Sadly, i have to tell you that there are no orchid pro's. And even if there were you would have to give them more information about your green house. Before the orchids came along what were you growing in there?

How much light? How much air movement? Annual Temperature range?

Oncidium Sharry Baby is one of the easiest orchids to grow and you should be able to find lots of extensive culture notes on the net. Find some that are written for your climate zone.

Maxillaria tenuifolia might be one that does best on a mount such as a slab of treefern.

Cannot find any Cattleya called Blc. Hawaiian Antennatum so that is mystery

and my Osmoglossum pulchellum is sulking, so i'm not going to give any advice on that orchid.

Hello.

Lots of light! It is in the open and gets full sun until the leaves fill in on the trees behind it.
I have two fans crisscrossing all the time, day and night. Lots of air movement.
It never drops below 55 at night and always reaches the mid sixties to 70's by day when the sun is out.
Mid sixties when the sun is obscured by the clouds.
Towards the back of the house it is cooler and at the floor level. Higher up the warmer.

I have many plants growing in there now from tropical citrus to fig and gardenias. It is crowed and I mist almost daily to keep it humid.

I hope this helps you:-) It seems to be the same environment as where I got it.

I think my problem is knowing when to water and how long is too long without watering. How long am I suppose to let the medium dry before watering? Do I keep the mix constantly moist or let it dry completely for a few days before watering again?

I would say the air, light and temps are all ok, but I am afraid I will kill it with my watering practice because I don't know where to draw the line holding back.

Please help if you can, anyone.

Thank you:-)

Mike

So Mike, you are getting into Orchids now, I see? What next?

I will leave the care instructions to others, but for me, I water mine once a week, as with other plants, more orchids are killed by overwatering than anything else. They like high humidity, but not soggy medium, which leads to root rot. I stick with bark mix, for me, sphagnum moss stays wet too long.

I think you saw this before, but this is my Zygo in bloom.

Christopher

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I agree, water once a week. Some times when it is clowdy and grey I even let the plants wait 8 or 9 days between watering. Seven day watering cycles works well for many of us who have greenhouse. I grow mostly paphs. but do have all other genera, many that are in 2 inch pots and like others have said, more orchids die from overwatering then any other thing.

Yes, i agree overwatering. There is no way that you can grow every type of orchid in the one set of conditions. The word "tropical" is the clue and it has led many new growers astray. For a start there is Tropical Lowland, Tropical Savannah, Tropical Montane.

I remember starting off with my first glasshouse and maintaining that mythical 55F at night. Didn't have all that much success. Ran out of room and put overflow Cattleyas out into my son's unheated shade-house. Some of them did better out there even though night temps sometimes went down to the low 40F's.

Just to grow just one Genera well, say Cattleyas, you need multiple conditions, and variations in potting mix and pot type. Did you check that Cattleya name tag?

I once heard that an orchid expert is someone who has killed at least 100 plants. I'm well on my way.

I also feel the you may be over watering. Treat them more like you would a succulent, cooler temps less water. If you don't see any new growth they may be in a rest period and would like to be a little drier. I also had a problem with hard water a while back that was killing off my plants, I switched from tap water to a rain barrel and my plants have been doing much better.

You might want to try the skewer method of watering until you get the hang of it. First,I agree with Christopher, stick with the bark mix. Then get a shishkabob skewer or even a chop stick, trim it down and put it in the medium and leave it there. When you think the plant needs water pull it out and touch it to your cheek, lip, or the back of your hand. If it's wet, don't water. If it's dry or nearly dry, water. How wet or dry the skewer is before the plant needs water will depend on what type of orchid it is. Try to do some research on moisture needs of the plants you have. For instance a cattleya likes to be watered and then allowed to dry out before being watered again, so the skewer should be dry.

Well hey, Mike, fancy seeing you here! ;-)

I look forward to pics of these new acquisitions. As the others said, stick with the bark mixes.
I can't offer any other specific info, since I have only one Orchid at the moment.

Orchid126, I actually learned the skewer trick from Meyer Mike a couple years ago.
Those of us who grow in bark and grit-based mixes (particularly in larger volumes of mix)
have found it to be a life-saver.

Josh

Hey everyone, wow and thank you!

yes, some of these orchids are so small and the clay containers just as small, that they dry out very fast. I have noticed the ones in a fresh bark mix dry out to fast and it concerns me. For some reason I am under the impression that if the roots are left to get that dry, they will shrivel which seems to be happening on some.
I have also noticed the roots exposed are very dry and the roots under the bark, still moist which look kind of grayish and not white at all which concerns me.
Let me see if I can post a couple of my plants and if you need more, I will be back.

I really need to get the watering thing under my belt since everything else is ok. I wish it was just as easy as saying to keep the roots to most orchids moist ver drying out but I know people that do well with them that don't water for days on end, eve after the mix is dry. The roots turn hard and white.

Is there a way to tell one is UNDER watering before it's too late for the plant to have a drink? That is my most major concern. I would have no problem holding back on watering if I knew this was ok. But I am afraid to let the mix stay dry too long. I don't know where the balance is or where to draw the line if that makes sense.

Hey Josh, it's a joy to see you here too along with all these wonderful folk!
Here are a few pics.

Osmoglossum..

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And others

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Mike

I feel it's better to under water to than over water especially, during the winter.
The second photo looks like 2 different plants in the same pot? It kinda looks like a vanda type if front of the maxillaria?
The osmo, max, and sharri all have water stored in the pseudo bulbs and they look plump so unless they start to shrivel up they would be fine without water for a while.
Sometimes with orchids a little neglect goes a long way.

Hi Mike, I agree with lumpy. Your orchids have 'water-holding tanks.' You need to worry about watering during rapid growth. Not sure what your light conditions are or how long you've had these orchids.

I would leave them alone. Don't keep checking them. They can go a long time without water if they are not growing. Its winter, time for most to slow down. If roots are rotting, you are overwatering.

Hang in there,
Jane

Han

Thanks Jane and Lumpy!

I am a still a bit confused on the 'slow down time' though.

If it is flowering like the Sharri and the Osmo ones, does it mean they are still slowed down? It seems that most orchids flower about this time and I am under the impression they have to remain moist at this time?

if they are in rest period although flowering, does the growth period and the need for more watering usually occur during the warmer months?

By the way, my greenhouse gets Full Sun and it gets into the 70's in there when the sun is out and stays in the 60's when the sun is in. The night temps are always in the 50's to 60's range. I do mist quite a bit and wet the floor frequently while I have a fan oscillating the whole time.

I really appreciate the patience of everyone here and the kindness. I think I am getting it more and more.

Please continue:-)

Mike

"If it is flowering like the Sharri and the Osmo ones, does it mean they are still slowed down? It seems that most orchids flower about this time and I am under the impression they have to remain moist at this time?"

Flowering is the end of the growth cycle. They are flowering, not growing. New growths will begin with longer days and will produce your flowers for next year. That is when the plants will need regular water, fertilzer and good light.

Your plants appear soaking wet. You should stop misting. What humidity levels are you keeping? The Osmoglossum would probably do better mounted under your conditions. Species are tricky, not the best for beginners.

I think you are keeping your plants too moist. Even if the bark feels dry, it retains moisture keeping air from the roots. Stop watering, let them dry out and please stop misting them.

Jane

Even if the plants aren't in a rest period the growth rate at your temps for some plants will be very slow. If your plants are wet at night fall and the temp drops into the 50s growth can shut down completely for weeks. A night time temp drop is good but I try to stay between 60 - 80. Can you get info from the person that gave them to you on thier growing conditions? One thing orchids dont like is change, after any big change like repotting people say to cut back on watering until you see new growth.
Warm and humid is good, cool and damp is bad.

Lumpy, I really appreciate that! I have a feeling it's a bit too late to apply that tidbit of advice for a few of mine since now they have already been subjected to everything you described. You are right about the shock period which is why I think they are all sulking at the moments least to say I received 4 through mail bare rooted and very cold.
My friend split the mother plant apart to give me another.
And my conditions are not exactly the same as where they all came from.

What is funny is this. How can a nursery keep their Orchids so nice looking after a delivery for weeks in an entirely different place?

I have the feeling I just might loose a few until I get it right, but all this help will guide me along before I should decide to pay a pretty penny for them.

I was musing this am and thought that maybe I should of asked everyone this simple question???

How do you know when to water YOUR plants and how many have YOU lost before you got it right?

I already know one size does not fit all since everyone has different growing conditions compared to me. But at least if I know how everyone here approaches their plants watering needs, their secrets and personal experience, I can derive much from that.

I really appreciate all these tidbits of info.

I am proud of Josh whom has been very successful with his first one after all this time. Proud of all here whom can grow beautiful orchids with ease, I think:-)

It is definitely an entirely different beast and world, when it comes to Orchids, compared to another other plants I can successfully grow on this earth.

Mike

Water when dry, I generally lift the pot to tell.

That said, after you've had an orchid for a while you start to understand it's needs and can comnfortably say it needs watered ever 7 or ? days without 'lifting'. But, once conditions change (from inside to outside/vice versa) you need to start checking again.

I've lost well over 200 in the last 10 years, I still don't always get it right but as long as it isn't a prolonged problem (1-2 months) most 'kids are pretty tough and can come back once you adjust things more to thier liking.

Good luck,

Bob

Bob:

Yikes, that is a heck of alot of orchids to loose. Talk about a bunch of disapointments and you never gave up. That is something to be proud of.

I think I lost a few Citrus trees myself before I got it right to keep them happy more than one year at a time and I am glad I never gave up.

Now, when many say to lift the pot to see if it needs watering, I am not very good with that.
The mix I use is very barky, and it's fresh bark at that, and when I do soak, it seems just run out immediately whuile only wets the surface of all the ingredients until it ages a bit or starts to hold water. It seems that after a day, maybe a minute part of teh mix may still be a tiny bit moist but that's it, especially since they are in pots that allow air to the roots.

So at this point I can't feel a difference between just wetting the mix and when it is dry. They both feel the same to me.
I have literally picked up a dry pot verses a watered one, and there is no difference..lol, if that makes sense.

The mix is very light after a watering, just a light as when I it's dry. Do you understand my meaning?

When does the mix start to feel heavier, after the bark and other ingredients start to hold the water? I think that takes a while or as the mix starts to age?

Should of have soaked all the ingredients before hand for an hour or two before using the mix? Is that what many here do to stop the mix from drying out so fast?
I am almost positive that the mix, bark in particular is just getting wet on the surface and not soaking through to stay moist long enough to benefit my plants.

Now I have a two fold possible issue here. Either I am watering wrong, or I am watering correctly with a mix that is not holding moisture correctly...Sheesh!

What's your take?

Thank you

Mike

The saying regarding watering orchids is that you can never water an orchid enough, but you can water too often. Make sure you water the orchid very well, and then don't water again until the particular type of orchid needs it.

When new bark is used it should be soaked for at least an hour to condition the bark otherwise water will not penetrate it but run right over it. So again, when you water, water well and then don't water again until the particular type of orchid needs it.

You would have to research the water needs of your orchids in any case. There is no one way to water so many different types of orchids in so many different types of media.

I know when to water because of the skewer. As greenman28 says,skewers are a life saver.

The skewer method is what I also use for every other plant I own except my orchids, and I thank you for that.

In fact, I am always encouraging the skewer, wooden dowel method to everyone on other sites. I am a proponent of this method and have actually not lost a single planting in years, until I got these 'orchids' as gifts.

My issue is that I want to make sure I am not over watering when I know for 'sure' my mix has dried out and the roots are dry.
Believe me, some in them in my new mix, dry out within hours in these 1 and 1/2 inch clay containers.
How long can an orchid go without a drop of water after knowing full well the mix is dry?
I have been told they like to be treated like cactus, at least mine and I find that hard to believe.

I just visited and Orchid nursery and it seems that almost everyone of theirs that were in older mixes were dry as a bone.
The ones in newer mixes were sopping wet.
Each time I go back, the newer mix ones are just watered as they say and go figure, the girl there didn't know a thing about them.

I have been hearing conflicting stories of many that don't water their plants even after knowing the mix has dried.
I know one women who only waters once a week no matter what.
Are they tough like Cactus? That is the impression I have been getting from many.
That they can go for days without water long after the mix has dried out.
I called an Orchid seller and he told me that they like to be evenly moist at all times when temps range from between the 60's and higher.

I had said on the onset that that some of them are in small clay pots that go done dry only after a day. So if it is bone dry, am I to assume I am safe watering those orchids again and again, until the mix settles and holds moisture, as often as I have to, even if everyday until the mix finally starts to hold moisture longer than a day or two?

Sorry if anyone is having a hard time understanding my need. But if you ever looked up info on these plants and a lack thereof, they all conflict. I had hoped that many here have a much better knowledge of teh ones I posted and the patience to work with me. I had hoped I would meet many growing the same ones I am.

Now even more direct.

Are there any of my Orchids in which I mentioned that like to stay dry for days before another watering?
Or, do reject going dry for more than a day after I know they have dried out and need to be watered before going bone dry?
Do I water when my mix is almost dry? Do I water my new mixex more often since they seem to repel water?
How long can my particular orchids go very dry without being watered?

Thanks so much and for your patience

Mike

They can go a long time without water. Are your plants newly potted? If so, their roots have not filled in the new pots. If they were damaged during potting, they wouldn't be growing new roots now. Once they do, you will see the roots filling the pot. The pot will feel heavier as the roots grow and take up water.

Orchids take a long time before they tell you things are wrong. Usually by the time you realize you are doing things wrong, they are gonners. You can't read them like dirt plants. They don't wilt when you don't water. They begin to shrivel, but that takes quite a while as most store water in their bulbs. So even though the mix is dry, it doesn't mean the plant needs to be watered immediately.

If they were mine, I wouldn't water until they were 'bone dry' for a few days.

Jane

I've been reading your advise on citrus for ages so its nice to get a chance to pay you back. I've even been thinking about the bubble wrap greenhouse thing for next year, if I can only get my wife out of the house for a few days.

In my opinion there are no real rules for orchids just broad guide lines. So much depends on the type of plant and where you are trying to grow it. Orchids also have the ability to adapt to you to an extent. Vandas grown in humid tropical areas will grow thin spaghetti like roots while the same plant grown in a temperate area will grow fat chunky roots. Roots will also develop differently depending on what they are growing in or on.

I have a dendrobium that I don't water from November to March on the other hand I have a masdivallia sitting in a saucer of water so it wont dry out, those are extremes but thats what makes it hard to say "this is the way to do it".

The biggest improvement I've seen was switching from tap water to rain water. I use a 3 gal pump sprayer to water, I set it to a small mist cone and spray the media for a minute or two, I collect the water in a bucket and use that water on my other plants. I think less water over a longer period gives the roots outside of the pot more time to soak up water and I got tired of buying fertilizer only to have it spill allover the floor.

Also the plant (the one closer to the camera) in your second photo looks to me like a neostylis or some other vanda type, it doesnt look like any of the plants you listed in the original post. If it is it should be kept warmer watered more often than the others since they dont have water storage organs.

I actually think your plants in the pics look fairly good.

I grow indoors in winter, so I have a little more control over things and can schedule watering. I actually water most of my 70+ 'kids every 7 days and a few mounties daily/multiple times daily. Once they go outside in summer, things change a little.

As Jane said, when you water, do it very heavily.

General rule of thumb:
Thin roots = fine mix, thick roots = course mix.
Small pots "usually" need watered more than larger pots.
Clay pots dry faster than plastic pots.

I think more orchids are killed by over loving than by neglect, most can be tough plants and survive and flower if you even get close to their needs. They thrive when you can nail it.

As Lumpy said, that does appear to be 2 differnt type of orchids in the 2nd pic, but I can't see the vanda-looking one in the 3rd pic (if it is the same plant).

BTW: Of those >200, @130 were in a 1-2 month period 3 years ago (fungal & health issues). I've done OK the last few years after I restarted and stayed a little closer to types I know I can grow successfully (phals, paphs & phrags mostly, + a few others for fun. Mini-vandaceous are my real challenge, tough going indoors for 7+ months for them).

Again, good luck.

Bob

Hey, Mike, good morning!

I see what you're asking, and it looks as though you're getting closer to an answer.
Unfortunately, you still need to finalize identification of your plants so that you can
then seek out those who grow the exact variety. That said, I think you have enough
information to be successful...and you can fine-tune your Orchid care down the line.

I think you're asking "Should I water when the *mix* is dry, or when the *plant* is dry."
From what I'm reading in this Thread, it sounds as though you water when the *plant* is dry.
Your next question is "How can I tell when the *plant* is dry?" And that becomes a bit more tricky.
As several others wrote, certain Orchids can store more moisture than others. Those that hold
moisture can go for an extender period of time in a dry mix without harm at all.

So, back to the proper indentification of these Orchids.....
with the proper ID's, you can learn specifically how much or how little moisture each holds.
Pictures of the base of the Orchid should help determine that, but I assure you that I am
no expert and you'll need to rely on these long-time growers.

If I've misunderstood your questions, just let me know!

Josh

EXACTLY JOSH!!!!!

That is my question in a more properly directed way It seems that everyone has added such good input, I am must closer at feeling comfortable with growing them!
Thank you thank you. As for identification, I will work on that this weekend and post closeup pics and the name to each one. I really appreciate this.

Jane: Thank you so very much. I for certain know you have some of the nicest orchids around, so help coming from you and especially that last sentence make a LOT of sense. "I wouldn't water until bone dry for a few days". You have no idea how much that is a stress reliever on these plants. I can relax to that and I thank you for that.

Bob: Excellent pointers and that makes a whole lot of sense. I am going to save this thread for sure and believe it or not, I have some local friends that just may try an orchid or two with this info!

Lumpy: I had NO idea you were learning at on the Citrus side! You own some? How are they doing? They sure are a different species aren't they?lol
I have read your post very closely and what you say makes complete sense too. I REALLY appreciate your input and if there is any other help I can do to help you be better at citrus growing, ask any time. Even Josh here would be willing to help since we spend a lot of time at the citrus side.

I just wanted to send a warm welcome to all and for continuing to help be to feel comfortable and not such a failure. I KNEW I could get better help here with a great bunch of people just as I have from the start on many other topics in these forums.
I learned more here than any where else in the world and on the web.

If you think I should know more please say so as I get my pics together and post them over the weekend. Please watch for them everybody, ok?

Many thank you's!
Please excuse the typos since I ran out of time to go back and fix them:-)

Mike:-)))

Howdy, Mike, glad to help in any way I can!
Just wanted to slip in while I'm on my prep (no 3rd period class).

Josh

I have two orange a meyer and a persian lime tree that do OK, I cant seem to get the oranges to do anything the others do better. I also drifted to the succulent forum and see you there alot as well. Then I started with the plumeria and tropical forums and now I have major space issues. But back to the orchids....
One thing about orchids is that they have an amazing ability to adapt to you over time. So many times I have tried water more water less re pot in this or that colder warmer etc. and the plant would continue to decline. When I say the hell with it and put it off in the corner and forget about it, BOOM , it starts to grow like crazy. I say don't go crazy over details, find out the temp range- warm, intermediate or cool, water quality over quantity and then leave them alone.

Going back to the beginnings of this long thread and the "tropicals". If you were to ask me how to grow a lime or a lemon...I'd say you dig a hole, plant the plants,scatter some Citrus food around from time to time and bob's your uncle.

Here is NOT the tropics. Neither is a green-house somewhere in the North of the USA where the winter temperature ranges between 55 and 70F with lots of misting. Sounds like Cloud Forest conditions.

Plumeria! Tropical, you have got to be kidding! My Mother-In-law hates the Plumeria growing in the front garden. Those blooms on the lawn are so messy. LOL

Anyway, we all start off with the tropical myth, try and grow one single plant of all sorts of orchids. Fail with many. Succeed with a few and hopefully get into the hobby by growing the ones that like our conditions. In other words, we become specialists.

One of the best things to do if you are a new grower is to visit a local orchid society and see the main Genera that are grown by the locals.

Here is a Genera List of numbers Orchids exhibited in descending sequence for one orchid society at latitude 33S. Bet is nothing like that for Orchid Societies in Northern USA.

Cattleya Hybrids
Australian Native Species & Hybrids
Oncidiinae Sub-Tribe Hybrids
Species Americas
Cymbidium Hybrids
Paphiopedilums Species & Hybrids
Species Other than Americas or Australia

Very few Hard-cane Dendrobiums, Vandas, Phalaenopsis, Masdevallia.

Ok everyone! I had a quick sec to stop by and post a couple of pictures and what I think I found out for myself with my growing conditions and your guidance.
I will be back with more pics.

I was at an Orchid store yesterday and was talking to a girl who just so happens to grow the same 'Siam Jade" I have and told me she never has trouble with hers. In fact she has been able to get it to bloom twice. I went back and showed her the roots to one of mine and she told me to do emergency treatment now@!lol

She said she uses just fine and medium Coco husk chips, something I have always been against,lol. Ok I thought I would give it a try since I had nothing to loose anyhow. It just so happens I had a block of it from previous years.

I soaked it good and rinsed several time even though it was the original 'Sri Lanka' one and did an emergency pot on just one. Look at the difference today on it.

This is what they both looked like before I started. I did rinse them off before this pic was taken so they look wet, but anyone who knows the roots of orchids real well can only imagine what they looked like dry!
Notice the roots barely alive and very dehydrated. This is what they both looked like.

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This is what my orchid looks like after just one day of a better mix! Notice how the roots filled out and look hydrated. I have not seen this plant look this good since I have owned it.

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Now I need to repot the other before I loose it.

Here is an extra seemingly doing better than it was in just one day:-)

Ok, gotta go, but I will be back

Thanks all

Mike

This one's roots plumped right up after one day and the leaves feel fantastic after days of trying to get them to look good!

Wow, Mike! What sort of mix was that one in previously?

Josh

Good job! Looks like they just needed a bit more moisture.

I just started using CHC's with a couple of my aroids. I like the CHC's so far because they hold a lot of water, are chunky enough to maintain a lot of air space, and are cheap! I also add coarse pine bark and lava rock in equal amounts so the mix doesn't hold too much water. If it works well (which it seems to so far), I'll use it on a couple of orchids this spring.

I'd just keep in mind that those CHC's may hold quite a bit of water even when the top appears completely dry, so make sure you don't water more often than necessary.

Hey josh, I just got back from the restaurant! Sweet baby back ribs with real maple syrup that fell apart in my hands, and fresh haddock with a topping of mozzarella cheeses and fresh basil! Rice pilaf and fresh vinegar beets:-)

Ok, what were we talking about?lol

Would you believe I spent almost 20 dollars for a bag of 'Imperial Mix' for Cattlya as the company says so, but it just didn't do the job!
Now I do plan on making the mix you and I spoke of on a few of my others since yours seems to do the trick too once the weather warms and I have access to the ingredients I need.

It's fun to see what works and what doesn't for our plants. I am learning quite a bit on this trip.

Penfold, how are you? You are into orchids too? Nice:-)

What kind do you have? Yes, I have been told that about holding water ahead of time. That girl told me to only water once every week and a half or longer.
So no matter what, I am not watering these more than that unless it's summer. I figure if the roots can get that dry, and the plant still live, then it will sure do better in my care this way even if I hold back 2 weeks or more.

Thanks

I've just started growing orchids over the last year or so. I've always been interested in fragrant plants, so I have several fragrant orchids like Phalaenopsis bellina, P. violacea, Angraecum didieri, Maxillaria tenuifolia, and some non-fragrant ones as well. I don't really stick to any particular genera, just whatever I like.

I guess if I like fragrant plants, I should try some citrus next, huh?

Yes you should! I will help you with them if you dooooo:-)

Funny, the ONLY orchids I want are ones with fragrance. Go figure, if you know me, right?

I hope you are having success with yours too. I am sure learning a lot for sure. See you at the citrus forum some day I hope!

Mike:-)

Hey, Mike and Pen!
Yes, Pen, perhaps some citrus are in your future ;-)

Mike, sounds like a great lunch. I'm doing a birthday dinner with the family this evening....
going to a place called Bombay Bistro for some garlic naan bread and lamb vindalhoo...very spicy.

But I digress!

Josh