Hello Gayze

Keeping the humidity high will certainly help your phal put out the needed roots. A little fertilizer may help, too - just under dose so you do not do more damage. Sorry to say, most people have to kill their first orchid or two (or four) before they can figure out what they did wrong. I cut and paste my previous post if you haven't read it in the phal culture forum below. Sorry for the duplication if you have already read it. By the way, if your leaves are dying,I would cut back the stem if you haven't already. Why make the plant work harder to keep the stem alive? I would cut it regardless of buds. The older elaves usually do die off, bbut it sounds suspicious when tey all die at once. You may want to try your hand at another orchid if this one is beyond repair.

From previous post:
They do enjoy relatively consistent humidity (around 50-80%) and bright, indirect light, as in early morning sun, back from a sunny window or under a shadey tree. For regular care, I like to repot in 50-50 sphagnum moss and bark since I personally have a problem with one over the other. (Wait until the flowers are off and it seems dormant.) Bark seems to let them dry out too quickly when you least expect it while pure moss seems to waterlog and never lets the roots breathe. I feed weekly and weakly with a regular orchid fertilzer or very dilute Miracle Grow in the summer while in active growth. To initiate bloom, I keep them slightly drier than normal and about 50 F at night for about 2 weeks and slightly more sun (still not burning the leaves). It is easy to do this in the fall and spring. Once bloom is initiated, by an upward curving stem, I change fertilizers to a high potasium and low(er) nitrogen formula. I like to keep the humidity as high as possible, which is easy in the summer but always a challenge in the winter. A slight spray from RO water seems to do the trick every morning. As a general rule, only let them flower after they have successfuly made a new leaf or two. Never ever let water accumulate in the apex (center) of the plant since rot will ensue. When in doubt, hold water, most phals die4 from excessive water rather than not enough. They have no psuedobulbs like other orchids so they cannot dessicate, but inspect the medium several times before you decide to water. Make sure the moss isn't compacting and make sure the roots are well aerated.

Thank you, bradarmi.

I'll definitely set up a humidity tray, and will cut back the stem the rest of the way. I wasn't sure if it was okay to do so, even though the bloom has ended.

I put pictures on my blogger site:
http://strongerthndirt.blogspot.com/2007/03/ill-phalaenopsis.html

if anyone's interested in how the damage appears.

Thank you for the great info ... I'll check out the phal culture forum, too.

You are growing it pretty dark-- 2 feet from a window that has a curtain across it in a weather pattern that you specifically say is short on sun.

The point of mentioning this is that your room is also on the cold side (for phals)-- 68F

AND you are misting it daily and watering twice a week even tho it has hardly any roots

That says to me COLD,DARK,WET.

Cold, dark and wet is a sure-fire formula for killing lots of plants, especially orchids, and probably especially phals, which succumb easily to rots. If you want to grow rot, that's the formula-- cold, dark, wet. Misting under these conditions makes it even worse.

IMO, you will not succeed with this plant unless you change the formula to Warm Light, a pretty drastic change from the way things are. If you don't have an emotional investment in it, let it go or give it away. I get the feeling that is what you really want to do.

If you want this plant to live as a memento of your mother, it will take a real commitment on your part to give it what *it* needs, not what is easy and convenient to do.

I'd suggest you repot into a very small clay pot filled with only sphag.

Definitely cut the spike clear off, but your will probably keep losing leaves til you get some roots (unlikely in cold, dark, wet)

Invest in some liquid rooting hormone like Hormex, and swish your plant around in a dilute solution of it, maybe "float" it there for half an hour.

Instead of watering on a schedule, do the old finger trick of sticking your finger in to feel the moisture an inch or two down. You do this when the top of the sphag is crunchy. Then either water just enough to moisten the crunchy sphag, or wait until the middle sphag is barely moist. Water with a dilute solution of the hormex, and let it drip down those miniscule new roots. Just a little water at first, enough to moisten the top of the sphag.

With almost no roots, it doesn't use much water.

A lot of house plants live in near darkness, on interior walls, etc. But most orchids will succumb to rot in these conditions, so you will have to give it a brighter situation.

You say you moved it away from the window because it sunburned. It didn't necessarily sunburn from too much light, but possibly from too much light too fast. You need to acclimate a plant to more light by giving it a little more light at a time over a period of a week or two. And you should start doing that as well. Your plant will notice the extra light and respond to it.

If you have a heating pad or something similar, I would set it on that to provide the warmth your room is lacking. Again, it will respond in a positive way to the warmth.

If you can provide a lot more warmth and light for it, it may be possible to save it. Without both of those, I am not optimistic. Sorry I don't have more hope to offer you.

The stem is called a flower spike. In an article in last months's AOS magazine, phalaenopsis growers recommend a medium of 80% fine bark and 20% sphagnum moss.

Many articles recommend a sheer curtain in the window, but this is for areas of the country that have much more sun than the northern part of the country. In upstate New York the sun is much too weak for a curtain. If your phal is sitting two feet back from the window it should be okay. Not enough light and too much water will rot a phal in no time.

Watering twice a week is a bit much. A good way to guage whether or not a plant needs water is to use the skewer method. I swear by this method. Get a shishkabob skewer (available at the grocery store), trim it down, and put it into medium and leave it there. The next time you think the phal needs water touch the skewer to your lip, cheek, or the back of your hand. If it's wet, don't water. If it's almost dry, water.

While they can be repotted when in spike or bloom, if the plant is under stress it's wise to remove the flower spike and allow the plant to recover.

Hello, mehitabel, and thank you for responding. Perhaps I miscommunicated some things, and will try to clarify.

1. If I "really wanted to let it go or give it away", I wouldn't be here trying to save it, now, would I? :-)

2. Regarding temperature, "about 68" was an estimate. After reading your post, I went to another room and ripped an indoor thermometer off the wall and set it up by the Phal. It's currently 74 degrees right there (and 0 with 20 below windchills outside ... which is another reason the plant is moved 2 feet back from the window). It gets *warmer* at night (to the point that I personally, being a female of middle age , am tossing off sheets and sweating, because other family members crank up the thermostat. I'll stop complaining about the lack of sleep and wasted fuel for the sake of my Phalaenopsis from now on. ::grins::)

Everything I've read online and in books, up till this forum, anyway, states that Phal's like normal household temperatures, and I've been trying to follow what the "pros" suggest, honestly. The book I have here in my lap (Orchids for Dummies by Steven A Frowine) states: "Moth orchids do well in medium to low light, similar to other houseplants like African violets. They also thrive in moderate humidity of 50 percent or so and average daytime temparatures of 70* F to 80* F during the day and about 65* F at night". Is none of this true?

Even though I was apparently guessing too low at the 68* average temp, it seems that we're actually quite a bit warmer here than what Frowine suggests. And we have more light ... the only thing lacking is the humidity part.

3. It's not a "curtain". It's a "clear gauze" curtain ... more like a veil that filters the sunlight coming in through the *south* window, but it does let in the sun. One of those gauzey things some windows have "underneath" the curtains that filter the sun when you pull the actual curtains back to the side. It's actually the sunniest spot in the house. Outside of moving, I'm not sure how it can get more sunlight. To move it closer to the window would subject it to cold, and when the leaf was sunburned, I'm fairly sure it actually was sunburned ... it felt hot, and developed a clear spot in the center that turned black. We had a very warm December and January, and it was getting quite hot in that spot.

The reason it's been "dark" currently is that this is upstate NY and it's early March and most of our days have been overcast. There's some sun today, however, for a change. I've put in my bid for more sunshine with the universe ;-) -- haven't gotten a reply yet. I'll try to set up more artificial light there for it, though, at your suggestion. I've met resistance from the gentleman who shares this room with me on previous suggestions of that course of action, but perhaps hearing that an expert suggested more light will shift the line of thinking.

4. "About twice a week" means that I stick my finger into the growing medium and water when it feels dry -- which in this case turns out to be "about twice a week". I do know that the room is low in humidity ... thus the misting in the mornings, the air's very dry here.

There does seem to be a great deal of confusion out there as far as information for beginners. Misting in the mornings was the advice of an orchid care website, on the topic of a room that had very low humidity. Have I been wrong to do this? I honestly don't recall which website at this point ... I've read so many of them in effort to help this one plant.

5. As I said above, I checked the roots this morning, there is no rot. There *was* rot due to the way the florist originally potted the plant, but that was eliminated in December when I repotted in orchid mix. I had it out of the mix this morning (for the first time since repotting) and though there is no new root growth under the surface, there is no rot, and what "old" roots are there are completely dry. The roots that were still living (two halfway decent sized ones) after the thing was first hit by the rot earlier on look pretty much the same as they did back then ... still green/living tissue there, though perhaps not the healthiest roots on the planet. But no rot ... the plant's not being over watered. If anything, it's too dry.

6. As mentioned, there are two tiny buds growing from the base of the plant (see the photos in my blog, above) that I believe are new roots starting, at long last. So, though the leaves are suffering, the roots seem to be trying to make a comeback.

Anyway, I'll do my best to implement as many of your suggestions as I can, and I do appreciate that you've taken time to help me. I truly do wish to save this plant, and in fact fell in love with it, despite its problems, and would love to "get good enough at this" to have more Phals in the future.

Thank you!

Hi, Gayze. Sorry for not assuming you were dead earnest about saving your plant.

I don't want to get into an argument with your book, or answer "yes" or "no" to your question "Is he wrong?". I haven't read the book, and don't know the author, so have no opinion on his advice. If you feel good with following what he says, that's fine by me.

You may want to check out some specialist vendor's websites for additional points of view on growing phals. I'd suggest Bedford Orchids and Big Leaf Orchids. Both have good discussion of the balance of factors needed for phals to thrive. Bedford discusses the evolution of his thinking about light.

I don't blame you for being unhappy with my advice. But just a couple of points:

74 is inside the range your author gives of 70-80. 68 is not. That 6 degrees is very big to a plant, even to humans without clothing. I didn't say crank up the heat-- I know that's expensive and even uncomfortable for some people. But I did think the plant needed to be kept a little warmer. If you can't keep it warmer, you have to keep it *drier*. It's the balance of factors that's important. If one is in short supply, you have to compensate by changing the others.

The rule for light is that light is cut in half each foot away from the source. At two feet from a window you are getting 1/4 of the light available at that window, already probably cut at least in half by your gauze curtain, so maybe 1/8 or less of what is hitting the glass is getting to your plant. On a gloomy day, your plant is not getting *low* light, it's getting essentially what I would call *no* light. Probably on a sunny day, too.

The one mistake almost all of us here acknowledge having made as newbies was to take quite literally statements about "low light" and "bright indirect light", and not give enough light. It took me a year to figure that out, I was hoping to save you that year.

I believe my caution about *cold, wet, dark* being a recipe for disastrous rots, was right on the money, and I would have been remiss not to say that if I answered your query at all. I have seen coolish, wet periods in August bring on rot that went from a small spot on a leaf to destroying an entire pseudobulb in just two days. You want to avoid the conditions that start that kind of problem.

You have a plant you described as being on the brink of dying, with no roots, and losing leaves. If it's better off than that, great. If not, it needs the best of everything you can give it to make it thru.

Hi, mehitabel,

Oh, don't worry, I'm not unhappy with your advice, it was just that I don't think I communicated clearly/exactly enough and thought I would clarify. Certain points didn't quite apply, others did, and I ran to get the thermometer, etc, to check specifics on things I apparently wasn't clear about. I do believe your "cold, wet, dark" advice is a very good precaution ... it just didn't quite apply here, and in fact even less than I had thought, as according to the thermometer it's quite a bit warmer in that spot than I'd thought it was. Since, I've tied back the gauze mesh curtain, and moved the Phal closer to the window (by about eight inches ... I switched with several other plants, and hope the fact that it's so cold outside won't cause any harm). I've also incorporated orchid126's skewer advice for water judging. I've removed the spent flower spike.

I truly do believe that part of the problem is that it is *too* dry, including the roots. There are, as I've said, viable roots ... though not a lot of them and not robust ones, the two "main" roots of the plant are still alive, and it appears to be forming new air roots.

Was searching for my son's marbles to make a humidity tray, but have since discovered that the marbles vanished into the black hole he calls a bedroom ages ago, so will have to find another source of materials.

Part of the reason I'd posted is that the plant sat "status quo" since December when I'd transplanted it, not "doing a heck of a lot", but not dying back any farther. The "orchid mix" I planted it in seemed to dry out more than I was comfortable with (which is why testing with a finger led to watering about twice a week), but the plant seemed to be hanging in there. Then I noticed the two tiny "root buds" starting, was tickled pink, but dismayed when two days later I started seeing signs of stress in the leaves.

I thought I'd, in my neophyte way, managed to "fix" the plant (when I saw the root tips starting), and was crestfallen when the leaves began to suffer. I decided then to go a step farther than websites and books, therefore, and come here to seek advice.

Thank you, by the way, for the other site recommendations. I already have Big Leaf bookmarked, but Bedford is a new one for me.

I sense you have gardening experience. If you feel your Phal is too dry, you are probably right, and should trust your judgment. I also live in NY and my house is extremely dry because of the heat.

The mix you used is probably not holding any moisture. If the mix is drying out that fast, the plant is too dry. Try soaking the pot, once a week, in a bowl of water. Just let it sit for about 1/2 hr and check the mix in a few days. You might have to do that each week until Spring arrives.

Another suggestion would be to place some sphag on top of the mix to help hold in moisture. You can mist the sphag each day (if that makes you feel better). Try the soaking (others may disagree), but use your judgment. You don't want the plant staying too wet, but you don't want it bone dry.

Jane

Hi again, Gayze. It's not surprising that your orchid stalled a bit. A lot of plants barely hold on in winter indoors, much less one that has been set back.

As the light strengthens and the days lengthen, it will sense that and start responding. Our days are much brighter here now. Yours will start soon.

As for bookmarking Big Leaf-- how long before you start buying some of those goodies?

Good luck.

Jane and Mehitabel,

Thanks again, I'm glad I stopped in here, lots of good ideas to try to help this plant survive. I've picked up some supplementary lighting today ... the space is limited, but have now got a little "directed spotlight" that I've put a grow bulb in and will use it to supplement the lighting till the sun can do its job a little better. I've also picked up some sphagnum moss (and made the mistake of touring the greenhouses at the garden center where I spotted several really nice Phals in full bloom ... they stayed there, LOL, but it was tough!) I'll try Jane's suggestions about how to get enough moisture and humidity to the plant without actually misting the leaves themselves.

Big Leaf is definitely temptation at the click of a mouse. I keep telling myself I have to see if I can keep this one going before I give in to that temptation, though. :-) It's a great site for daydreaming, though!

Thank you all so very much!

Watering bark can be tricky. Did you soak the bark thoroughly for several hours before you repotted the plant? This allows the water to reach the core of the bark. Bark that is allowed to go too dry will not absorb water easily, the exterior of the bark will shed the water and it will not reach the core. You must soak the bark thoroughly when you water, just pouring some through is not enough. And then the bark should not be allowed to go completely dry before you water again.

Thank you, orchid 126, for your continuing help. Yes, the bark was soaked overnight, in fact ... it's a mix put out by Schultz (which I've since learned a certain percentage of orchid enthusiasts have not been all that happy with). My little shishka-skewer is still wet, but next time I water, I'll be sure to give the plant a thorough soaking before letting it drain.

While it does look like the oldest leaf is liable to die back, the new little "root nodules" continue to grow, so I haven't lost hope.

Hang in there, the plant will be okay!