Correction-
the machine is $350, I am sure he will take $300. This thing is in nice shape. I would have to sell the Duraforce. But I dont want to sell the Duraforce for a mower that wont work as well, or doesnt have to the features of the expensive Toros.

The 22189 has a 3 speed transmission and the 22164 uses Personal Pace. Either one would last a home owner for many years. That seems low for a clean almost new mower. Why is it being sold so cheap?

can guy,

I made a second mistake. This is not a personal pace mower. I think its a 22176. This is basicly the same mower:

I dont know why it is so cheap. This thing is in great shape and runs out well. I dont think it has a BBC, but what is the difference in the Kawasaki Engines, between this and the top Kawasaki engine?

Here is a link that might be useful: Ebay for same mower

Some Kawasakis have full pressure lubrication with an oil filter. This one seems too good to be true. He is dumping a premium mower with 20 hours and a zero time engine for less than the cost of repairs.I would pass on it.

yeah maybe........ according to the website, this one has full press lubrication too.

I need a good Toro person to fill me in on the differnces in the Kawasaki engines. I mowed with this thing, and to be honest..... if I dont hear anything negative about this kawasaki engine I am gonna jump on this deal. Canguy have you got an email?

mine is nikkisixx56@yahoo.com

shoot me a line and ill let you know how it turns out.

kyle

I have the 22164 and it is a great mower. The difference between those umits is that mine does not have an oil filter, has the super recycler deck, half a gallon tank versus 1 gallon and the personal pace transmission versus the commercial 3 speed.

I suspect that the 22189 would out last mine due the proven track record but the 22164 has the commercial parts that matter the most. Fully pressured oil pump, most usable torque range and commercial grade tires.

My 22164 has performed flawlessly and is worth the $800 I spent on it. I would shy away from a $250 dollar 22189 unless it was from someone i knew cutting me a deal. Would someone sell you a 2007 Cadallic for 15000, gotta be something wrong.

Yeahh, I agree with the others - when something sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

I've got a couple of questions. Assuming your Duraforce mower is in good running condition why dump it to buy a Toro with a Kawasaki motor? Are there features on either of those machines that will make lawn mowing easier or faster?

FWIW, all the FJ180V Kawasaki engines are the same internally. I can't access the eBay link from work, but I'm guessing that version has top shroud which includes the integral fuel tank, whereas the 22189 has a small shroud with the remote 1-gallon tank on a separate bracket - no difference in the engine itself. Also, if the 22164 does not have the oil filter, that's no big deal either. You'll notice a small plate held on by two or three (I forget) bolts, where the oil filter adapter would go. You can buy the adapter for little money and bolt it in place of the block-off plate, and you then have a filter. Again, the engine is the same internally either way, and has a real oil pump with pressurized lube system (for what that's worth). Other differences might be that some have variable throttles with a choke, whereas other have a fixed-open throttle with primer bulb. Still no difference internally, though. These engines are big and heavy, but they run _very_ strong with lots of power and good refinement. I had one on a Snapper and was very pleased with it. Early ones had some issues with head gaskets, but those were corrected early in the production run before these mowers would have been built.

I have a toro 22189 commercial bagger. Anyone know if I can just mulch without the bag? Manual says bag must be on at all times.