Okay, okay, Bestlawn. Home from work, had dinner, hung out with the kids. Jarvinen, Bestlawn has given you a good primer on that other thread. From your description, it sounds like your yard is not super shady, so a blend of KBG varieties could work fine. If you decide to go that route, some or all of the varieties should be among those that have proven to have decent shade tolerance. Here are five good ones: Moonlight, Brilliant, Apollo, Unique, and Princeton-105 (aka P-105). They all can be purchased from Summit Seed. Williams Lawn Seed has some of them also. If you want to hedge your bets with the shade, then you should mix in some fine fescue. Not only do they do well in shade, they can handle droughty soil, and are extremely cold-hardy. Finding a pre-packaged mix of just fine fescue and KBG might not be easy. The seed sellers usually add a good dollop of perennial ryegrass to create the classic three-way northern mix. The problem for you is the perennial rye isn't likely to persist in your climate, so you'd be spending money for transient grass that will compete with the KBG and FF that will handle da U.P. My favorite FF is a type called Chewings fescue. Two good varieties are Longfellow II, which can be had cheaply from Crosman Seed, and Intrigue, which Summit Seed carries. You might also want to add some Strong Creeping Red fescue, since it can spread to fill in bare areas, and does well in the Great Lakes region. Good varieties of this grass are Cindy Lou from Crosman, Aberdeen from Summit, and Jasper II--if we can find a source. There are some newer varieties that have been giving a good show, such as Seven Seas, Musica, and Windward, all of which looked good in the trial plots at MSU, but I've not used them or looked into sources. Mix the KBG and FF seeds together in a ratio of about 60:40% respectively. Since KBG seeds are much smaller and lighter than FF seeds, you will have about 5 times as many KBG seeds as FF seeds. Sow this mixture at 3.5 to 4 pounds per 1000 square feet. Over the years the KBG will come to dominate the sunniest areas, while the FF will reign in the shade. Now I'm somewhat adventurous when it comes to turfgrass types. If I was up in your area, and the shade didn't seem too severe, I'd go for some KBG varieties that are derived from high-latitude genotypes. These would be North Star and Alpine (from Iceland, of all places!), both of which have a long track record of excellent performance in MSU's trials. I'm sure this all sounds pretty daunting--you just want a nice lawn afterall--but think it over, and we can probably distill it down to a good plan. A.J.

I'm certainly not trying to pick a fight, and I regret that my posting may have come across that way. Bestlawn has done a better job than I ever could have in advancing the homeowners' knowledge of modern cultivars. Ironic, perhaps, since that was the exact reason I joined this forum several years ago--to spread the word that there are lots of great grasses out there that only the professionals know about--and if we homeowners knew about them and badgered the suppliers en masse maybe we could buy and enjoy them also. All of the cultivars Bestlawn and I have mentioned are excellent, and you would do well with any of them. I guess my point was that if you look critically at the NTEP data, taking into account the LSD values and the cultural practices employed at the particular sites, it can be pretty hard to find meaningful differences between any of the good, modern varieties. This becomes even more evident if you go and look at the NTEP plots in person. I annually visit those at Michigan State University, and now fully understand why the Michigan rankings are so flat. About the only KBG cultivar you can pick out at a distance is Kenblue. The differences between all the newer, better cultivars are tiny. This is even more so with tall fescue. Only Kentucky 31 stands out. The rest are all dense and dark green. So, if Blue Velvet sounds good to you (it IS an excellent cultivar) and you have a good source for it, by all means sow it and enjoy it. Kingfisher has done pretty well in the NTEP, but there are several other America-types that have a long and lusty track record against things like shade and powdery mildew. I haven't seen Bewitched, at least not by that name--maybe it was an experimental in the previous NTEP. In summary, you could probably put together dozens of KBG blends that would perform just as well as the Magnificent Three, but I feel confident that that blend will work great anywhere KBG is adapted. Plus, we have some folks on this board who have the lawns to show it. Happy glyphosating and sowing, A.J.

I'm in NJ as well and when my house was completed my builder seeded grass with rye/fescue/kbg mix. It didnt fill in that well and I liked the way KBG looked so in the front of my house I kept reseeding with just KBG mixes and the back of my house with rye/fescue/kbg mix. So I think I was exactly in the same boat as you. My front looks great and it was a good thing that it was originally seeded with the mix because there is one area in the back that gets a lot of shade and KBG didnt take there but fescue did and it looks great. The rest where there is more sun fades from fescue to mostly KBG but the transformation from one to the other is unnoticable from the street. My neighbor across the street got his house built after mine and my front yard looks better then his $2000 sod. Now my backyard was originally seeded with rye/fescue/kbg mix and reseded with that as I'm still trying to get it as thick as my front yard. It looks fine but nowhere near as good as my front yard. It also doesnt require the amount of maintenance the front does and it seems to be more resistant to kid abuse. I guess what I'm trying to say its all relative to your situation and what you are trying to do. I wanted my front to be mostly KBG as it looks better but it took forever to establish and it takes more work to maintain. Not a problem for me as a like working on it. The existing mix that was seeded might not be a bad base as it will cover any places that are shaded where kbg wont grow (I dont know your yard so thats really up to you) but it wont be as uniform as the pictures posted by pure KBG owners. Tall fescue stands out in KBG and you will definitely notice it. Now my backyard didnt have to be nice but more drought and abuse resistant. Thats exactly what it is plus it doesnt require as much work. So it all worked out well for me and I got what I wanted. I have nice lawn in the front and decent but resistant and low maintenance lawn in the back. Everyones situation is different and you have to take it all with a grain of salt and decide on your own. I dont know what your lawn looks like now, how much time and money you want to spend and what kind of final quality are you looking for. Either way good luck and I hope it turns out good.

This is the thread. Farther down is my suggestion after you mentioned you weren't necessarily interested in high traffic tolerance. You forgot LOL. Blue Velvet (or MII, your choice) Kingfisher Bewitched It sounds like you have a lot of lawn to cover, so I can understand you don't want to have to overseed often. But, I have to say regular overseeding is always recommended to maintain diversity of the blend and desired traits of each. What happens is shifting as the stronger variety or varieties dominate the weaker one(s) over time. Of this blend, I have no idea which will likely dominate, but shifting happens no matter the blend and happens when there is a mix of other species, such fescue/kbg/ryegrass. Perhaps you never heard of it before, but you also haven't always known of lawn care forums that advise on proper maintenance such as "mow high, water deeply, don't fertilize in summer, overseed regularly, etc." Before you found forums offering advice, you probably didn't know about most of the things you know now. I always suggest overseeding regularly. It just happened to be even more important when it comes to an aggressive type like North Star. As I say, I can understand you don't want to have to overseed so regularly. I still recommend it, but you might choose to do it less often like every 3-4 years or so. But please do it. Without elaborating on reasons for blending rather than a monostand, let me just say the Midnight types are especially susceptible to powdery mildew. This is a disease most associated with shade conditions, but even if you don't have shade, you likely will experience days of low cloud cover and high humidity. Such days also increase chances of PM. Therefore, it's best to have varieties like Kingfisher and Bewitched to protect the stand on those occasions. If you want the extended explanation, just let me know.