You know what. Thats a great looking piece of equipment you got there Saxman. I guess I don't care if its two or four stroke as long as its a quality piece. This to me looks like a well built piece of machinery.

The only issue I might have with it might be the fuel capacity. Unless they managed to really hide an oversize tank, this one looks small.

Have fun with it!

Neal

The tank holds a quart. The engine is pretty good on fuel, being CARB compliant. In fact, the choke is required to restart if its cut off for more than a few minutes. Even on choke it doesn't blow gas smoke so its lean all the way around. This doesn't seem to affect power or operation in any other way. Its just a quiet, smooth mower. And heavy. I imagine the 22270 pusher will give a pretty good workout. When I go to the 10684 after using it, it feels very light. That 106xx series is hard to beat for a mid-range residential mower. On the 22271 my favorite thing is the logo on the front - its not a decal or paint - it was cast into the deck, then ground off after painting, leaving the grain of the milling machine which really catches the light. The GSV 190 is truly commercial grade with iron sleeve and ball-bearing crank. I'm glad I took a chance on it. Here's the pair, and I hope they're both around as long as I am!

Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:126956}}

saxman:

It appears the 22271 is equipped with a handle mounted throttle control lever rather than fixed throttle on the 10684. After using both machines, which throttle configuration do you prefer...user adjustable or non-adjustable?

Machs Nichts. The 22271 has to have it because it's a choke-start engine. I never use any mower except at full-throttle, so no hand throttle is needed. Still, it is another toy to play with but I would never buy a mower because of only that. Since today's mowers are set at lower RPM than full throttle on mowers from 25 years ago, there certainly is never a need to make it run slower, so the 'set' throttle is fine. Back in those days, full-throttle could easily be nearly 4000 RPM, so you could easily throttle back and still cut regular grass, having reserve power when you needed it. Plus, you could make fine adjustments on the mixture, going a little rich when heavy cutting was expected. This is how we got by with 3.5 HP! Today's heavily-controlled and regulated mowers are nowhere near the fun of the old ones, but in fact they are far superior in doing the job they are designed for. Amazingly, a bottom-line basic mower today costs the same as it did in 1970 - about $100.

Hey Saxman!
How does this mower compare to a duraforce or f engine 3 speed machine? I own a 22261 and have used and owned a 10515 f engine machine and have been thinking of adding either a 22271 or 22243 machine to my collection. I currently have way too many two stroke boys and am thinking of relegating more of those to ebay if I can find a nice comm 4 stroker.
A few more questions for you to answer, please? How easy is it to vary speeds with this machine? Is high speed close to jogging speed like on a 3 speed Lawnboy? Did you consider the briggs powered machine before deciding on this and what made you chose this over that one if you did? I assume you at least thought about the 22243? Thanks!

-Dave

'I assume you at least thought about the 22243'

You thought wrong. I don't even know what it is. There was no comparison shopping involved because there is no other comparable mower.

There is also no comparison possible between 4-cycle and 2-cycle mowers - different strokes for different folks.

Top speed on this 'Variable Speed' machine is fast, but I just walk faster. Speeds are easier to modulate than I was expecting, although the handle/bail is not as ergonomic as the 10864. The 22271 drive bail is still easy to reach with the thumbs. I guess it would be up to the operator as to how 'easy' it is to 'feather' the bail to go slower. I am so glad they did not put 'Sens a Speed' on the 22271. The great thing about Variable Speed is you can turn it off by simply letting go of the bail, and it's instantly a push mower for those difficult push-pull areas.

The 22243 is the B&S 4 cycle LB 3 speed comm with the staggered deck. The 22243 was readily available up until recently so I assumed (apparently not) you MAY have looked at that. I've been pondering both. The one thing that bothers me about the 22271 is that I believe (not sure) there's only a one year residential warranty on that machine but there's a five year warranty on the platinum. What's the reasoning behind that? Goofy.

Glad you like your machine.

1 year commercial and 2 year homeowner. The problem is they don't trust anyone to not use it commercially, so they don't really want to go with a 3 or 5 year warranty. 'Commercial' includes you cutting any other lawn but the one at your residence.
I no longer have any interest in a staggered-wheel deck which is why I got rid of my 2-cycle LBs and why I did not consider the other LB commercial.
I think the 10795 Platinum is a cool mower, but I wanted to go all the way just once LOL!

Okie dokie. Sorry if it seemed like I was trying to start a staggered vs. standard or 2 cycle vs. 4 cycle war. Not my intent. I'm just curious about the "dark side" of the force as I've been using two strokes for about 23 years (i started mowing lawns at age ten)...

Maybe the two stroke is the "dark side" so no offense again...

Grn68rt, Take a look at the Toro 22189 if you want a nice commercial four stroke.

6hp Kawi, three speed and the "M" deck on red. I think you would like it.

Neal

Here is a link that might be useful: Toro mower

It's gotta be green for me, Indy. Anyhow, I should probably focus on fixing what I have for now but it's nice to windowshop and ask questions in case a used one comes around. I've never seen a self propelled one for sale used or in any of the mower shops new. It will probably be awhile before a used one is available around here...

I just got off the lawn after my first cut with the 22271 and thought I would chime in with some observations on the new machine and comparisons to the 10515. Now I understand why you guys have more than one machine. The contrast between the 4-cycle and 2-cycle engines is striking. The Honda GSV 180 is so smooth and quiet that after awhile I was missing the scream of the old f-engine. I thought I would miss the staggered deck, but found the 22271 executed turns easier probably with help from the wide BB wheels. In a drag race, I think the 10515 would smoke the 22271, but with that said, I much prefer speed modulation of the Variable Speed transmission over the old 3-Speed - it's so smooth and seamless. I agree with Saxman that the bail control could be a little more ergonomic, but I had no problem operating it with either thumbs or finger tips. My only gripe would be the lack of foam or rubber cushioning on the bare metal handle/bail. The purchase of the 22271 was a stretch for me, but the mowing experience is actually fun now, almost zen-like. That's worth something. Still, it would be a blast from the past to pull out a 2-cycle commercial every now and then.

indy452,
That Toro 22189 is a mammoth of a mower at 124 lbs. I was looking at the Toro 22164 (Kaw 179, Sensi-speed, no bag, and 89 lbs), but could not find a good deal on one locally.

Saxman!
Please help me understand the purpose of the "turtle" throttle setting on the 22271. The GSV 180 manual says to lower the throttle setting to slow before shutting off while the 22271 manual makes no mention of this. I noticed that my 22271 stalls after a few minutes on slow idle - not sure what to make of this.

Lbjohn, thanks for the nice review. Its great to hear from someone who gives pros and cons of both. I agree the 22189 is heavy and if you were to use it in commercial setting (like intended) a person would almost have to use a trailer with a ramp. I used my pickup bed for years and that gets to your back after a days work. I couldn't imagine lifting this Toro into a pickup bed.

Neal

Sax...what happened. The statement about no longer having any interest in 2 strokes or staggered decks. For many years you have been praising staggered decks (better on roots, less tire ruts, tangental discharge, etc). And even claimed the 10550 as possibly being the best mower ever made. And you sold that, and the others. This makes me sad. Why the instantaneous turn around?

lbjohn;
It's traditional for commercial mowers to have a hand throttle, which works out well on this choke-start engine. There is no use for the idle setting except to slow the engine down before releasing the engine control bail to extend engine brake life. You could just as well slowly release the bail until the ignition cuts off and just let the engine coast down. Mine also would quit after idling for a few seconds until I got a few hours on it. Extended idling is never good for any engine because of reduced oiling and cooling. There's really no need to run the engine any less than full throttle (at the 'fast' notch).

parkplaza;
True, I was infatuated with the 10550 at first, but as they say, 'Familiarity breeds contempt' (the cause of most divorces/murders). The Duraforce was loud. I got sick of the exhaust (not the same sweet aroma as the underdeck muffler). The offset wheel deck never really worked in my yard for various reasons. I grew to despise Sensa Speed, and got mad every time I used the mower. I'll miss it, but I won't miss the aggravation.

I agree with saxman that the sensaspeed or "easy stride" on that 10550 model is aggravating to use. The first time I used one I got a large blister on my thumb from the machine recoiling everytime I disengaged the self propel. I will still buy them, however, but only to resell them! I also concur that the above deck muffler on the duraforce is way too loud in comparison to any of the below (most) deck muffled LBs... I have

SAXMAN: I have tried one 22271, and the first impression I got is that it is way too "front" heavy, at least compared to my Duraforce mowers.

Have you found that it gets tiring to maneuver it around, make turns, etc., with so much more weight on the front end?

Thanks.

Yes, that should have been 'Easy Stride' on the 10550.

If the 22271 is front-heavy, I hadn't noticed, but I'm glad of it. Playing around in the store with a Toro SR4, I was amazed at how light the front end was with an empty bag! The 22271 handles great with a heavy bag. Hey, there's no contest between this mower and practically any 2-cycle as far as weight and manueverability, but sometimes extra weight is not a bad thing. I find the 22271 bounces less and tracks straighter than anything I've used before.

The 22271 has two settings for adjusting the rake of the handle. I found the lowermost setting gave me better leverage in turning the mower and minimized the sensation of weight.

Checking mine, I found that I set my handle in the upper position when I assembled it, and I haven't noticed the 'heavy front end' when manuevering. I am also not tall. I guess it's just what you get used to. The only thing I've noticed is the mower in general is not as 'nimble' as the 10684 which is lighter and has the smaller, wider and rounded front wheels. The 22271 wants to go in a straight line and requires more input when following a curve. Regular corners and turnarounds are no problem - it doesn't seem to be difficult to push down the handle and get the front wheels off the ground for the pivot. As great as the 22271 is, I have to say that the 10684 is a very 'user-friendly' mower. I always feel proud to roll either one out when everybody else is using their red, dark green, orange, yellow and black MTDs. Of course, it's a select group that will recognize the green deck and red wheels of a Lawn-Boy commercial, and I don't think anybody around here is a member. Some might notice a 2-cycle LB if it's smoking or if they hear it, but not many.

Saxman, I was just wondering how the 22271 experience has been now that you've had the chance to use it for a couple of months. I was originally looking at the 10785 when I came across the 22271. What a lovely machine! Just wondering is it really worth an extra $300 premium?

In a nutshell, it's great. It's my idea of the perfect 4-cycle mower. Of course, I used similar language in 2004 when I first got the LB 10550, but I'm confident I will never run into the kind of problems with the 22271 as I did with the 10550. The 22271 is everything the 10550 wasn't - dependable, predictable, reliable and boring. I think maybe 'boring' is good with a mower - you get to relax and think of pleasant things while using it rather than irritating things like how to plan the cut to account for the stupid offset wheel, or maybe how many ways there are to destroy a mower and have fun doing it.

Is the top speed of the 22271, similar to the 10323 variable speed. I find the top speed of the 10323 a tad too slow.

I know you do - you have been posting that for years. I would say the gearing is the same as any other Variable Speed. Engine RPM are controlled, and the mower goes about the same speed, so the only other variable is the gearing. I would like to speed up the engine just a tad, but I'd have to feather the drive bail if the mower went any faster. Have you tried bumping the RPM of your 10323 up to 3400?

yeah...tried that. I just can't see how that speed would be appropriate for commercial application. I would rather have the the easy stride than variable speed 10323. Using both, the 10323 is just too slow. And the system is really just ON or OFF, you cannot feather too slow to too too slow (that would really be "stop" then). This is the a BIG flaw on this mower than.

I don't see Variable Speed the way you do, and really enjoy using it. I can feather the bail for any speed down to dead slow if needed. Max speed is all I can use, and is usually a little fast for the best mulching.