about the single species until after purchase. Interesting and again I ask "why?". Would you know of others? Could be a good path to investigate for a fresh perspective. Laughing about other forums. Good suggestion. I use other forums for research but do not post. Have seen 0 on Sanguinolenta. The "British board" is the better of the others, IMO. Their server needs speed, too slow. There are no better mentors than the growers here on GW. I can reach out when I when I lose my step and have no where else to google, read, research. I am never made to feel foolish, no matter how many times I ask the same question. I am always supported 100%. People are patient and respectful of each other. Questions are answered very quickly. Have not found that elsewhere. I'll even go back to the FAQ's here on occasion and "start from the beginning". It's a wonderful reminder of what is really important. What can I say? All of you have spoiled me :-). GW is the Rolls Royce of orchid info and growing advise. I recall a woman who used to post here. Her responses were always; "Stick the plant somewhere and forget about it". Howard also says, "Pick a spot and call it good" Sound advise taken long ago. H. I had a hot room in winter. Temps hovered 80F. You may be confusing that area with Helcia's grow area. I am the lady in Chicago living/working in the converted machine shoppe. 2 separate spaces; shoppe and apartment, 2 HVAC systems, high humidity/air and a few micro-climates. I am moving the bulk of my collection to the shoppe section of the building now...Uggh! but better for them. Semi- outdoor situation can be achieved when I open up the big garage type doors and windows, no squirrels. My compromise. Helcia's present location is already reaching 80º Day sans heating. It's the reason I am asking for advise now and concerned. Need a plan for a sick plant. Light/heat is rapidly becoming too much for the cloud forrest group to tolerate where they are. It became warm early and rapidly this year. Shoppe is still cooler; has some Oak tree protection. Most have been moved out without supplimentals installed. They are all growing and/or budding. Helcia will be last moved. I need a plan before I move it. Light usually does the trick for my sick plants. Not yet. Something else is askew. Helcia's light protest comes swiftly upon slight change. Leaves get small black spots, then yellow and fall off extremely rapidly; much like some Dracs or Made's when they get more light than they are used to; too quickly. Helcia made a bud, so what is it telling me? It may like the present temp range (upper 70's-80 days 50-55º nights) or its teasing me into false hope. It has always received a nice range. This year I did a bigger night drop via the window; earlier than usual. Took advantage of the fast changing weather. Have had good results. With regards to humidity, yes, I have some rather unique circumstances. I had some environmental issues. A friend had access to OSHA equipment through work. My hygros are not too far off. ~5 points. The electronic humifyer hygo's are far off. Ignored. The space is chronically wet; brick and concrete with city water running under the floor. Manhole cover in the shoppe. Nice place to grow. But not the source of the misery. I am able to grow a Drac out in the open, no cases, small humidifyer if the weather is dry for a time. Helcia was purchased from a well known G/H cold room, in with the Pleuros, Milts etc. They had scant info about Helcia. "grow it like a pleuro". It had a nice case of root rot when I got it. Decomposed medium/mud. Probably never completely recovered. Helcia does require a solid rest period. Hardly new growth. Flowering now is not the norm. Kept everything on the dry side this winter. Bark mix may have not been a wise choice for Helcia. Came potted in bark. I repooted into the same and a basket. Repotted to spag with a bottom layer of sponge rock a couple days ago. Hoping to entice roots to reach down for some water if I can coax some root growth. Found some dead pb's under the medium during initial repot. Found the same a couple days ago. Yes, this should be easy to grow, looking at the Baker's or Jay's, but clearly it's not in my present conditions. It's been a long battle. Observations: My description is; Phal Beliina-esque in bloom, with oncid skinny PB's and shares some habits and characteristics of Pleuros. It's an odd beauty The growth is quite unique. The new PB's grow in such a strange directional fashion that they can easily die before they are seen. They like to burrow down into the medium when they emerge or grow so low or even sideways they can't escape. The plant is clumpy and uneven. It has mature PB's growing in every direction, which hinders the new PB emergence. Have tried to manipulate them, can't be done without damaging the plant. Helcia seems to be a little like my Lycaste Cruenta and will produce a bud first and the leaf afterward. I have managed to get only 2 small new PB's all this time. 1 grew under the medium side ways and died. The other is in bud and has a similar protective grey crunchy type coat (I forget the tech name) at the bottom of the PB, like the Lycaste, not as tough/spiney. Finer, like fiberous hairs. Keeps the PB's clumped together. ____________________________________________________________________________________ I'd like to run a potential plan past the board... As I have been writing this long post a thought occurred. Possible Helcia may be day length sensitive? Could be the missed factor in the light protest/sensitivity issue? The geography is about right... What if I try day temps mid- upper 70's night 55-60º, keep it as almost as wet as the Dracs, light- 12 on -12 off in the new spag mix? Does this sound like a decent plan that could do it for Helcia? Only problem is light. What to do? Where to start? I have few leaves left and many shriveling PB's that are unable to produce successful new growth. It's also time to extend light exposure another hour. I am really scrounging for a solid direction. If I could get some decent light on it, we would both be happier. Stubborn orchid won't budge an fc. without a complete melt down. ANY input would be greatly appreciated. Clara PS. My light may be under-estimated light even in z-5. I will probably never grow outdoors again. I can clearly see the difference from z-9 outdoors, but it's the best I can offer indoors. Windows, tubes and CFL's working in tandem. I am still not confident indoors, but better. The move to the shoppe will rattle any confidence I have. Funny how a few meters can make a big difference. Thanks for the support. When I got Helcia I had to start it somewhere. It came from a dark cool house, so I started under the lowest light/heat I had. Maybe it was a mistake but it's done. Can't get him to bump happily.

That second picture with what looks like a shadow line but is actually where a shadow was and prevented the rest of the leaf from burning. Any leaf burn is permanent and cosmetic only. It will not spread. If it was too severe it would turn black and you could trim off that portion. I believe that part of the leaf is still doing some work to help the plant grow so leave it alone. As far as what kind of orchid is it - I have an idea but I'd like to see some better pictures of the p[seudobulbs. Has it flowered and if so do you have pictures?

LOL! Actually I've known a few folks who have lived that way just fine. Did it myself for a year when unemployed. However I would have to say it wasn't pleasant. It is rather extreme -- at least do 60's during the day. I could see a "heated" battle occurring over the thermostat. LOL Surprised you AVs are handling it. On to orchids.... Yes there are orchids that would likely enjoy your conditions -- with some temp modification -- especially since any lights used in a terr would raise the temps in the terr a bit. Most of the orchids would not be overjoyed with the 53 degree zone -- happier in the 60's. One question -- how hot does your place get in the summer? Many of the cool growing orchids cannot handle high summer temps. For this reason many folks who do cool growers use their basement where temps are much more consistent and easy to keep that way. Do you have really good natural light? Cymbidiums -- often large plants, they like lots of light. In summer they can handle being outdoors [provided you carefully harden them off as you would tomato plants started indoors]. They require a chilling period in winter in order to set buds. however after bud set, they generally appreciate warmer temps [at least upper 60's low 70's] to bloom. Not as large but still much larger than Sophro, would be many of the Miltonias [pansy orchids] and Odontoglossums. [Odonts would, like Cyms, be too large for you average terr -- especially when in spike] Again they tyepically need cool temps though the 53 may be a tad too low. You'd have to research this a bit more. I can't grow them as I can't maintain the cool temps. Many of the Sophronitis would still require a bit warmer temps than your 53, I think, but in a terr under lights you would likely be able to get warmer [again 60's maybe even low 70s]. you can use insulation around the back & sides of the terr to retain more of the heat given off by the lights if more heat is needed. Most Masdevallias and Draculas would be options as well. [And some of the cool growing masdies have incredibly vibrant colors!] Not sure about the Stelis or Aerangis ... A deal more research in the orchid arena is on you docket I think. Your local library should either have some orchid books or be able to get some. You might even check Amazon for "cool orchids" or "cool growing orchids" and see if any books come up. Then write down the ISBN, and ask you library to get it/them. There are of course lots of websites you could try find via a Google search I'm sure. Here's one species site to start you off .... http://www.orchidspecies.com/ And here's one vender's site -- hold on to your Wallet! http://www.andysorchids.com/ His plants aren't cheap but he has a nice variety, excellant healthy plants, and if you need help with something you've bought from him -- great to talk to and ask questions. This should give you a start on you research project! LOL