I think Honda is trading on their past reputation and resting on their laurels quite a bit. Not sure about their lawnmower engines but Honda tiller engines have been less than stellar. My neighbor's pressure washer that he lets me borrow the Honda engine on that is junk. They are cheaping down the engines. Maybe it is still better than a Tecumsah engine but both of them will break down someday and I bet the Tecumsah will be a lot easier to repair. Some honda engines have plastic gears inside the engine

Buddy....

You're asking the million dollar question. I just posted (see below) the following response below on another thread. I'm having the same issues, just the other way around. I will say the Personal Pace is fantastic. I have a decent amount of Lawn Mowing experience and I like the fact that I drive the lawn mower and not the other way around. I will say different strokes for different folks...

I will say if I could get the Honda Blade System and Motor with the Personal Pace IÂd been in lawn mowing heavenÂ.

Here's my question. I'm interested in people's opinion....

Nevada,

Why do you think the Super Recycler is superior to the regular recycler? I'm not saying I don't disagree I'm just interested in your opinion and details.

The reason I ask is I got a smoking deal on a recycler last year. I LOVE the personal pace, LOVE IT! If you have a yard with a lot of turns and twists it's great. For the most part I like the entire lawn mower with the exception of one thing. The mulching isn't the best. It's good, just not the best...

I have a thick zoysia yard that needs the best. I'm trying to decide if the Super Recycler Mulching System is "that" much better than the recyclerÂs atomic blade. I honestly believe the engine has plenty of juice; I think it's the blade. The engine never comes close to bogging down.

Thoughts....?

PS. I'm going to borrow the neighbors Honda this weekend for a True Honda Twin Blade versus Toro Atomic Blade Test.... I bet more than one person is interested in those results...

Maybe the only only gas engines that are still as good as they used to be and always were, are Kubota and Robin Subaru. Kohler went into a big slump which they are slowly coming out of. Honda are still sliding in my opinion.

I'm probably more confused than ever. I picked up a Consumer Reports from last month and saw that the Honda's took the top spots, but they were also the more expensive HRX models that I cannot afford.

This 3-speed model was about neck and neck with the Toro 20073 (I believe that was the model number). There was no rating of the Toro 20074.

Consumer Reports is not around to back you up when your mower breaks down after the warranty runs out, and they also do not research the cost of repair parts which for Honda are known to be very high.

Properly maintained, you'll have no worryies with your engine.

Since HD has a 30 day return policy and is pretty good about exchanges, I decided to give the Honda a try. Here were my initial observations:

Pros:
- The cut was great with the mulched clippings bearly visable.
- Nice weight / feel. I have a hill where a portion of the lawn cannot be done with the self-propelling engaged. When doing this portion, the back and forth mowing was easier to manouver compared to my old Craftsman.
- Faster than my old Craftsman so it took considerably less time.

Cons:
- Extremely dusty. Not sure if its the two blade system. But I kicked up a lot more dust and grass than my old Craftsman. My father-in-law looked outside afterwards and thought he was looking at my old lawnmower. It was the new one covered in grass and dirt.
- Speed control. I don't have much room to gripe because my old Craftsman was so slow. But I found it a bit too fast on corners in one gear(2) and too slow in another(1) (3 apparently is really only for transport). Guess that's a problem with the 3-speed vs. a variable. The higher speed was great for most of the cutting, but when I came to the corners it was too fast. I don't like letting completely go of the clutch when cornering (after all isn't the purpose of a self-propelled to let it do the work?). I did find the clutch to be very responsive so that I could adjust the speed on corners by letting it go slightly. When I re-read the manual, it made it sound like holding the bar slightly may be bad for the clutch (ie., use it all the way on or all the way off). So is using the clutch to vary the speed really that bad?

From the above comments, it probably sounds like I'm more negative on the mower. But overall, I did like the feel of it and it did a good job on the actual cutting. Anyone else experience the dust issues on this mower? And, again, should I be using the clutch to adjust speed on corners?

Wish it were easier to test drive the Toro to get a good comparison.

I just dont get why Honda dosent just put the Commercial Engines on all their mowers or at least make it an option. At Northern Tool just for the engines the commercial version is $250 while the consumer version is $200. Or just produce the commercial version, period!

Like Kawasaki's FJ180. Their only verticle shaft single cylinder under 10hp engine at 6hp, apparently for 21" mowers 6hp will provide all the power needed so why make several engines between 3.5hp and 7hp,not to mention a commercial and consumer version. From a production standpoint its gotta be more cost effective. Its got forced oil with an oil pump and filter, not splash. The same engine has been available on consumer mowers as well as commercial.

Cost cant be an issue because Commercial mowers with the Kaw engine are usually cheaper than the same mower with the Honda on it and aftermarket the Honda Commercial is only $50 more than the consumer version.

Is someone willing to pay the price for a quality mower really going to decide against a Honda powered mower because the price jumped $50 over last years model because the consumer engine was swapped for the commercial engine.

If I had known about the price difference last year I may have bought a good mower with the consumer honda engine on it, and an aftermarket commercial engine, performed the swap myself and sold the unused consumer engine on EBay!

I just finished mowing earlier today with my new Toro model 20074 personal pace recycler mower and have to say that it does a great job! The electric start 6.5hp tecumseh engine has a tremendous amount of torque to cut through thick grass while the personal pace self-propelled rear-wheel drive is the easiest and best system I've used on a lawn mower -- very user friendly -- the faster or slower I walk, the faster or slower it goes. I also had seriously considered a Honda personal pace self-propelled mower but I didn't like how you must push and keep constant pressure on the thumb pads in order to propel the mower -- after a short time of mowing it seemed to me that it would cause fatigue in my hands. I definitely think the Toro 20074 is the way to go!

I went to a Toro 20017 2005...former mower was a Honda HR214. Torr PP system is much better than the 3 speed. Change the oil 2-3 times a year and the Tech engine will last at least 10 years.

eagleman35- Is this the same Toro you posted about in the link below?

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/lmower/msg061538198446.html

Here is a link that might be useful: Link Below

Honda may have good engines, but the plastic decks on their more expensive consumer line would be a deal breaker for me. I would much rather buy an aluminum deck Toro or Lawnboy.

I use to work for Honda as an internal auditor and audited Honda Power Equipments plant in Swepsonville, North Carolina. The plant management told me Honda made the switch from aluminum to plastic to cut costs. I got a Honda Harmony mower for my brother at a company discount. Even though he only uses this mower sparingly as a trim mower and is careful with his equipment, the deck cracked. To top it off Honda delivered this mower without an air filter element and my brother did not catch their mistake until he was doing preventative maintenance, approximately one year after taking delivery.

A neighbor bought a plastic deck Honda Harmony a few years ago and did not like its maneuverability and lack of mulching power and gave it to his mother. He bought a much cheaper Troy Built and likes it much better.

The Lawnboy Insight Platinum, the Toro Super Recycler, or the Snapper HI-VAC would be better choices than the plastic deck Honda mowers and the Toro and Lawnboy are significantly less expensive.