I'd do it before heavy snow falls or you may have some issues. I know here, Triple Crown gets killed back to the ground unless I have deep snow to protect them. If I remember, the leaves on mine never really did fall off. I think it held them all winter. I'd have to cut the dead canes back the following spring.

Can triple crowns be laid on ground and covered with hay? I have read straw, but I can get hay for free, and straw costs time and money. I also get leaves and composted sawdust/manure for free, which material will work best for this?

In years past, anything below 0F would start to kill Triple Crown canes. However last winter it got down to -8F and we still had almost a full crop. Go figure.

You really want to protect your canes from the bitter cold, keeping in mind for convenience sake, you don't want to have to mulch them when the weather is already starting to turn cold.

However, if you mulch too early or remove the mulch too late, you run the risk of canes rotting/molding in the mulch.

As a compromise, it's probably safe to mulch in zone 5 now.

Straw tends to stay drier than hay, but it probably doesn't matter what you mulch with as long as you don't put it on too early, or remove it too late. As Frank points out, you can even mulch with snow.

I read that plants hardy in zone 5 should be able to handle -20F, it sounds like that is stretching it a bit.

The average low here in Bethel, NY in January is 12F, if I remember right, it got down to -7F last winter. It sounds like our winters here are similar to olpea's winters as far as coldness goes. I am a little concerned by the wind here, though, we are on top of a hill in the foothills of the catskills, and it is always windy during winter, and with wind chill, it is -20F - -30F all of the time. I think this excessive wind may dry canes out or damage also.

I will cover some of them with hay in a few weeks, usually is getting pretty cold around T giving when I put my x mas lights up. It is still a little warm here, was 68F today.

Woodstock,

Indeed it sounds as if our winters are similar. In the last decade it's only gotten below zero a few times here. We also get a lot of wind (third windiest state).

Sounds like you are really in a zone 6.

Given your climate, I wouldn't bother covering the canes at all. You might loose a few canes over the winter (as I usually do) but it's probably not worth the labor of covering.

O:

As far as I know, older maps put me in 5, newer maps put me in 6, so what zone am I actually in? Record low here is -26F, my dad remembers -20 (for several weeks) years ago, but seldom below 0 on average. I planted triple crown with out intending to spend the time laying canes down. I will just lay a few down in case trellised ones all die, then I may still at least get some fruit...

I also put 40' of kiowa in, I dont think there is any way to protect them. I am banking on the fact that the wild erect berries grow and produce fine here on the farm. Also put 20' caroline raspberries in, but they died (I think my lawn mower blowing grass on new growth shoots in early spring killed them) in the spring, I am planing on putting new ones in next spring, any ideas on these verieties for our climate?

Triple Crown gets killed many winters down here- even in low points of Westchester county. It's not just temps but wind, I think, and there's probably a lot of other variables as well- like at what point the cold comes during the plants, "sort of", dormancy (blackberries never seem to voluntarily go dormant- the leaves just freeze).

I would cover some of the canes and leave some exposed to learn the variables of your particular site. I'd also wait until Dec.- we never seem to get any true winter in Nov. any more and it will be better for the plants, I think. It will also reduce vole pressure.

Voles will eat the canes so you better have whatever mulch you use well baited or trap out the area thoroughly right now. Down here this looks to be a terrible vole winter.

The people at Nourse believe that fall pruning reduces winter dessication and helps brambles survive winter.

What a coincidence. I was just about to start a post about putting my blackberries to bed for the winter. I did it this past weekend. I took the canes that were flexible and laid them on the ground. I have these curved blocks that hold them down without putting any pressure on the canes. Then I covered them with hay.

I did this last year and had about 80% survival of the canes I covered. I had 0% survival of the ones I left on the trellis. And it wasn't a particularly severe winter here.

Here's a couple pictures:

{{gwi:125969}}
{{gwi:125970}}

Each of my plants has a 6' cane, tied to top wire, and a shorter cane, tied to lower wire. I will lay some of the 6' canes on the ground and cover with hay, but leave the 3' canes up, which are trained around and around bottom wire, so they may get damaged if removed.

I will try fall pruning one plant to see if it helps canes through winter, any ideas of how much to take off?

I thought about pruning about 1' of the newest growth off of them, because newer tender growth appears to have no chance for winter to me, and no fruiting buds out by the tips.

Will my erect Kiowa berries survive winter better than triple crowns? There are not too many options to protect those canes that I can think of...They will likely be buried over halfway with snow anyway.

We have had major major vole damage over the years around this old farm, but last year I had 0 vole damage up at my new house, I applied 5% castor oil pellets around all plants every month in the winter, maybe this worked, or maybe the voles dont like my lawn, which is a very open area?

HM, are you talking about mouse bait and traps in the garden for voles? I though about putting mouse bait stations last year, but I used the agway mole and vole repellent, and it worked.

Woodstock,

I don't grow Kiowa, but the AR thornless I grow have less winter dieback than TC.

I've read before thorny erect are generally hardier than thornless erect, so my guess is Kiowa will probably do fine. But as I said, I've had pretty good luck with TC.

I really don't think wind is the big factor because we get tons of it here. One thing that is perhaps different is that my planting is mulched very heavy. The mulch almost never lets the ground dry out. Fertility may play a role as well (i.e. high fertility produces larger canes, larger canes being more hardy than smaller ones).

On the pruning, mature TC plants will send out too many laterals for the trellis. I generally remove some of the laterals leaving about 3 laterals per wire, keeping the bigges ones.

The laterals will also grow too long and overlap laterals from the next plant, so you generally have to shorten the laterals as well.

New plants don't have as much vigor and may require very little pruning.

"As far as I know, older maps put me in 5, newer maps put me in 6, so what zone am I actually in?"

The USDA redrew the zone maps several years ago. If the new ones say zone 6 then that's your zone.

As you allude, the minimum temperature of a zone is the average minimum winter temperature. So if most of your winters are around 0F then it would be hard for your zone to average minus 20F for a zone 5.

That said, it only takes one winter minus 20F to kill some fruit trees, so zone rankings have their limitations.

OK, so I am in zone 6, then. olpea, what is your zip code? I will compare your spot to mine on the map, if I am closer to 5 than you on the new map, I may more likely have dieback on same type.

I also have read somewhere that thorny erect are generally the most hardy. I am a little scared, because wild berries have lost 1/2 of their leaves here, but domestics leaves have turned brown,. a few of the kiowa are still green. They are growing in 50% compost, and had fertilizer, so growing enviroment is definately way better than wild, could this cause leaves to stay on longer?

My TC plants covered the lower wire, but no coverage on top wire yet, I pruned all plants a little bit to try to get laterals to grow, but only a few laterals this year. I can tell that next year, all blackberry primocanes will completely cover trellises.

Woodstock,

"OK, so I am in zone 6, then. olpea, what is your zip code?"

My zip is 66013.

The high fertility is probably causing your leaves to stay on longer.

Occasionally you hear warnings not to fertilize too late in the season, as this delays hardening. Instead the plants just want to keep growing.

Younger plants seem to keep their leaves longer as well.

I wouldn't worry about it, my blackberries still have some their leaves too.