Every area has it's trade offs.....here in zone 9 (Florida) I can grow the items you mentioned and we don't have to import water BUT no bing cherries and I miss them so much lol. We have a longgggg growing season and the plants respond with great growth but we also have more disease and bug problems that the winters up north tend to keep in check. All said I don't miss the snow, not even one little bit.

Mediterranean climate... the most precious agricultural land in the world. The best Bing cherries in the world come from Lodi, CA, or if you can get them, Chico, CA; but good luck getting one before they are shipped off to Japan at $7 per pound. Guatemala is a great place to grow fruits; but NOT the Med Zone fruits; they are quite special. I have more than 50 different fruits planted on my new lemon farm; but mostly I grow lemons which, as most citrus, do very well in tropical or subtropical climes, albeit without the bright colors of the Med Zones or the desert.

Bamboo is right about the diseases; the climate that makes things grow so well, also is heaven to molds, viruses, insects, etc.

There's no question that southern CA has one of the best climates in the USA or anywhere for growing a great variety of fruit with minimal pests. But you can't grow everything there due to lack of chilling. If I were in that area I'd want to be 10-20 miles inland to get enough heat for good fruit quality on grapes and stone fruit.

I'd probably prefer more inland areas like Fresno or Modesto because they get about 3-5 times more chilling. They might be limited slightly on the more exotic fruits compared to southern CA. But I'm unsure how the eating quality of most of those exotics would pan out anyhow.

On some things like Mango it's not warm enough in winter for good quality anywhere in CA. At least that's my understanding.

My area has certain advantages for protected culture, mainly lots of sunshine all year long and fairly long winter days. More of either than southern CA. So if I manipulate temperature and water I can equal anywhere on earth. Right now I have blueberries in full bloom and proper temperatures, I think, for high eating quality. Now that I have a warm environment all year long, add a freezer chest set on 45F for chilling and I can harvest many potted fruits at any point in the year. At least that's my next goal.

The other thing is all that variety of fruit looks great but how does it taste? In my experience stone fruit is the best I've had by far. Quality there is about proper culture mainly getting the water right. I'm still eating 25 brix pluot. That's about as good as it gets.

Fruit-

{{gwi:125737}}
You need a place in Death Valley (-282ft). Then just jog your potted plants up to Telescope Peak (11,331ft) for chilling (probably cold year round that high) and then back down again (maybe you could get mountain goats to carry them!). I'm pretty sure Death Valley will give you enough heat for that 50 brix fruit.

You make a good point. Having a greenhouse, almost anywhere in the US can be a good spot for a large variety of fruit, given you have the money to build it/heat it. It was above 90F in my low tunnel this afternoon under blue skies (outside temp hit 37F). Add some snow and it would be even warmer (reflection really helps).

Yea...but most of us want to grow things the natural way with minimal input.

Commercial agriculture today is anything but natural, which is what most of us rely on to live. I just bought blueberries tonite from Argentina...brought here by airplane. Growing under plastic/glass to extend a season/grow things that might not make it otherwise isn't a bad idea. The Chinese grow 30,000 acres of peaches under plastic.

This thread was done here about a year ago. I think the Sierra foothills would be ideal for temperate fruit except that bears can be an issue on many sites. San Diego is a bit limited for reasons FN described.

Lack of rain and humidity during the growing season allows possible spray-free fruit and complete control of water- as long as it isn't being rationed. Excess water is enemy uno of high quality fruit.

harvestman:

The foothills of CA quickly become limiting on length of growing season. Nearly all really long growing season areas are below 1,000ft elevation in southern CA and below 500ft in northern CA. For instance Lakeport, a prominent pear growing region at 1347ft in northern CA, only has a 188 day freeze free period. Chico mentioned above at 205ft but in the foothills of northern CA is only 231 days. Modesto at 91ft has 275 days.

In southern CA San Diego is frost free most years. Inland a little ways La Mesa at 530ft is also frost free. Escondido at 660ft is 290 days. Alpine CA 30-40 miles east of San Diego and at 1841ft has frost Nov to March most years.

There is a region of the foothills near Auburn CA, 1292ft and 275 days, that is famous for it's cold hardy citrus. But there are only a few foothills locations that can grow even the cold hardy stuff.

Whereas in San Diego you can grow a huge array of tender fruits. I still have questions about the eating quality. San Diego isn't really warm enough for the heat loving fruits. Inland 10-20 miles or more and it can be really hot. CA has a million microclimates. Unfortunately 40 million people!!

Well, fruitnut, you really know your stuff... you're absolutely right about coastal SD lacking enough heat for a lot of fruits, but this is only right up close to the water (within a few miles, or less where it is hilly). There the emphasis seems to be on tropical-looking landscape plants.

But I can certainly say that everything I've ever tried from the places I usually frequent in the greater San Diego area, which are only 10 to 20 miles inland, have tasted superb. Throughout my post I was really speaking of these inland areas, such as La Mesa, El Cajon, etc., which the Sunset Western Garden Book calls zone 23.

The really nice thing about this area is that the climate is so variable. Within a relatively short drive in San Diego county they grow world-class apples and stone fruit (up around Julian), as well as the citrus, olives, avocados, and such already mentioned, and the luxuriant tropicals along the frost-free coast.

I would definitely take all the variety of fruits over a few of the temperate ones, even if they were my favorites. I would just drive up into the mountains for those.

Mango: you're also correct about this being marginal at best in SD, but the SWGB says that although the plant remains shrubby there and the fruit does not color well, it's quality can still be excellent.

In closing: part of the point to my post is not only how much is possible in that climate, but how much and what kind of diversity is actually grown. I think many places in the country could be as impressive fruit-wise in their own way if people really tapped into the potential.

I've always heard that Fallbrook in northern SD County (about 20 miles inland) is world class for all sorts of fruit (yes including mango AND temperate fruits like apples and pears)...

Below is a blurb from the Blue Heron Farm B and B in fallbrook, which gives a nice description of the climate and the fruits they grow...

"Coastal breezes keep the farm cool in the summer and relatively warm in the winter. The 650-foot elevation puts it out of the coastal fog zone. The result of the unusual climate zone is that a wide variety of fruits and vegetables can be grown. The farm's main product is baby lettuce which is produced all year. In addition, a bounty of fruits are grown, including many kinds of citrus, pomegranates, figs, apples, cherimoyas, macadamia nuts, sapotes, jujubes, pears, mangoes, bananas, avocadoes, and several varieties of guavas."

I know they did not mention any stone fruit, but it doesn't get much better than that, does it?

fabaceae native:

I would love to grow fruit about 10 miles inland from SD where it's warm enough but not boiling hot in summer. There would be lots of fellow fruit lovers to associate with and share. Not sure I could hack all the traffic, congestion, taxes etc.

Fruitnut, you really do know your stuff. I would add Mountain View south to San Jose.

Israel seems to grow just about everything, including mangoes and bananas. Not sure if they can grow coconuts or any other tropical that needs humidity. They can bring peaches to the market long before most places in the N Hemisphere.

One of the most striking features of the CA climate is that lowland areas have the best climates and longest growing seasons in the country. Above 1500 ft elevation the climates become much like the rest of the intermountain US. Yreka 2625ft and 147 days frost free, Susanville 4148ft and 105 days, Tehachapi 3975ft and 163 days.

These don't compare very favorably with Santa Fe NM, Palisade CO, or Alpine TX all at higher elevations.

I believe growing days are just one part of the equation. Cool nights can be important quality issues for many apple varieties and I bet other fruits. Obviously citrus colors better with some cool evenings but I don't know how much it affects the quality of fruits besides apples. There's always going to be trade offs. I was thinking more in terms of about 2,000 ft elevation but I am not at all expert on this issue.

I know that Santa Fe is not exactly a fruit Mecca and I've never thought of growing days as being so important for temperate fruit after a certain point. Frost free is not nearly as important as predictable frost.

May I add my insignificant opinion? The best place in the country to grow fruit is in your own back yard. There may be places where the conditions are better, but you've got to work with what you have. No matter where you live, there is no better fruit than the fruit you grow yourself. Ted

Best place to grow fruit is almost always in your own back yard!!

i agree with backyard, and i'm lucky to have a backyard in San Jose...

I live about 15 miles inland in San Diego. Everything I have planted over the past few years has thrived. Tropical guavas, citrus, pluots/plums, apricots/apriums, peaches, nectarines, grapes, low chill cherries, blueberries, persimmons, asian pears, and pomegranates have all done well.

I just bought a second home in Julian where I am in the process of planting various cherries, apples, and pears. The nice thing is that it is less than an hour from my primary residence and it gets 1000+ chill hours. My primary residence gets about 300-400. Between the two there are a lot of options.

The trees in both locations are very young so the hardest part is waiting for the trees to mature.

Econ that sounds great. I wonder how much your new property cost you. S. CA fell out of my price range a few decades ago- but I'd want to be close to the ocean if I was there.

I was raised in CA in Topanga Canyon which runs up from the coast between Santa Monica and Malibu. My home was high enough to avoid a lot of the coastal fog but it was far from ideal for growing fruit if only because of the ground squirrels and gophers. Insects and fungus are easier to kill than ground squirrels.

Sounds like a good setup econ. How much fruit have you had so far?

Julian is a good example of a ~4,000ft climate in CA. It's not really that cold in winter, about 52/28F in Dec/Jan. But frost can come very early in fall and last late into spring. Only July and August have never had a freeze. The real freezes, 24-28F, might not come late enough in spring to hurt things very often. But there is frost later than many places. Probably later than in NY.

Here is a link that might be useful: Julian climate

Well, this has turned into an interesting thread. It's nice to hear from someone actually in SD county as well. It's certainly true that Southern California is crowded and expensive, which are two of the reasons I don't live there.

Fruitnut's right about the California mountains having a relatively short growing season compared to higher inland areas. I used to live at 4,500 feet in the San Jacinto mountains of Riverside County, where we probably never dropped below 20 degrees, but had frost on the car from September through June, and wet snow possible anywhere in there as well. Here in Santa Fe, about 2,500 feet higher, we always have a longer frost free period, even with much harsher winters.

I don't really understand tree fruits enough to know how each of these factors affects them, but I know the warm season vegetable garden really lives by the length of the growing season, more than anything else.

Your own backyard is certainly the most rewarding place to grow fruit, if also challenging and frustrating at times. As far as success with a wide variety of species, until I have a greenhouse, I guess I will just have to continue to experiment. Unfortunately soon my successes may be outweighed by the failures (the following, although sufficiently cold hardy, so far appear unsuited to my growing conditions: maypop, pawpaw, wineberry, hardy kiwi, Asian persimmon, fig).

Thanks for all the interesting replies...

I'm very surprised that you've had problems with Wineberries. They are the most invasive fruit-producing plant that I've ever seen. When I first moved in, I pulled all weeds except for them, as I couldn't bring myself to pull up berry plants. Now, I've have to revise my policy, or my entire yard would be covered in them (and they have some nasty thorns). They even sprang up in the kids playground, right through the wood-chips.

I checked the Weather Channel and our climates are pretty close in temperature. It is a bit wetter here- ~4"/month year-round, while you get .5-2", but I'm sure watering a bit could fix that. Maybe it is the type of soil?

Bob

Harvestman: You think the big problem with Sierra foothills is BEARS??? LOL
Not that they have never seen a bear in the foothills, but seriously, I can remember maybe one report on the news in the almost 13 years I have lived in Sacramento of a bear coming down from the mountains. Deer--absolutely! but there are no rampaging herds of bears at the 500-2000 foot level where most of the orchards are grown. (Now Lake Tahoe is a whole 'nother can of worms, it does have a serious bear problem, but that is mountain territory at 6000-7000 feet.)
I think we have the ideal climate here between Sacramento and Chico for hobby fruit growing--warm summer days with nights cooling off to bring out the highest of sugars in the fruit, and no rain to bring diseases, and plenty of winter chill hours for almost any fruit. And with a little care, you can grow almost everything, including all citrus and many avocados. (I want to try and see if I can even get a date tree to grow, but that is a little risky.) And we have nowhere near the congestion that has consumed Southern California, where I escaped from.

Carla in Sac

In California the Santa Clara valley has the best soil and climate for growing fruit and was once covered with orchards. About 70 years ago a growing population preferred asphalt to soil and it began paving it over. Many of the growers moved to the Chico area, and in time that area will probably be paved as well. Al

Al-

Maybe with the skyrocketing price of some foods (most foods!) that could change. I see China is importing a lot of pricey California tree nuts, something that only really grows in that climate (pistachio).

Al,
That's the sad story of disappearing farmland across this country. In parts of Europe centuries ago this problem was already understood so that building was confined to hilltops away from prime agricultural land. Here, we've preserved non-agricultural land well (our mountain and wilderness areas) but built our cities on the best land to grow our food. Maybe backyard, rooftop, roadside, and community gardens and orchards can be seen as a way of restoring at least a sliver of that.

Bob,
I haven't given up on wineberries, and they may still prove successful here, but the high elevation intense sunlight, wide temperature swings, and low humidity just prove too difficult for some plants. The soil does not seem to be a problem for most things, as long as they are tolerant of some clay.

Sautesmom, why the ridicule? Why the annoying LOL cliche and exclamation points? Bears do exist in the Sierra foothills although higher up than I thought- at about 4,000 ft the foothills become part of their range in Central CA.

I have memory of reading a complaint of a fruit grower who only identified his location as the Sierra foothills lamenting extreme damage by bear on his fruit trees. I guess I multiplied that in my mind to "many locations" because of experiences with black bears in Yosemite in my youth.

Further north bears are common all the way down to the coast throughout the CA coastal range and my sister in Eureka has suffered major damage from them. Here in southeastern NY they've become a pest for me as well.

I apologize in advance if you had no intention of being offensive. It's pretty easy to misinterpret tone when there is no tone communicated. I don't think my comment was exactly "laugh out loud" funny, though. It was actually not even inaccurate, only misleading.

Thanks for helping me get my facts straight, though. You inspired me to look up the CA range of black bear.

Al,

I've been in Santa Clara Valley (San Jose) for 8 years or so and it's interesting talking some of the older generation to hear what San Jose/Silicon Valley was like before the boom. Apricots and Cherries were very big here (as a matter of fact my old time neighbor told me the Water District Percolation ponds/school behind our houses were actually a cherry orchard before that, about 60 years ago). We live in track housing and every third house has the same layout as ours. This place was paved over in the 1950's. The concrete was much higher quality back then, and they put it everywhere.

Here is a link that might be useful: The Valley of Heart's Delight

Harvestman,
The house in Julian was 440k. It seems like a lot but the previous owner had almost twice that much into it. My wife and I split it four ways with other family members so it isn't too expensive.
I have already noticed a pocket gopher problem. There were some young fruit trees left behind by the previous owner. Some of them laying on their sides due to pocket gopher damage. I bought some tree sized gopher baskets to plant with the new trees. I hope this stops the gophers from killing the trees.

Fruitnut,
Eveything with the exception of the cherries, plums/pluots, apricots/apriums have set more fruit than the trees can handle. I have been removing most of the fruit depending on the size of the tree. I've had some of the cherries, plums/pluots, apricot /apriums trees set fruit. The fruit has been sweet and flavorful. Much better than I expected for the first few years.
Good point about the late frosts. Last year I asked a Julian orchard owner why there are no cherry orchards in the area. He explained that the area will get a late frost once in a while. This is why they grow mostly pears and apples. Not a big deal for a backyard hobbyist but if your income depends on it then it is a different story.

I'm an east coast man but in my dreams I'm still a CA boy. I'd like to be there growing fruit- even the part of taking on ground squirrels and gophers. To complete the dream, I'd have to be within about 20 minutes of a good surf break.

I'm in zone 9 of Florida which is a pretty good place to grow things. Cool enough for most things that need chill hours, like berries and you can even grow a few different apple varieties here. But at the same time warm enough for tropicals.

And when there are freezes you can use a greenhouse, bring plants in, or protect them in other ways. It's just some big strictly tropical trees you couldn't grow, like Rambutan, Durian, breadfruit, etc.

I'm voting for my place cause I'm here.....when tornado season starts up again next Spring I might change my vote.

Fruitnut, mentioned that mangoes produce well in California... I tasted some organic keitt mangoes from Coachella Valley (Indio, CA), they were excellent. I would rate them a solid +8 out of 10 on taste. I have seen well established mango trees loaded with good sized fruit, from Los Angeles down to San Diego. From what I can see the fruit is picked and eaten. I would only try mangoes if its in an inland SoCal location.

Having grown up in Southern California my whole life and still currently living here. There is not many other places, I would consider living due to my huge interest growing edible plants.

The best growing areas are usually the avocado and citrus belts of Southern California. Low elevation inland coastal (5-10mi) areas from Santa Barbara down to San Diego are prime growing areas. Inland low elevation valley areas from Orange County, Riverside County, and San Diego are also excellent.

My favorite growing areas are in Orange County (Irvine, Mission Viejo, and surrounding areas) Santa Ana (surrounding areas), Fallbrook, Bonsall, and Temecula (North San Diego inland areas). Coastal inland areas (about 5 mi from Ocean) from Santa Monica down to San Diego.

These areas you can grow almost anything with limited pests, with the introduction of new low chill varieties good non spray apples, cherries, and stone fruits are possible. I only find chill hours a setback with a few crops like cherries, nuts, gooseberries, and currents. Most of the Southern California locations get around 300 chill hours which is enough to satisfy most fruits.

Saving up for some land eventually, the best deals are in North San Diego county, and Riverside county.

Yes, So Cal is the best (generally speaking) for produce, while some colder/hoter climate produce won't grow as well here most will. If I recall, one of the largest industries in the state is still agriculture (I think we still produce more almonds and olive than any place on earth and have more/better peaches than Georgia)

I think one of the reasons why many of the homes here are able to have such prolific gardens is that most of the places were farms and were converted into homes as demand went up.

I'm not ready to proclaim So Cal the best place in US to grow fruit. Maybe it is but I'd rather have more chilling. That means farther north in CA. Either around San Jose or in the central valleys between the Visalia to Sacramento areas. The commercial stone fruit industry is centered around Reedley which is between Fresno and Visalia. Zaiger's operation is around Modesto.

These northern areas still have a growing season of about 275 days and seldom drop below 24F, most years 27-28F is as cold as it gets. I was there 4 years and had no losses to freezes, hail, wind, or any other environmental issue. Real estate is generally cheaper in the central valleys than SocaL.

The best place for apples, pear, and sweet cherry is WA state and a few very small areas in states like CO, UT, ID, and OR.

Fruit-

What about Texas? There must be areas that can grow a large variety of fruits? I would assume Texas would be cheaper place to live then California.

The fact is that you can grow a wide variety of fruits in a lot of the US.

Personally I think an area by Lake Michigan (the Wisconsin side gets more winter sunshine) would be ideal (Michigan is a huge producer of many fruits).

Frank:

There is no place east of the rockies that even comes close in my opinion. Ya I'm in a good place...for a greenhouse. But compared to CA, well there's no comparison. When I lived in Amarillo I often said that we get more bad weather in April than CA gets all year. Most years that was certainly true.

Around lake MI you are looking at a 4 month shorter growing season and what you have is not nearly as good as CA.

What I loved about CA is you had a long dry warm summer season that was ideal for ripening high quality fruit. Then you had a mild winter with some rain where everything greened up. It was like another summer only better in many ways than the real summer. You harvested citrus and many other fruits and harvested your cool season vegetables. I harvested sweet peas all winter just for an example.

Around here all winter is good for is wind and drought. My peas, the one year I tried them were froze out in early November.

Fruitnut, "I'm not ready to proclaim So Cal the best place in US to grow fruit. Maybe it is but I'd rather have more chilling. That means farther north in CA. Either around San Jose or in the central valleys between the Visalia to Sacramento areas."

'in the central valleys'- You mean urban sprawl,water rationing, toxic soil, dry, persistent heat, worst air quality in America should not stop anyone from growing the best possible backyard pluots.

ace:

Can't argue with that. I was pointing out the best climate. If you consider all the other things that might fit into where one lives, then there will be lots of different answers.

I left CA because the poor air quality was hurting my health. Still miss it just the same. I had an absolutely beautiful place on the banks of the Kings river. Plus a creek thru the front yard and ponds behind the house. All surrounded by valley oaks with 3-6ft trunks. The hiking and wildlife were amazing.

Obviously there are other places in the world with similar climates. I would think parts in Italy, Spain, Greece, Turkey, Iran, Chile, S Africa and so on would have climates agreeable to growing a wide variety of fruits.

Ace, if you start to factor in the rest of living in CA or any other place the question becomes much too complicated and not really about fruit. I have lots of complaints about CA or I'd still live there. I miss the CA that my family moved to in 1963- not so much the one that exists today or even the one I left in the mid '70s. The smog was actually worse then, though.

As a compulsive grower I love the break the seasons give me. Winter is when I rest up and refresh- sure, I'm still pruning every working day but the days are short and there's nothing to water when I get home even if it was light. Spring is such a green surge it always tops the excitement charts compared to CA's endless growing season.

Harvest, your perspective was enlightening, thanks.

Fruitnut, visiting California for two weeks last January I enjoyed every minute of sights, hospitality and the CRFG scion exchanges. There are lots of beautiful places to live and grow fruit. This year my Flavor King tree was loaded and no cracking. The brix was 17, not mega rich like yours but very good. It rained and rained before harvest and still no cracking. I am thinking the maturity of the tree helps.

harvestman,

I think you hit the nail on the head with the seasons thing. I know I would not mind having a super mild winter, no snow, etc., but the spring's green surge as you call it is pretty incredible in cold winter climates.

Another thing I would definitely miss about the weather is summer thunderstorms. Here in NM we have our second spring when the summer monsoon gets underway in July and August. I'm not sure how I would like the dry summer season in CA year after year. In San Diego area and near the coast it would not be bad, but in the Central Valley or the Desert where it is furnace hot every day, forget about it!

Maine is not to bad for some fruit. When I burn my fields the weed that comes back is blueberry, when you cut the wooded areas it comes back to rasberry and blackberry first, birds start apple seedlings for root stock all over. By November I am tired of the gardens and start picking fir tips for wreath brush. January is cutting firewood , Febuary is pruning , April the plowing starts. ANC order ships the 15th and it starts all over.

When I was a gardener in S. CA it seemed like I was always under drought stress. It would drive me absolutely crazy waiting for rain.

Having rain all year long may not be helpful to many aspects of fruit growing but plants need water and in the climate here in the northeast my well has never run dry and a drought has never lasted more than 2 or 3 months since I've moved here. Maybe I could grow better quality fruit in S. CA but I enjoy the fruit I grow just as much here.