Additional info. I have been following an organic fertilizing/weed treatment plan for the past 4 years. I aerate and overseed every September and have put pre-emergents down in Feb and March every year. I cut the fescue to the longest setting, 4".

I feel like I have given fescue a fair chance, now it is time to move on. Friends bermuda looks great, in warm season. Thanks.

Fescue doesn't "Die" in the summer if you have adequate water....

Really sounds like you are having Brown Patch problems.... Might be worth a crack at diagnosing your lawn disease problems and going after them that way....

If you really want Bermuda -- it is hard to beat Tifway 419 sod.... Know that it is *Very* high input, though... and does not like shade... If you have a bunch of trees -- Bermuda won't look pretty unless you drop some coin on one of the new Shade Tolerant varieties like Celebration or TifGrand

Either way, you should have a soil test done and then get start working on getting your soil deficiencies corrected...

Thanks

John

Bermuda and Zoysia are your best options

Tiredofweeds,

If you're going to go to a warm weather grass, then Zoysia will be best for a residential setting. Meyer, Zenith, and Compadre Zoysia(formally known as Companion) will perform best as a home lawn. The fine bladed Zoysia grasses like Emerald, Zeon, etc, have a tendency to built up thatch VERY quickly when over fertilized and or miss/over managed. For most homeowners, unless properly maintained, they will turn into a headache very quickly.

Don not use bermudagrass as a home lawn, it will take over your flower beds in no time, plus your neighbors will hate you because it will invade their Fescue lawns. BTW, Zoysia will do that, too, but a MUCH slower rate.

Bermuda does great at the Golf course or athetic fields, but NOT as a home lawn. Trust me, you will be disappointed and very unhappy if your goal is to have a dense and dark green lawn - specially when is brown during the Fall, Winter, and mid Spring.

Furthermore, most of the turfgrasses grown in the Charlotte area are cool season grasses, usually a mixture of Fescue and Kentucky Bluegrass - so that's what your neighbors most likely have. Talk to them first and see how they feel out it, maybe some inground plastic borders/edgers should be installed prior to installation of warm season sod. Maybe they don't care because they have a crappy lawn, but speak to them first.

BTW, Fescue grows very well in Charlotte with the proper maintenance, the problem is that most people don't know how to take care of it or don't give it any care during the summer months hence the results you and other are describing.

I'm up in Raleigh, Fescue/Bluegrass is what most homeowners have/use as a lawn, and you drive thru some of the neighborhoods, you will find dense and dark green Fescue lawns right now. But those are usually under irrigation and some under a Fungicide program (3 applications during the summer months)

Thank you for all your responses.

My front yard faces south east with no trees so a warm season grass would be ideal. back yard (for the most part) gets full sun for most of the summer days just not morning due to the house. Most of my neighborhood is brown right now due to a lack of rain. Weeds are a problem everywhere, even those with lawn care programs and irrigation. I have spent 4 growing seasons trying to help the soil but have had no luck. I am going to kill the current turf and start over. My plan is to power rake up dead grass, get a soil test and adjust accordingly, but this is the tricky part. Should I till in some organic material? I would be worried to wake up weeds that arent already present. If I were to go with a zoysia or bermuda, sod, sprigs or plugs?

Thanks again for all your advice.

Sod this time of year (you are almost one month too late) but no later than July 4th. There's only one month left for the summer, not enough time for the sod to put roots deep into the ground before cold weather returns.

Wait until next year and do it right. In the interim, get a bag of Perennial Ryegrass and put the seed down at the end of this month or begining of next. In about 30 days or so you will have dark green sod that will last until about June, then you can get the sod.

If you are going to plug, another option is Buffalograss. It is also a warm weather grass that's very drought, heat, and cold tolerant, but VERY easy to maintain. The recommended cultivar us Prestige. Google it, you might like it...

Auteck - what is the advantage of using a perennial ryegrass over an annual ryegrass? Will it compete with the sod? Thanks for your input.

You can lay sod anytime of year as long as the ground is not frozen, snow covered, or muddy. Depending on the varieties Bermuda is more cold tolerant and will stay green longer than Zoysia varieties and suffer less freeze damage in the winter.

Something to consider before you choose a grass....

What is your interest in maintaining and input requirements?

Frequently, Bermuda takes a whole lot of work to keep it looking really good... It likes a *LOT* of fertilizing and a lot of mowing.... At first, it seems like a fun adventure... then you decide that maybe you would rather not mow 2x or 3x per week.....

Zoysia and Centipede take a whole lot less input and quite a bit less mowing to keep them looking good.... That can be a real benefit if you don't want to spend all your Money and Time out in the yard....

Just to give you an idea.... The builder put down Bermuda in front of my house.... I kinda wish he would have picked either of the other two.... It just feels like I am always out there Mowing it... especially when the weather is hot...

Thanks

John

Yes, Perennial Ryegrass has the look and feel of Elite Kentucky Bluegrasses (dark green, fine bladed, and dense) and Annual Ryegrass has the look and feel of Pasture Grass (light green, thin density, and coarse bladed) Go with PRG, you will not be disappointed.

Don't listen to Texas_Weed, he is in Texas giving advise to NC residents...

Established (deep rooted )Zoysia grasses suffer winter damage and fungal diseases in Central NC, sod laid in Sept. Oct. or even Nov. will be even more susceptible to all the above.

Autek I see you are out on work release program again and sneaking in the Greenskeeper office pretending to be a know it all again on the web. Better not get caught, they will add a few years to your sentence if he catches you impersonating a Jack A$$.

You can plant Bermuda anytime of year. It doesn't matter where it is. There are times of year that are better than others, but as long as the ground is not frozen, muddy, or snow covered you can lay it down. If it is as hot as it is here, and I hear it is, I would advise to wait until September after it cools down and rains return. That is what we are advising folks in TX to do except wait until October until it cools off enough and rains return.

I have killed the current lawn and I am wondering if you till up the lawn what is the best organic material you can add to mend the soil? I have heard bad things about manure. Let me know what you think.

I wouldn't till. If you till, you'll bring lots of weed seeds to the surface and you'll also make it difficult to get the ground completely level afterward.

If you top dress with organic matter, the organic matter will work into the soil over time.

I live in Eastern NC, so quite different from the Charlotte area, but Zoysia works great here. I have been very pleased with all aspects. As others mentioned, Bermuda looks great when properly maintained, but requires a great deal of work!

New construction and in some places cannot get shovel beyond an inch or so. Soil is not very good. Believe that is part of my problem, roots cannot get deep enough to survive. This is why I thought tilling might be a good idea.

In central NC, I would stick with Tall Turf Type Fescue. Hands down the most economic, easiest grass to have in the triangle. I have bermuda at one home, and fescue at the other. Due to hot summers, I normally have to re-seed fescue in the Fall, but not always. The bermuda lawn works the crap out of me during the hot summer, and only looks good from mid-June to about November due to the dormant period. The fescue lawn looks like a post card yard all year except for July and August. Simple decision in my opinion. Easier and cheaper to power rake and re-seed in the Fall than to switch to a warm season grass, but hey its your effort and money not mine.

Before you plant, consider what else you want in the space. If you have lots of flower beds or a veggie garden, bermuda presents a whole new set of problems. It is quite invasive. IF you have a lot of areas that it might "invade", you will end up spending a ton of time fighting it back. It might be more work to keep bermuda from growing too much than it is to overseed the fescue each year.

We lived in Charlotte for two years so I know something of your plight. IMO, a good grade of bermuda sod is your best way to go. Further, IMO, zoysia is great to look at but it does not tolerate very much traffic. At the very first hint of frost it turns brown and stays that way until after the last frost. It is best total sodded because of its slow growth, weeds will be a major problem.

In North Carolina, Texas, and other southern states, many people plant rye grass to keep a green lawn during the winter. There are two types, annual and preannual. They are both cold weather grasses that will die out with hot weather. Annual rye grows fast and you will be mowing grass all winter. Perennial rye is a finer rye, grows more slowly and requires less mowing.

Many folks poopo bermuda because it is invasive. It does require frequent edging to keep it in check as does my St. Augustine here in north Texas.

If turf grass is your goal, there is no free lunch. It requires lots of water, fertilizer and frequent mowing. Also, unless you can afford total sod as I said before, weeds will be a problem with plugs or sprigs.

@texasredhead thanks.

Here is my plan:
Kill all grass - Done
Get soil test - waiting on results
Power rake all dead grass - next step
Mend soil - not sure what to use or if I will just top dress or till.
Plant perennial rye and then decide my best option in the spring go from there.

Anything you can add will be appreciated.

Ok... DON'T TILL! You will sprout every flavor of weed and barnyard grass known to man.... Your "Yard" will be a 4 foot tall HAY FIELD full of crabgrass, Johnson grass, Barnyard grass, weeds, seedling trees, and every other type of weed seed that has landed in your yard in the last 5,000 years.....

And.. It will be a lumpy mess....

Ok... So... You killed it... I would have advised waiting till late May/early June to do that.. but it's done...

Sod it! May as well do it right now to take advantage of the remaining summer/fall before frost hits and it goes dormant....

Just for 1 data point... My builder set out TIF 419 sod in NOVEMBER last year... It never even greened up till Spring this year.... But.. Green up it did and it grew out just fine.... and this was 1 cold winter.

On Manure....

Summertime cow manure isn't a good thing unless you want a yard full of old fashioned Common Bermuda and Crabgrass and weeds....

Down here in the south in the Summertime -- they feed cows Bermuda hay and Red Crabgrass hay because of problems with Fescue Toxicosis.... so you get tons of Bermuda and Crabgrass seed in that hay.... Unfortunately, it's not a new and improved "Yard" Bermuda.. but the old fashioned "Common" unimproved cow pasture Bermuda.... Pretty stalky and doesn't really fill in to make a dense, lush turf.... It's good if you want to run some cows, though...

Thanks

John

I planted Meyer zoysia in an established, weedy lawn in SE Charlotte. Except that spreading was extreamly slow, it turned out to be great. With plugs planted a foot apart, it took almost 3 years for it to cover major areas. I hardly have watered it except for when its been too hot and no rain for days. Never did fertilize it well either. Need to see how it fairs this spring as there has been long streaches of snow and showers which kept the lawn wet for weeks. I hope no fungus or other diseases develop.