Roundup says it RIGHT there on front page.... they are a Monstano company.

Can't trust anything for you garden unless it's certified organic.

Kimmsr..... Sounds like a lot of copy n pastes from last replier nc-cm

I know poison control doesn't want a law suit, but they don't claim to know it all and he told me anyone to phone they will tell them the same as they told me about roundup. Poison control GIVES FACTS! Even roundup claims their product is not nontoxic and has dangerous chemicals in it. Go to their website to see it....

They told me likely plants will shrivel and/or be dead in a couple days... but doesn't matter... it locks onto the plants and soil. If it gets in water ways.... IT INSTANTLY KILLS FISH, FROGS, AND WATER PLANT LIFE...... yeah.. so that being so diluted.... hmmmmmm must be safe for humans>>>?????????????

I've phoned poison control maybe 8 times... most times what I thought was terrible bad they told me it wasn't and proved right..... if they say it's life threatening.... trust them!!! It's what their job is to help save lives.
I've even called them on a non threatening issue once for a friend out of Country who had no money to see a doctor and they gave me all kinds of advice to give to her knowing she's out of Country etc......

Everything I've read.... keep all pesticides out of gardens.... nothing is safe with toxins..... only Organic things like baking soda and vinegar etc.....

PS... I also discussed it with poison control on the claims I read of people claiming safe to drinking it from 40+ years ago....... he told me all of the chemicals in it involved with the glyphosates has changed and what newly is added to the bases they sell will kill you today with the smallest sip of drinking it.

He was super clear it is unsafe and earged me to rid all plants due to roundup!!!!!!!

Phone them and see what they have to say for yourselves..... I'm off the internet for rest of morning to 3 days.... work and sleep.

Here's my take on Roundup. I had some drift a couple years ago from a farm field. This was not my regular garden and is less protected by distance and barriers. Some [not all] of my cantaloupes and watermelons turned yellow on the tips. After about a couple weeks, you probably couldn't find damage, and they went on to make a tremendous crop...one crenshaw cantaloupe made a 22 pound melon. 2 watermelon plants made about 120+ of melons. ...each

Now, Roundup that is sprayed near another plant with some getting on the ground may harm other plants for a foot or so away. Drift mist can go further but do less severe damage.
It takes about 4 or 5 days or a little more to start turning plants yellow.

Nonfarmers can buy the 41% at farm stores. Directly applied to Canada Thistle at the right stage it is a real help when you have it badly.

I wouldn't eat the green parts of sprayed plants or anything nearing maturity. Otherwise IMO it isn't a disaster in the long run.

This post was edited by wayne_5 on Sun, May 4, 14 at 10:36

First off, was it actually Round-up or just a different glyphosate brand? Not that it makes any difference but people often rag on Monsanto and Round-up when it was actually one of many other manufacturers. People lose all credibility when they mistakenly go after one company just because that is the flavour of the month issue.

The vapour from a glyphosate product will not kill a plant. Just because you smell it does not mean the product has gone into your nostrils. It has to be in its liquid form (droplets) and it has to actually touch the plant. If the liquid does touch a plant it will likely die unless the plant is tolerant (Round-up Ready for example) or the amount was not sufficient to cause harm.

If one is an extremest, then the only recommendation I can give is to throw away all your plants/soil and start from scratch. As an aside, if you eat bread in North America then there is a good chance you are eating a food that was sprayed with a glyphosate product just prior to harvest.

Lloyd

edited to say a glyphosate product v. glyphosate.

This post was edited by pt03 on Sat, May 3, 14 at 17:02

"For the most part, the surfactants are more dangerous than the glyphosate itself when it comes to oral ingestion unless you're using the really strong 41% stuff (no home gardener or "mow and blow" maintenance crew would have this). " Uh ... you can buy 41% generic glyphosate in WalMart's garden department.

And yes, the surfactants will kill you or at least make you very, very sick if you drink the concentrate or even the mix. So will dish detergent and shampoo.

RoundUp now has diquat ... that's moderately toxic and it stinks.

=============
Flo - Calm down a bit, OK. Don't let the anti-chemical hysteria get to you.

Everything I've learned in past.... you NEVER use pesticides to kill weeds in a garden nor use that soil for it can kill you. I don't know where you learned that, but it is not what I learned in landscaping school. Using glyphosate to "knock down" weeds before the real crop is planted is a very common technique. If it were lethal to eat things grown in that soil, we'd have noticed a by now.

Anyone know further info and if they've used this product in their veggie garden? I have used generic glyphosate in and around my vegetables for years. I'm still typing to you and have not grown a third eye.

========
However, if you could SMELL the herbicide, it wasn't just glyphosate. Glyphosate has no particular odor to it.

The BRAND NAME Roundup, on the other hand, is not just glyphosate any more. They changed the formula to add a short-lived, quick-acting herbicide, Diquat dibromide, so gardeners could see fast results. (glyphosate can take a week or two to kill plants). It is a "dessicant" - the plants quickly shrivel and the gardener feels they have accomplished something. And the glyphosate, in the meantime, kills the roots and prevents regrowth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diquat
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glyphosate

Poison control may have mistaken your conversation and thought you said the concentrate spilled on soil - that has to be disposed of or remediated. The diluted working herbicide is not a problem if it's sprayed on soil.

Call the apartment management and ask them for the EXACT brand name of the herbicide that was used. When you know that, then you can get better advice, and you can find a copy of the label information. Many groundskeepers say "Roundup" when they are using something else, even something that has no glyphosate.

Since they lied to you, imo you should contact an advocacy organization against this sort of thing and see if they will help you to sue for damages. Get the Poison Control statement in writing, and take dated photos of your lost crop. There could be some class action lawsuits out there you could join in, and it is time that something like this be done by many of us.

I am considering advocating against the use of such products in my town. My neighbor uses it every spring and makes me sick. He claims he does not, but I can smell it. Luckily his property is usually downwind from mine.

This thread is too funny!

Go ask a geologist, they know a thing or two about soil....

You people could be worrying about BETTER things.

Like nc-crn (who is a voice of reason in the sometimes hysterical world here of the-sky-is-falling) said the plants will either die or since they are so young, if they live, consumption of the food at harvest would be no issue for most folks.

But you have to do what will make you comfortable. If you can't be comfortable eating the food then there is no point it letting it grow, right? I'd remove the plants, mix in some fresh compost and replant. But if you prefer building a whole new bed with new soil that's your option too. The point is to make you comfortable with the food grown in your garden.

It is a shame it happened but it wasn't a personal attack by Monsanto nor an industry plot to kill you nor is it the end of the world as we know it. So keep it in perspective and make your decision based on what you think is the right thing to do for you.

Good luck.

Dave

Guys... I'm not at all saying the landscapers tried to kill me etc.... the apt manager is a total ass hole... a lot of people complain about him in general and what he's said is stupidness. He also said they didn't need to warn me because my patio isn't a garden..... but everyone knows I am the gardener and patio is always filled with plants and I had permission to do all of this.
The new landscapers ... only 1 speaks English out of about 30 working here. And most workers only care to do what they are told to get paid and probably all or most didn't know the hazards... and the landscaper manager told me repeatedly... he is only doing what he's been told to do.

I'm distraught about this.... and surely most of you could identify how I feel about it..... I worked hard and bought the best soil, seeds everything.... my plants are my "babies" and give me food.

There's many types of roundup sold... they have the blue container. I saw it... I asked him to show me the product in the container they are using.... it cost hundreds for what looked like a gallon of it.

Poison control told me it doesn't matter which type.. they all are bad and not meant for a garden with plants regardless if food. It sticks on the leaves. For certain I have to throw out all of my radishes... over 100. I have about 40 pea and bean plants...... I'm just not happy.

You may not like this, but please recognize that IâÂÂm not attacking anyone here. Now that you know what has been done, assess the damage from some distance.

First, you have to be clear about where you have drawn the line about chemicals in your life. There are two parts to that. One, what will you eat without knowing what has been done to the growing site, the plant in the ground, and the harvested food. Two, what is your limit for what you personally do with your food growing system.

These parts have to be different because there is too much unknown about the first limit. So you wash your other-grown food well even if you have been told it is untainted. You are willing to eat other-grown food because you try to believe those liars/saints when they say theyâÂÂre growing organically.

But you donâÂÂt know, and so you understand that you are eating some things that donâÂÂt meet your personal limits. ThatâÂÂs a risk you take because you have to.

On the second point, you know that if you get your tainted soil tested by a lab with all sorts of frighteningly expensive equipment, they will not be able to find the smallest trace of glyphosate in your soil or in your foods because there is none in your soil or foods. Your food is still organically safer than anything put out by a factory farmer and you know it. YouâÂÂre PO'd that someone would screw up what you have tried very carefully to do, but it's not a crime, not the end of all things. ItâÂÂs a bump in the road.

So, hereâÂÂs the Dear Abby test: are you better off eating your own ethically grown food or are you better off eating food from the store grown for profit by strangers who swear it is all good stuff?

Your health will not be harmed in any way. You know implicitly that repeated exposure to these chemicals is undeniably (that doesnâÂÂt stop some people from denying it!) bad, but nothing you have growing is in any way going to contribute to that exposure. Absolutism is only going to harm your self if it causes you to lose better food than you can buy anywhere.

Listen to your bean plants.
If they die, you got drift. If they live, you're home free.

I agree with cold-weather (above). Do you trust what others have grown more than what you have grown, when what you have grown might not have even gotten serious drift from the spraying?

Do you live in the US? If so, and you're not an absolute stickler about organics, and I mean stickler, like not even a dab of Hellmann's Mayo, then you're eating food that was grown on roundup treated soil.

BTW, that wasn't cut and paste from nc-cm.

The new landscapers ... only 1 speaks English out of about 30 working here. And most workers only care to do what they are told to get paid and probably all or most didn't know the hazards... and the landscaper manager told me repeatedly... he is only doing what he's been told to do.

This you can do something about.

Find your State's version of the EPA and file a complaint, expressing concern that the workers aren't trained to use what they are using, and that they might not be getting the safety information they need.

Give them the name of the apartments, the name of the management company, and the date of the incident.

Poison control told me it doesn't matter which type.. they all are bad and not meant for a garden with plants regardless if food. Poison control's staff needs better training. An insecticide or herbicide's label tells EXPLICITLY what the interval from use to harvest must be.

Testing... geesh... I have a reply but website keeps saying I'm cussing and I am not

Lordy... I re-read it 4 times... no cuss words and I have it copied and I even rewrote some words... still won't go through. It's like 4 big paragraphs.

Ok so cold..... I know about organic foods... you must be certified... I am not going to re-write what I had already took the time with 20 minutes to do to help you understand the farming market.
Some other day.... I'm not wasting my last 2 hours on day off to do this... sorry. I tried.

Thanks all for the great suggestions contacting epa etc... but I already know epa never cares and works with the bad guys.

Another user spoke of a group gaining on these people... heck not every body is aware... but needs to be educated and consider others.

Gotta go for now.... thanks all for your support. I have some bones left over from some meat I cooked for my dog to give to the bad comment people getting a wise arse etc... all yours... my gift.

PSS... truly thank you.... I'm just in a rush... much to do tonight before sleep and work .... will share what I tried to write maybe Monday.... some of my words may of came out wrong... no waste of time...

WOW!! As my dad used to say.....'a little knowledge is a dangerous thing'.

Glyphosate - the active ingredient in RoundUp - is the most studied chemical pesticide on the planet and has been for decades. I cannot believe a poison control center would be that ill-informed about such a common substance. If that was the primary toxic material resource in MY community, I'd be extremely concerned.

nc-crn is one of the most well-informed members of this forum and the information he/she provides you can take to the bank. Nothing in their first post was the slightest bit inaccurate or without significant documented evidence to back it up.

For what its worth, I am including a link to EXTOXNET, which is the primary pesticide resource and a cooperative effort by 5 major land grant university extension services. The information contained in their pesticide profiles is based on independent scientific testing. While I have linked to the complete glyphosate profile, I am exerting the pertinent info on acute toxicity:

â¢Acute toxicity: Glyphosate is practically nontoxic by ingestion, with a reported acute oral LD50 of 5600 mg/kg in the rat. The toxicities of the technical acid (glyphosate) and the formulated product (Roundup) are nearly the same.

â¢Fate in humans and animals: Glyphosate is poorly absorbed from the digestive tract and is largely excreted unchanged by mammals. At 10 days after treatment, there were only minute amounts in the tissues of rats fed glyphosate for 3 weeks [98]. Cows, chickens, and pigs fed small amounts of glyphosate had undetectable levels (less than 0.05 ppm) in muscle tissue and fat. Levels in milk and eggs were also undetectable (less than 0.025 ppm). Glyphosate has no significant potential to accumulate in animal tissue.

As to eating plants somehow contaminated by RoundUp, most will be dead long before you would be able to harvest them. And for those that receive only a glancing blow - not enough to do any significant damage to the plant - they would not contain sufficient quantities of the chemical to make any difference.

Here is a link that might be useful: EXTOXNET profile on glyphosate

Excellent post gardengal48.

Guys... I'm not at all saying the landscapers tried to kill me etc....

Flo - My comments about that were not directed at you rather at some of the early comments from others in response to your original post. Yes we do understand and we do sympathise.

Dave

I'm convinced the hysterical people just want to be hysterical and there is no amount of logic or reasoning that will deter them from their path. I'm also convinced that attempting to reason with these folks is a colossal waste of bandwidth.

I will admit it can be very entertaining reading though.

Lloyd

I don't think this guy is hysterical, I can understand that when one has worked hard at producing some organic veggies from scratch it is very frustrating that a bunch of idiots ruin it in a minute, and then nobody cares.

As for drinking a glass of round up ! It's pure BS ! Telling that and expecting someone to believe it is like telling someone imbecile ! How stupid must one be to swallow that !

As for the short term effect : my italian neighbor has a garden made of gravel. He usually tolerate the weeds but because he needs money he's now renting his place when he's in Italy. So he put round up on the gravel to have it look good. One year later, my Oleander trees growing between our gardens still have white leaves. Thank you round up !

Of course I don't eat oleander, it would kill me by itself even if organic ;-)

My point is, the effect is longer than I thought.

And I'm also pissed off at this Italian guy.

I just think that all these chemicals should not be sold to non farmers. Using all that crap for frivolous trivialities as good looking lawn is IMO very stupid.

Francoise, Do you know that it was plain Roundup that was applied on the gravel? There are some more persistent herbicides.

This post was edited by wayne_5 on Tue, May 6, 14 at 10:03

I can't think of the names right now, but they sell some very persistent herbicides for things like gravel driveways etc - it isn't roundup.

"... Glyphosate is poorly absorbed from the digestive tract and is largely excreted unchanged... moderately persistent in soil
...slightly toxic to wild birds...
It is extensively metabolized by some plants, while remaining intact in others..."

One could take bits and pieces and not really see a clear picture of its safety.
Not 100%.
I would not be very happy if someone mistook my address for another and started spraying near my garden. I would not condemn it, or start over. I would possibly post a concern. Watch for leaf damage.
My neighbor had a pest control pull up and start un-packing and it was out of character...wrong address, wrong street. Not home but with 3 children under 5, i stopped them and corrected the mistake by looking at the work order.

It is unfortunate that the management did not inform tenants of the spraying so those concerned could seek cover, shut windows, move some plants or cover them from any overspray.
If container plants are not doused directly and showing no sign of suffering and young plantings...i would not be horribly concerned. But i would ask/insist that future spraying of anything be posted for you and your neighbors.
Last weekend i sprayed the forest edge with a garlic/hot pepper mix and diatomaceous earth and a bit dry around my hostas wearing a dust mask. Non windy day and told my neighbor what it was. (same neighbor that thought my seed starting tomatoes in the basement window were a drug crop).
Use communication skill without exclamation punctuation to get your concerns dealt with. You may have support in your community. Don't diss your local services that may support your rights to be informed about certain chemicals sprayed without being informed.

Yesterday all but one of my radish containers the leaves were yellow and brown... not every radish plant but over half. The radishes are between 3-7 weeks old and all were very healthy looking a few days ago and watered well. I threw them all away and ridded the soil. It was heart breaking... I lost MANY meals.

My snow pea and bean plants so far I don't see any harm. I still don't know if I should throw them out even listening to experiences from one his pulled through and ate it.
It's still early... I can still start brand new and get some peas.

I spoke to management yesterday and she told me they will send a letter to everyone before any more sprayings occur.... they won't pay me for the damages. I convinced her to allow to replace all the pine straw directly at my unit... not sure if I mentioned it but it's a total fire hazard and meets up to my patio and she admitted one apt complex she worked for it caught fire burning the place. geez... she kept saying no for mulch until that slipped out of her mouth!!! And I had to pay for the mulch too..... $15 bucks so far... might need more... I'm waiting for them to remove it. I've got a hundred words on the tip of my tongue to call these people... nothing nice.
I can't afford to move at all and it's extremely hard to find a place to live in this city and it's very expensive to live here.

Thanks all for the comments and support.

I would have taken them to small claims court or do something... anything I could if they ruined all of my pepper. egg plant and tomato plants... plus tons of flowers and other fruits I started. I was seriously lucky I had most things indoor since it was 40 degrees and to be 40 that night and working.. I didn't take them outside. I have over 20 pepper plants and you all know how long that takes... started them in January. Anyways... I'm just glad they were safe.

Federal testing of American made pesticides routinely finds toxic ingredients not on the label.

That doesn't surprise me bboy. I've never worked for a chemical company before so I don't know their procedures and how they could get away with it.

Sleevendog... most people suspect people growing something illegal if they're into gardening... happens all the time and I've heard so many stories homes getting raided due to neighbors thinking they're growing something illegal.

Maintenance comes in our apts every so often for water heater checks etc... I think it's mainly to spy. Plus I've seen them go into other apts and not leave a note they were in there. I told the neighbors about it. Well, I don't smoke it or grow it.. I quit it many years ago.. I don't like it anymore. Well, they're all use to seeing about 100 garden plants of mine. I don't think they're suspicious of me at least any longer.
I bought that dirmatous earth stuff... my dog is allergic to mites really bad... I can't use it indoors again. For 2 days I kept inhaling it on the carpets. It seemed to help my dog out though.

"The information in this profile may be out-of-date. It was last revised in 1996. EXTOXNET no longer updates this information, but it may be useful as a reference or resource."

Why cite a 1996 EXTOXNET document when discussing the health properties that are known for glyphosate today?

Here is a very recent published scientific paper (the highlighting is not mine):

http://www.ichnfm.org/library/GMOglyphosate-residues-in-animals-and-humans.pdf

Here is a link that might be useful: link for above

I have a similar issue here in israel. my organic public food garden has been affected by spraying next to it. i asked the gardner who sprayed the weeds not to spray there as it got to all my plants in the garden (2 gardens opposite each other). that was 2 weeks ago, i have been giving the plants and soil compost tea and beneficial bacterial innoculum to try and mitigate the damage, most of the plants went into flowering (might be the season here but i sense the nearing death has something to do with it). today i saw the gardner spraying in the same location again! he is completly ignorant and has no sense of what he's doing (working without proper gear in a childrens play area where they were running around bear footed eating plants that were later seen to be affected! we live in a large kibbutz (community) and all of my warnings and pleas are falling on death ears. i am not knowledgeable regarding the law but there must be a law against deliberately spraying a mix of toxic chemicals (roundup + two other harsher mixes) on our food and gardens. i dont know what to do. any advice or help is much needed.
thanks,
itai

They told me likely plants will shrivel and/or be dead in a couple days... but doesn't matter... it locks onto the plants and soil. If it gets in water ways.... IT INSTANTLY KILLS FISH, FROGS, AND WATER PLANT LIFE...... y

It is not Glyphosate that kills the fish & frog, it is the oil that lets the poison stick to the plant leaf that kills the fish & frogs.

Go to a farm chemical store & they will show you a spray for steams & ponds, with no oils.

This product has been on the market for at least 20 years.

jolj, please, what is the name of this product that you recommend? Thank you.

Imazapyr is one such herbicide that is considered safe to use around streams, rivers and ponds and tidal estuaries.

I do not have the band name here, it is at my work, where they use it in a drain ditch.

I can get you the name Monday night.

I have not used it in many years, as I do not do landscape maintenance any more.

But gg48 Has never gave me bad advise, in all the years here on Gardenweb.

So Imazapyr is as good as anything I have.

Since this was posted the World Health Organization has labeled glyphosate as a carcinogen.

Imazapyr along with any glyphosate product and many other synthetic herbicides are not acceptable to an organic grower.

Reassurance by non organic growers that poisons are not al that bad does little to reassure someone that is an organic grower and it does no good to refer to us as hysterical.

kimmq is kimmsr

As a organic gardener we should know & understand how these poisons work, just for problems like the poster.

No everyone has a 200-2000 foot safe zone around their garden.

I know I am blessed to have a ten acre pine forest on two side of my garden, but not everyone is as lucky.

So I read up on the stuff & talk to people who use it & that helps me to understand what I am facing. Yelling the sky is falling will not help anyone.

Kimmq do you have a link to W.H.O.?

First off, Rondup is odorless so it was something else (could be something in addition to the Roundup or they did not use Roundup at all). Next there are more than one "Roundup" - regular, extended, and Max Control. The extended and Max Control are the types that prevents anything from growing there for awhile (this would be very bad for a garden!). What a horrible way to name products - like having ice cream and ice cream extended with rat poison!

Anyway I am of the opinion that glyphosphate is not very toxic. It is inactivated in soil and breaks down quickly (in healthy soil anyway). However if you are growing organically - it's not anymore.

If you water (rinsing off the leaves) the plants immediately after they spray, then you can save them.

However, since I think they actually spraying something else - with a strong odor, I would ask the apartment complex to replace everything! Threaten to sue or report pesticide use violations.

Oh - there are strict regulations for pesticide applicators - check in your State. They probably violated something by doing this. Here: it can't be windy, too hot, you need to inform people, put up signs, etc. He was definitely wrong in the 2 hour statement. The 2 hour thing is actually that after 2 hours you can't wash it off! So you can use it and if it rains two hours later, it's already absorbed and killing the plant.

The round up my non organic garden friend uses smells & can keep deer away for a few days.

Neighbour poisoned my garden/dog and Pond

Can someone please help me???

My neighbour has sprayed poison over half of the front of my garden , all down the side, Half of the back garden. They have even sprayed the dog and the pond. I have got them on cctv and hoping the police will pursue criminal proceedings. But I am so worried about the dog and pond full of fish who are showing signs of ulcers and the dog isn't too good either. I am trying to find out what they have used, I did call the environmental health but they said cannot get involved with civil matters and they only deal with the environment. He's spray the poison and its air born and was upset they was no help. The stuff he's used I think was industrial as a landscape gardener said with this drying white after water has been mixed with it. The stuff he used is sticky on the plants and when my son hosed the drive it started to bubble and when it dried after water was added all the drive was white. Its killed everything. Does anyone know of a poison that acts this way as I am lost and I need help. Is there anyone where I can go to test the pond and dog . He does work for the council and was told he has easy access to what they use. I did phone them and he said the stuff they use is as safe as houses and that he doubts hes got it from work. The thing is when they spray its diluted down and the stuff this idiot used I believe be neat Stuff. I will upload some pictures now to show what its doing to the plants. Thanks Janice

As I said its got a film look and when water mixes with it , it turns white everywhere. This before water mixed but u see some white there already showing

janice, this is an old thread, and you may well find some good info on it, but since you need help fast I'd suggest you start a brand new thread and post your photos and your text above on it. That will get people's attention and hopefully get you some help fast.

For the dog I'd suggest calling your vet asap. So sorry this has happened! And I hope that you'll get some good answers soon from folks who know about these things.

Thanks Elisa I am now opening a new thread and thanks for Your advice. I will call the vet in the morning. I need evidence that he's sprayed the dog plus her water bowls outside and know she has been drinking from there and my fish have ulcers. There are some sick ppl out there, hoping the police will charge and prosecute .