clay soil want to plant grass

13 years ago

I have rock hard clay soil, and i would like to plant grass. Unfortunately I have limited resources. My "soil" now is too hard to till, and I rented a large 11hp tiller. There is almost 2000 sq. ft. and I started in with a pickax but realized the task was too large. Is it possible too dump a few layers of county compost on top and let it sit for a few months, maybe with plastic on top? will that loosen the clay at all? what should i do? please help

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Comments (14)

john_in_sc
13 years ago
The answer to the mulch/compost question is a giant YES... except no plastic. You need moisture/rain to help soften it up.

More than likely, I have the exact same red clay soil as you.... Digging in that stuff when it's dry is a fool's errand...

Areas of my lawn that were covered 3" deep in "Municipal Mulch" last fall are is soft, fertile, and easy to dig.... Grass roots effortlessly...

In areas where the builder scraped it bare and threw down their straw and seed... It is hard as a rock and nothing grows right...

If I can make 1 recommendation... Don't get the dump mulch -- It is super-duper coarse ground single cut mulch.... Lots of really big chunks in it...

Splurge for the Triple cut mulch -- It is *Very* finely ground... Looks kinda like coarse compost.. It rots down pretty fast and is pretty fertile in a hurry..

Thanks

John
ljbrandt
13 years ago
I have the same problem as you addressed in an earlier post...

Just some clarifying before I go shopping today, but what should I be looking for when you refer to "Municipal Mulch" & "triple cut mulch"...is this just cut leaves and wood chips from the city - or is it more akin to compost?

Basically, what do I need to buy @ home depot, LOL.
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1st... DON'T TILL! Tilling = sprouting all 50,000 years of weed seeds that are hidden in that soil.... Trust me on this... You have never seen crabgrass and weeds like you will if you till it up.... Your lawn will be 4' tall with every flavor of hay and barnyard grass and weed known in the whole state of Georgia.... Timing wise on the mulch treatment... Not so good for this season.... but great for Next season... Planting season for Fescue is around Sept 15th... so there really isn't enough time between now and then for a mulch treatment... You will have great results if you are willing to cover it with mulch 3" deep now and plant NEXT fall -- Sept 2011.... (Spring plantings are a bad idea...) 2nd... Don't assume you have CLAY because your lawn is hard and red... I have the same hard packed "Georgia Red Clay" that slimes up your shoes and gets your car stuck.... The lady at the USDA office checked it out and told me it was really "Sandy Loam".... Sure enough, it's only like 5% clay.... Her quote was "A little clay goes a long way." What to do now.... 1. Get a soil analysis done by the UGA extension office.. They will tell you what your soil is missing... Start working on getting your mineral deficiencies corrected... Likely you are low on Calcium, Magnesium, Phosphate, Iron, and minor elements... 2. Make up a plan for what you want to do... If you really want Fescue this fall -- you can Lime and correct mineral deficiencies now, then put down 1" of topsoil and plant out your seed Early September... I would also put down a bag of Milorganite 1x per week or two between now and then..... It will start to get organics into the soil.. which will help quite a bit. Thanks John
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I reside in the North Carolina Triassic Basin having veins of red, white, blue, gray and nearly black clay. The Triassic Basin contains mudstones and claystones that are the mainstay of the North Carolina brick industry. The North Carolina State University Horticulture Notes clearly state that for our area there are three soil amendments that should always be avoided; peat moss (water retention), gypsum (good for alkaline clay soils, not acid clay soil) and sand (any mixture less than 70% sand in 30% clay actually packs more densely that straight clay, you have brick). For the lawn I would consistently use compost and organics. For planting holes I have tried and failed with amending deep holes with anything in my clay. I end up with a deep clay pot in the ground with nowhere for the water to go. The plant roots then rot from sitting in water. I have now had success digging wide shallow saucer shape holes and then mounding that up using 50% bark fines along with the usual topsoil/compost, etc.
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You can start by stopping the tilling. Grasses that do well in the south will grow on top of your soil without the addition of any more topsoil, compost, leaves, or whatever you read in the newspaper. If you read Neil Sperry in the paper, just do the opposite of what he says. I don't know where that guy lives, but it's not on my planet. What kind of grass seed did you plant? When did you plant it? When you tested the soil composition, did you do a jar test where you shake up some soil in a jar of water and measure the sediment at different times after the shaking? I don't doubt that you have very hard soil, but I am skeptical that you have much clay at all. We live on limestone deposits over 1,000 feet deep; however, every now and then there is a pocket of clay, so the chances are you have limestone that is acting like clay due to the amount of magnesium in it. In any case softening the soil is much easier done than by rototilling. Rototillers are for veggie gardens, not for lawns - and I would argue that they are more damaging than helpful for veggie gardens, too. But for a lawn, they really, REALLY cost you in the long run. There are only two kinds of grass that grow easily in Austin. Those are St Augustine (no seed for St Augustine) and bermuda (tons of seed available). If you tried planting a northern grass like fescue or Kentucky bluegrass, and you did it in the past few weeks, it should have sprouted and looked good. If you tried to plant bermuda in the past few weeks, it should look sparse and awful. What was your watering regimen for the new seed? It should have been about 5 minutes, 3x per day, for the first 3 weeks. The idea at first is to keep the surface of the soil moist all the time. Then you should have had about 80% germination unless you planted bermuda. If you planted bermuda recently I would expect maybe 10 to 20% germination. Bermuda needs to be seeded in June and July here in Central Texas. Cooler temps prevent it from germinating. Answer the questions and maybe we can recover from this.
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valtorrez
13 years ago
I have clay soil also and what I started to do this year after seeing dramatic difference in my garden beds is go to garden center and buy several bags of compost and put some on yard to help make soil better. When I moved into home 2 years ago, I had overgrown flower bed that were hard as hell to dig in. After i killed weeds, I dumped 3inches of mulch/compost on them and then a month later I was able to dig easily into beds to plant flowers.
john_in_sc
13 years ago
"Municipal mulch" is my nice name for the free/cheap mulch you go pick up from the dump or from your local municipality... Many towns offer it free... The stuff around here is $10.00 per 2-cubic yard scoop... (1 scoop overflows a 1-ton king bed pickup truck....)

The only thing I don't like about it is that it is super duper coarse cut... so you get lots of branches and chunks of stump mixed in with the chips...

Instead of buying store mulch (Which is treated so it doesn't rot) -- check the phone book for a local mulch grinding company... They have many different grades based on how coarse it is ground... Single ground is the coarsest... Triple ground is quite fine and looks almost like compost...

Cost is usually *Very* good vs store mulch

Thanks

John
ljbrandt
13 years ago
Sorry to keep pestering, but would store bought compost be as good...reason being, I only have about 15 sq/ft to cover. I appreciate your help!
john_in_sc
13 years ago
yes.... For 15 sq-ft... bagged store compost will be fine.
No sense buying a truck load when you only need that much...

Thanks

John
ljbrandt
13 years ago
Last but not least :-)...should I go with the mushroom compost or the manure compost - or are they essentially the same? For all the time I've spent doing this, I'll post some before/after pics...maybe even do a youtube video!
rdaystrom
13 years ago
Forget the mushroom compost. Use garden soil, potting soil, or similar products. Even just bags of cow manure.
marku
Original Author
13 years ago
thanx for the advise on my clay backyard, unfortunately my budget is pretty close to zero after i rented equipment to grade my yard and trench some drains. i
I live in Atlanta, how much mulch do you think i need for 2000 sq.ft.?
john_in_sc
13 years ago
If you went crazy for the full 3" depth - about 18 yards... which is a good size dump truck full...

An alternative (If you have a pick up truck) is to just bring in a couple loads of fine ground mulch or compost and spread it on top of the soil as budget/time allows... just sling it evenly across the whole thing... The absolute minimum you really need enough to cover it with 1/4" -- but that's probably only 2 yards worth... It will go a long way towards getting it softened up and bringing life back...

While you are at it -- get a soil analysis done by the UGA extension office... You will probably find that the reason nothing grows well is that your soil is Mineral Deficient -- not that it is solid clay....

The next thing you can do at home is that is a soil structure test (The test with your dirt in a mayonnaise jar full of water...)

You will find that a *Little* clay goes a really long way towards making what everybody calls "Georgia Red Clay" soils... and that for the most part, the USDA actually considers our soils to be "Loam" and "Sandy loam" and "Sandy clay loam" -- which are mostly a mixture of Sand + Silt + a little clay... NOT mostly clay with a little sand and silt as you would guess by looking at how it packs up your shoes...

The good news about this is that our soils can be very fertile if we can get the Organic Material and minerals back into them... The bad news is that they are Ancient and Heavily Eroded (Leached out)... and so they won't grow anything right if until we do...

Thanks

John
marku
Original Author
13 years ago
thanks john
marku
Original Author
13 years ago
would free wood chips work for amending my hard clay soil? and how long should I let them sit, or actually when should I plow them in and when should i plant fescue, my yard has maybe 5 of sun. Is this the best shade tolerant grass? Thank you
wrager
13 years ago
Mark-
http://solidwaste.cobbcountyga.gov/compost.htm

They used to offer certified compost for low/no cost. They did have a fire so I'm not sure if they re-opened. Since you are in the greater ATL area, this could be ideal.
john_in_sc
13 years ago
Fresh wood chips (like from a Tree service company truck) are fine if you are OK with leaving it fallow for a year while it does it's thing (Like as a mulched bed)... it will work out great.... Be sure to pile it on as thick as you can... because it rots down a whole bunch... You put down 3" and it's 1/2" deep a year from now...

Finely ground and rotted down compost or mulch is a different story -- it is ready to go right now... so you could lay it down and then plant seed this fall.

If you really just want a "Store" product -- buy some of that "Garden Soil" bagged soil product or some bagged composted Cow manure... Put the seed down, then put 1/4" of that stuff on top of it... Roll it good or just walk all over it with smooth bottom shoes (Flip flops)... Then water it good and watch the green come up out of the earth...

You really should do a search on this forum with the word "Till" to see what sort of responses you get.... There are several very good reasons why it's not recommended...

A big reason is that it leaves your yard a lumpy mess for the next few years as it settles...

Thanks

John

clay soil want to plant grass

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