Upright grows like U, spreading grows more like Y. Upright requires more training than spreading to get good crotch angles.

Any in a spur type will be less vigorous because more energy goes into producing more fruit on less tree (Arkansas Black comes in spur forms).

I would say my Arkansas Black is upright. I started off by training it but the only reason later branches have bent down is the weight of the apples.

Stark's wholesale catalog has a lot of good charts, one is vigor. I assume this is to match rootstock to scions so other than for their exclusives and different varieties I would imagine it would hold fairly true.

I don't know about overall standard size comparisons.

Here is a link that might be useful: Stark's wholesale catalog

Zeuspaul:

The most vigorous growing apple tree I have seen is a variety called Spigold. This is a triploid cultivar, many of which are noted for rapid growth. I have a Spigold in my back yard that would surely be over 40 feet after 15 years in the ground were it not for regular, severe pruning.

Growth of Spigold is both upright and spreading. It doesn't have to be one or the other, and that is true of many varieties. Spigold also produces wonderful apples; they can become very large if properly thinned. However, if you are growing an apple as a specimen tree, and do little or no pruning, the tree will quickly become so crowded with branches that the quality of any apple will be less than optimum. However, those that manage to somehow thin themselves and avoid insect damage will be big and delicious.

Don Yellman, Great Falls, VA

Zuespaul:

There if one little detail I forgot to mention, and that is rootstock. Pretty important detail at that. My Spigold is on M-7, a rootstock generally classified as semi-dwarf. God only knows what this cultivar could do on a seedling rootstock, but I would expect it to become considerably larger and grow even faster. If you want a larger specimen tree of any variety, plant on a seedling rootstock.

If you want the growth to be more spreading, spread the branches with stakes or weights while the tree is still young. Nearly any apple tree can benefit from branch spreading to give it a full shape (not to mention improving fruiting), though they can also spread by weight of the fruit as in Myk's case.

Not too many nurseries sell full-size trees on seedling rootstocks any more, but I believe St. Lawrence in NY State is one. Those that do would probably call the trees "standard" rootstocks. Antonovka is another rootstock commonly used for standard trees, particularly in northern areas, but it should do well for you too.

Don Yellman, Great Falls, VA

I have been buying benchgrafts as it is the only way I have been able to get seedling rootstock on a variety that I want. More than half of my trees are standards. I planted a few Antonovka because I wanted to try grafting. Now I may leave them as they are as the trees seem to be doing rather well. Maybe Antonovka would make a good specimen tree??

Spigold looks interesting. It does have a Northern Spy parent and my Northern Spy is currently my largest tree. The apple comes late which would work well with my Granny Smiths and Fujis for cider making. I'll have way to many eating apples when the trees start producing in quantity so I am looking for more cider apples.

I core and wedge the apples before making cider which doesn't work well with some apples. Some large apples don't fit in the easy wedger/corer. Also if the seed bundle is too wide the corer part doesn't get all of the seeds which increases my labor a bit. Not that I care a lot about the apple for the Specimen tree.

Thanks for the input

Zeuspaul

I use a wedger before grinding for cider. Since everything goes into the grinder I don't worry about where the core hole or slices end up.

I use the waste after pressing the cider to make apple/pumpkin butter. I don't want the seeds in the butter. Also I worry a little about the arsenic in the seeds. I know it is a very small amount.

Zeuspaul

This nursery in California sells full-size trees on benchgrafts--you might also try asking them for a suggestion:

http://www.greenmantlenursery.com/fruit/etter-apples.htm

Carla in Sac

Thanks Carla. Most of my trees are from Greenmantle. I plant a lot of standards and they are a great resource for standard benchgrafts.

I have an order pending with them for more Granny Smith, Fuji, Liberty and I am afraid I feel another one coming. I'll be sorry when they all arrive:)

For the specimen I may try a Spigold and a Northern Spy and see which one looks best after five or ten years.

Now that I have my apple press performing well I feel the urge to add to my cider apple collection. Perhaps Dabinett, Yarlington Mill, Kingston Black and Wickson Crab. Wickson Crab with all that sugar will help give the hard cider a little kick. My first hard cider batch turned out pretty good so now I am inspired.

Zeuspaul

Zeuspaul,

I planted a spigold from Greenmantle this last spring. As you know, benchgrafts from Greenmantle are small with only about a two inch scion on the graft. I ordered the spigold on standard roots. This summer it grew about 5 feet from a two inch graft. Definitely vigorous. As a cider maker, you know blending varieties is the key, but for single variety cider, Spigold is supposed to be very good. Saying all this, I may end up getting rid of my tree, and try to sell it. The reason is, I tried a spigold this fall and didn't like it that well. It is reputed to be one of the best tasting apples, and I have no doubt it is, for most folks. But I have an unusual preference for very crunchy, sweet apples, and it didn't quite make the grade for me. Plus, I've changed my mind and decided I really don't want an apple tree the size of Tyrannosaurus rex.