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mattv21

Results of Comparison Betwen Torco GP-7 and Mobil1 2T Oils

mattv21
16 years ago

You all may recall that Echoman recently "sponsored" a few bottles of Torco GP-7 2-cycle oil to find out how several of us would like it compared to the Mobil1 2T oil that is becoming known as "the best." I have now had a chance to do a fairly well controlled comparison of Torco GP-7 and Mobil 1 T2 2-cycle oils. At Echoman's request, I've posted my results here in a new thread, and I would encourage the others who've made comparisons to follow up here. So without further adieu, let's get to the procedures and results.

***Procedures***

The primary test mule has been my fairly new (about 5 hours total run time) Redmax BCZ2400S string trimmer. This is a commercial-duty, 300-hr rated (highest service rating) 2-cycle trimmer that meets EPA Phase II and Carb Tier II emissions specs without a catalytic converter. I mention this as it is a little bit unique in its induction and combustion process. But it is in all ways a true 2-cycle and I think without a catalytic converter it may be a better test of the gasoline mix one uses in it. I used this trimmer with the OE line head, both to trim grass after mowing and also to clear some light brush around my wooded backyard property line. As a secondary test mule, I also used my 14-year-old Echo PB2100, which is a hand-held two-cycle blower with the well-known Kioritz 2-cycle motor. In both power tools, the control oil is Echo synthetic 2-cycle oil which is specified at a 50:1 mix. I have used this oil in all my 2-cycle tools for least 14 years (since becoming a homeowner). I ran both test oils at 50:1, since my equipment specifies that and in order to be consistent with my years of prior use of the Echo oil. In each engine, I tested the two oils on new spark plugs. I accumulated about two hours of trimmer use with the Mobil 2T, and about 1 hour so far with Torco GP-7. In the blower, I have considerably less time on each: about 60 minutes with the Mobil, and about 30 minutes with the Torco.

I do not have a means to accurately measure engine wear or temperatures, so I am not evaluating these oils on those variables. My prior reading - especially on www.bobistheoilguy.com - lead me to believe that the Echo brand has been pretty good at minimizing wear and friction for years, and that the Mobil and Torco are both sate of the art in those regards. I have no doubt that by using either of the new test oils my engines are now enjoying the best lubrication possible. I also have no way to accurately measure power differences. At 50:1, all three oils still provide the same amount of gasoline to be burned in one ignition cycle, and since I did not change the mixtures at all, I assume the same number of BTUs are available (and therefore power). I suppose its possible that either of the test oils could burn quickly enough to provide significant additional BTUs themselves, but I am skeptical because it would result in a leaner running engine. ItÂs also possible that these oils reduced friction enough to free up more power to the crankshaft. I am not sure how much frictional force occurs inside these engines at max speeds, so IÂm not sure how much lost power could potentially be freed in this manner. I did evaluate the oils on the following variables: idle and running characteristics, smoke under various running conditions, odor perceived by me while operating the equipment, odor and film left on _me_ after operating the equipment, and residue left on the equipment immediately after running and several days later after storage.

The Echo 2-cycle oil is well known to many of us. While it does an adequate job of protecting motors as far as I know, it does produce some smoke. It also creates that familiar "2-cycle smell" that most people associate with all 2-stroke motors. I have always found that after using any of my 2-cycle equipment for even just a few minutes, I am covered with an oily film that smells just like that smoke. ItÂs not only on my skin, but also in my clothes, and it doesnÂt disappear on its own. I have also consistently observed a thick, oily residue of a gray-green color in the mufflers of any lawn equipment using this oil. This gets messy, especially if the equipment is hung in a way that leaves the muffler outlet facing downward. ItÂs been way too long since IÂve used a dino-based 2-cycle oil, but I can only assume that the Echo synthetic is better in these aspects than the old non-synth oils. I know it protects better under a wider range of temperatures.

***Results from Mobil 2T***

The first of the test oils I tried was Mobil 1 Racing 2T. I've already posted in another thread how impressive this oil is. So have many others. Here is the specific details of my experience with the 2T.

*Idle and running characteristics: The trimmer idles very, very smoothly and carburets cleanly with this oil. Granted that this is all subjective, but it does seem to run smoother and with more refinement with T2 than with Echo oil. I donÂt really have a great way to measure power  someone with a sensitive and reliable electronic tach might want to compare these mixes with a blower, since the load would be constant. But one would have to be careful to match ambient conditions to have valid results.

*Smoke under various running conditions: Wow, what a difference! No smoke visible at all under any conditions I could replicate. Now the Redmax was pretty good about smoke even with the Echo, but the white-blue smoke we all associate with 2-cycles was there nonetheless. And it was more prevalent with my Echo equipment. To have no smoke at all with the 2T oil is like having a whole new 2-cycle technology!

*Odor while operating the equipment: Again, huge differences compared to the Echo oil. Overall amounts of odor are way, way less than with typical Echo and mineral oils. There is a bit of odor that I get occasional whiffs of, but itÂs very mild and nothing like the constant assault on my nose that lesser oils cause. And when I do smell it, the type of odor is really different: itÂs kind of a sweet smell that is pretty easy to live with, perhaps like some kind of scented candle or even new electronics (like walking into a high-end stereo shop). And again one only smells it occasionally at all.

*Odor and film left on _me_: Massive improvement! After 30 minutes of heavy trimming using the 2T I had no oily film on my anywhere, and no odor on me or my clothes (which I assume is usually a result of the film of oil residue left on me). Compared to the Echo oil, this is a revelation. I never minded smelling the 2-cycle smoke that much, but I did mind smelling like the smoke when I came back in the house. This is possibly the most important improvement I have noticed using the 2T.

*Residue left on the equipment: Huge improvement again over the Echo and lesser brands. 2T burns cleanly enough that it seems to leave virtually no gooey, gloppy green/black liquid residue in the muffler. After I take the equipment out following a week of storage, there is no slime. Awesome!

***Results with the Torco GP-7***

Okay, with respect to the Torco GP-7, I am leaving out the comparisons to Echo and other lesser oils. I would just be repeating myself because the Torco is playing in the Mobil 1 league. So IÂm going to limit the results from the GP-7 to a comparison with the 2T. As you will see, there are not a lot of differences to describe.

*Idle and running characteristics: Equal to the 2T in every way. If there are any differences, they are too small for me to detect. Excellent!

*Smoke under various running conditions: No smoke (sound familiar?) at all! You canÂt do better than that, and both oils are perfect in this regard.

*Odor while operating the equipment: Hmmm, interesting differences here. I _think_ there may be even less odor with GP-7 than with 2T. They both cause detectable odor in my equipment only very occasionally, when the wind blows the right way or I walk through my own exhaust. The quality of this odor is pretty much like Echo and other "normal" 2-cycle oils. You recognize it as 2-cycle exhaust, whereas if you smelled the 2TÂs exhaust odor without hearing the equipment running you wouldnÂt have a clue what the odor was. So T2 has just a little sweet odor, whereas GP-7 has even less odor that is similar in smell to other oils. Depending on what you like, this could be advantage T2 or GP-7. They are different, but one is not clearly better than the other IMO.

*Odor and film left on _me_: Just like the T2, there is no odor or film on my clothes or myself when IÂm done using the equipment. Another tie of perfection!

*Residue left on the equipment: In two weeks of typical use for my trimmer and blower, IÂve seen one drop of glop from a muffler. ThatÂs one more than I noticed with T2, but the difference and sample size is so small that it is insignificant. Both are so much cleaner in residue compared to other oils that I canÂt call a definite winner here, although we are just shy of perfection (which would be zero residue under all conditions).

***Summary***

I declare a tie. The oils are not _exactly_ the same in performance, although they are significantly different only in the exhaust odor. And even there I did not find an advantage of one over the other  only differences. In most ways I can test, both oils are equally perfect, and both are such vast improvements over other oils that they completely change the experience of using 2-cycle equipment. In fact, if these had been available 40 years ago I think the publicÂs perception of 2-cycle engines would be altogether better. Having the choice of two excellent products like this is an embarrassment of riches for anyone using 2-cycle small lawn equipment (i.e., most of us). I think anyone owes it to themselves to try this. For anyone still using a 2-cycle mowerÂfrankly youÂd be crazy not to try at least one of these oils. These should be considered mandatory equipment for 2-cycle mowers! It would be very interesting to see emissions tests of a 2-cycle engine using various oils. I wonder if any of the three pollutant gasses (HC, NOx, and CO) would be improved, as well as sulfur and particulate emissions? Anyway, buy one or both of these oils and prepare yourself for a whole new 2-cycle experience.

Comments (4)

  • echoman
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks for all the details Matt! I totally agree with you in that if many would switch to using these types of oils, and there are a few REALLY good ones out there, it would make owning a 2 stroke and using them under all kinds of conditions that much more pleasurable, epecially in terms of personal and equipment cleanliness! You simply can't beat this new oil technology! It will cost more, but what the heck??!! What DOESN'T cost more these days?.

  • lawnmowerdan
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    i agree with matt in every way after my tests also . this using hand held 2 cycle equiptment . still to come -my lawnboy tests

  • 1saxman
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Of course the ultimate test is long-term engine life, and that's going to take some time! Thanks for the report. I've had similar results for many years with Opti-2, which is not synthetic (at 66:1).

  • yungman
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I recently try both Echo Power Blend and Mobil Racing 2T. I ran both in my new Shindaiwa C4 blower. I have been talking about this on other post here already. I mix about 32:1 on all.
    1) When I first bought the blower, the dealer put a tank of gas mix and I finish it. I check the plug only. It was covered with black corbon. I did not clean the plug, just put it back.
    2) I use Echo Power Blend at 32:1 and ran 3 to 4 tankful ( 1.5 hrs. ) I pull plug, the plug became mid brownish color. Much better looking. The black carbon was gone. Nice and Dry. I took the muffler off, inside muffler looked ok. There was corbon cover the heat shield, I wiped it up and put them all back.
    3) I ran one tankful of Mobil 2T at about 35:1. I pull the plug and notice the plug get very dark, almost black and a little oily. I pull the muffler and looked like more carbon. The heat shield cover with carbon. Not thick but noticable. I open the valve cover ( it is a 4 cycle engine) and see a lot of oil, dripping amount.
    4) I use Q-tips, clean the inside of the muffler as much as possible. It was black. I clean the inside the exhause port best I can. Clean the heat shield and put everything back. This time I go back to Echo Power Blend and 44:1.

    I'll update you when the next time I open up. From the little time I have with the two oil. I feel Echo is much better than Mobil 2T at 32:1 ratio. Maybe Shindaiwa C4 is very different than the two you were using. Maybe 32:1 give very different result. But the plug look so nice after using the echo the first time. I cannot see the piston through the exhaust port because it is a 4 cycle. I didn't have a procedure down, that's why you see I could have done better. But this time, The muffler, exhaust port and the heat shield were all clean using either gas or alcohol. When I pull them out and inspect them again, it will be more conclusive. Stay tune!!!