It has a bad lower seal. Take it back. The question is, is it a real Honda engine or a Chinese fake?

I've personally never had that problem with a mower from Wal-Mart before. If you like the one you had already, I'd go ahead and replace the engine in it.

Here is a link that might be useful: Lawn Mower Care

Something is not adding up here. First, the oil stain on the carton your lawn mower came in. Most engines are shipped with no oil in them, and a 20 oz bottle of 30W oil to break them in with. You said you engine was not quite full and you filled it up.

It is possible they sold you a returned mower. I would take it back with the oil stained carton and ask for a new one.

Thats Wally world for Ya!
If you want a good mower, shop around the ditches and alleys for anything 10+ years old when they were built with pride!

Neal

I was wondering about that, the instructions for the engine said to fill it up with oil. I was surprised to see some oil at the end of the dipstick.

The mower shipped with an unopened bottle of oil. Gas tank looked empty (implying it was unused). It looked brand new.

There was an authentic Honda emblem on the side of the box. I guess it's a Honda engine. Or do you mean if it was a Honda engine made in China?

The only thing I'm peeved about is the cheapish nature of the rear bagger. It doesn't compare to the quality of my 20 yr old mower.

It probably is a honda but as earlier mentioned you were sold a returned mower. Are you certain this sale was not marked as a "re-conditioned" or "as is". If not I suspect this returned mower got put in the wrong stack.

Honda does run every engine at the factory but they are drained before shipping. Some residue will remain but not enough to register on the dip stick.

Regarding the bag problem I suspect you are mowing wet grass.

Sounds like you got a bad one, most likely one that had been returned because of a leaking lower oil seal, it happens. Wally world (ChinaMart) is good at returns so just take it back and get another one, just make sure it is in a sealed by the factory box and you should be good to go. Just remember that these small engines have no oil filter and the engine will produce a lot of fine metal during the first 10 hours of use. I change my new engine's oil at 1 hour, 3 hours, and 5 hours of use during break in. Then it's every 15 to 20 hours after that, oil is cheap. Good luck!!

Take it back,those honda's are junky engines;get youself a nice Briggs,or tecumseh built High quality unit........get an American made mower,such as Toro...........

Yeah, I agree with Jammer. Those crappy Honda engines will only last 25 years--30 if you are lucky.

I've never purchased a new push mower in box that had oil already in the engine. I'd say they sold you a return.

The eight year old Honda OHC that I have still runs great, starts right up, and doesnt smoke - and was made in USA.

Not crappy - the only thing that ever broke was a cable, all other things have been adjustments.

Yep, that Honda engine is definitely one fine piece. I notice that more and more brands of mower are using it. Lawnboy is using it on some of their more expensive consumer grade mowers.

The Craftsman mower that I have one of these engines on was purchased back in 2000, and has required only normal maintenance, and not much of that. I have changed the oil once a year, at 60 to 65 hour intervals, and it has never used any oil in a one year OCI. I changed the spark plug for the first time last year.

As for the rest of the mower, that is another story. I have replaced all 4 wheels; the front drive wheels b ecame slick and lost traction, and the rears split apart at about l year intervals. The biggy was when the one speed transmission wore out. That cost $75 to replace. The 4 wheels were a total of about $60.

In previous times, I would have thrown this mower away and bought a new one, but I am now old and retired, with plenty of time on my hands, and I just want to see how long this Honda engine will last. So far, at the end of 7 years, it still runs like new. I gave it its yearly oil change about two weeks ago, and before I warmed it up and drained it, it was still right on the full mark. First engine I ever had that did not require at least a little additional oil to be added in a years time.

Just found this thread. I started a thread here and on another forum about the Yardman with a Honda at Walmart for $208, looked like a great chance to get a Honda engine without spending $500.

The only question I was "sitting" on is: is the engine the Honda GCV160? The unit on the floor at my local Walmart has an engine that clearly states: Honda 160, but I can't find the GCV label anywhere. Is the Yardman Honda a GCV or some other "knock-off"? i.e., a cheaper version Honda. The GCV160 sells at Northern Tool for $199.99, onlyd $8 less then the whole mower at Walmart.

If it has a cover on the front of the engine with 'OHC' (overhead cam) on it, it's a GCV (or maybe the 190cc 6.5 HP version!).

Hello all.

Hi jerry nj.

WalMart is big. But I don't think the big boys at American Honda engines would allow WalMart to ruin the Honda engine engineering reputation by selling a lot of " made out of tin and guaranteed to fail fresh out of the box" Honda GCV 160 engines.

This is just my thought, and I could very well be wrong.

Good day.

subywu,

"Yeah, I agree with Jammer. Those crappy Honda engines will only last 25 years--30 if you are lucky."

And my Tecumseh (on a Murry) has lasted 13 years with 0 maint required (Never even changed the plug in it), and my dad has one that is over 30 years old. Nothing wrong with B&S, Tecumseh, or Honda. I like to buy American when I can and lucky for me you can get quality when you buy American when it comes to lawn mower engines, but if Honda is your thing that is great too.

Jammer,

I too have had great luck with Ameircan, but I find on this forum you will get attacked if you say one thing bad about a Honda. If you have had bad luck with them, you might want not want to post it unless you are looking for some creative posts.

"I like to buy American when I can and lucky for me you can get quality when you buy American when it comes to lawn mower engines, but if Honda is your thing that is great too."

Great, like Japanese Briggs Vanguards, and soon to be Chinese Briggs engines (Briggs just announced a big US plant closure). Honda small engines are made in the USA. So, What's "American" and what's not?

tshrimp, I did not mean to sound like a Honda fanboy but Jammer seems to enjoy interjecting in every Honda related thread and talking trash. I have a Briggs Vtwin in my Deere and although it was leaking oil from a faulty gasket when new, it has been nothing but a pleasure to start and use.

Thanks, the scale has been tipped, I will pick up the Walmart Yardman/Honda.

I too, and increasingly since China has taken over so much of the "world's" manufacturing, like to buy American, but find it almost impossible. I did buy a Chevy Colorado in 2005, selling my 1988 Dodge Ram 50 (a Mitsubishi). My 1993 Sears Garden Tractor says "Made in USA" in several places and its 18 HP B&S Twin has performed well, with over 1000 hours on by now.

As noted, Honda makes a lot of stuff in the US (don't know how they do it, must be some benefit to Japanese management), and I thought I'd like to own a Honda powered tool, at least once, and the Walmart deal is very affordable. I still have two Craftsman Law Mowers, one clearly has a B&S, the other, 15+ years old isn't clear who made the engine, but B&S or T, I'm sure. My other tractor, a Sears DYT4000 has an 18.5 HP B&S single with spin on oil filter (at least pressure lub for the valves, think splash otherwise). I am not abandoning B&S...the Walmart Honda also has a configuration I want/need: it is a smooth looking mulcher (most of its assignment), has side discharge when I need to do a hill side that has tall growth (will not flatter it calling it grass), and rear bag when I want to catch some trimmings.

FYI...B&S made in the following locations:

AL, FL, KY, MO, GA, and ....Wauwatosa, WI

Thanks for posting this, I also saw this Honda/Yardman at WM for $208 and wondered about it. Looks like a good deal but don't expect much from the wheels -- my MTD wheel assemblies (pusher, not s-p) are shot after ~4 yrs; one even broke.

Costco also carries a few MTD/Honda GCV combos: one is push, other is s-p. Pusher is $244 or so, has a stainless steel deck but no mention on box of mulching, bagging, etc.

You'll probably want to exchange it as others have said. Might also want to buy a decent mulching blade for it as I'm sure it doesn't have one stock. Lowe's carries a big-wheel model of this MTD (MTD owns Yardman and Troy-Bilt) Honda combo at $239; the blade on that one is also a plain cutter.

Yeah, all the Honda combos are the GCV engine, that is, the consumer engine. If they were not, they'd cost a few hundred more.

I'm pretty torn b/w these Honda combos (pushers and rwd'eers, and also available at Sears) and a Lawn-Boy 10685 (rwd). I'm hoping I'll find the LB on clearance soon as I can find no fault with it. Not as sure on the Honda:

Someone else here or on epinions had mentioned a faulty valve cover (IIRC) on the Honda engines -- said that you have to be careful not to run into anything b/c the cover is soft metal and will bend, causing the valve to remain open and engine malfunction; also, there were a lot of transmission complaints on both the Sears model (Craftsman = MTD or Husq) -- not sure if complaints were on fwd or rwd models...and on the full Honda mower tranny...I'm a huge Honda fan (I own and recommend their cars) but these issues are giving me pause on their mowers.

"Might also want to buy a decent mulching blade for it as I'm sure it doesn't have one stock."

pacer - MTD says they do provide a 3-in-1 blade stock. Claim is that it is mulch, bag, side disch, as it is called "high lift mulching" blade.

I do have, mentioned above, a 15+ year old Craftsman front wheel drive, 4.5 HP "Easy Start"... a B&S I think. All has held up well, it has the big rear wheels.

Consumer Reports did a report on lawn mowers and tractors in the last issue. Yardman didn't do real well on the trouble report measure, Sears did. Honda, that is the whole Honda, was tops as I recall.

I use the hand mowers just for trimming, so the wheels don't get a lot of miles per year. Suppose the back and forth may put more wear on wheels than going straight ahead, don't knw.

Posted by tshrimp
on Tue, Apr 24, 07 at 11:41

"FYI...B&S made in the following locations:
AL, FL, KY, MO, GA, and ....Wauwatosa, WI"

Briggs Manufacturing Plant Locations:
Vanguard Single Cylinder Engines Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Alliance Nagoya, Japan
Vanguard Twin Cylinder Engines Daihatsu Briggs & Stratton Joint Venture Ryuo-cho, Japan
Vanguard 3 Cylinder Engines Briggs & Stratton Daihatsu LLC Ryuo-cho, Japan

MILWAUKEE (Map, News) - Power tool and engine maker Briggs & Stratton Corp. said Thursday it will close a plant in Rolla, Mo., and send the production to China and the company's other plant in Missouri.
The Wauwatosa-based company said it is also looking at closing other facilities that make lawn and garden equipment and a decision could be made in the next few months.

Just like to keep the facts straight. Seems like the most vocal in this forum love to bash Honda for whatever reason. I am an equal opportunity employer, Tecumseh, B&S, Robin, and Honda are all in my shed, coexisting quite happily I might add. No experience with Chinese knockoffs...........yet.

As to the flimsy cam cover on the GCV, a GSV cast cover works just fine I heard.

I purchased the Walmart Yardman/Honda. The manuals include a Honda manual for the GCV160 and GCV190. So, as already stated, the engine is a GCV Honda. The manual is a general manual and covers a variety of engines including electric start, and a couple of different choke arrangements.

I'll get the mower out of the box tomorrow and give it a "test drive". Oh, I find it interesting that it comes with 10W30 motor oil and recommends either 30W or 10W30 for warm temperature operating conditions. I had been under the impression/advice that air cooled engines run too hot for multi-grade petroleum oil.

dpunisher,

I wan't trying to mislead. I was posting only US based production. Some have posted things to lead us to belive that all Honda's were made in the USA and all B&S were made in Japan. In reality most Briggs and Stratton are still made in the good 'ol USA.

You also posted the following:

"Seems like the most vocal in this forum love to bash Honda for whatever reason".

It seemed to me to be the opposite. If I post anthing negative about a Honda I get slammed. I feel I have to walk on eggshells when I post about Honda to make sure and not tick anyone off.

I did hear about the possible move. Wasn't that the move that was kind of force on them because of all the regulations brought about by the California stuff?
You seem to know a lot about it, and some of us would like to learn. Interesting stuff.

Well, Honda will get an unbiased review from me. The only reason I purchased the Walmart machine is to get a Honda, so you know I'll give it a careful checkout. And if it isn't a lot better, quieter, stronger... I'll complain because the Honda-ites have caused me to expect superior performance. And if I live long enough for it to break down I'll also complain about that.

Posted by tshrimp (My Page) on Tue, Apr 24, 07 at 21:47

I did hear about the possible move. Wasn't that the move that was kind of force on them because of all the regulations brought about by the California stuff?
You seem to know a lot about it, and some of us would like to learn. Interesting stuff.

Its all about the labor cost. B&S figures to remain competetive they have to join everyone else and find dirt cheap labor to make their engines. I understand B&S has to keep stockholders happy (their quarterly was not a happy one) and this is one way to boost the bottom line. Sad, but that is what happens when shoppers base their final decision on the bottom line. Not saying that is right or wrong, but that is just the reality.

As far as emissions go, side valve engines are gone and some small engines may get catalytic converters (I think some small engines have them already). 2 cycle engines have likely seen their twilight as well. Emissions are one area where B&S and Tecumseh lag and consequently it will cost them more in the near term to be compliant. I think there might also be some mandated emission compliance period, like engines now are rated 100-500 hours (just a number off the top of my head). New engines will be required to maintain specific emissions for that period. Might even lead to better build/material technology to meet those requirements.

What comes around goes around. As fast as things change, in a decade the Chinese companies will be looking to developing countries for cheap labor, and Chinese workers will be standing in the unemployment line complaining about cheap foreign labor.

This is a very good example of that old saw: You get what you pay for. That great price was the result of cost cutting in the design of more than one component.

Ok, the Honda GCV1600 started easily... I can't say I notice any difference over my older B&S, but I was surprised because it started on the first pull (well maybe I gave it a couple of short soft pulls to recheck the oil..another point, later). The choke is interesting, it is a manual pull to set, then when one closes the autokill bail the choke start to move to off, thus one needs to be ready to pull the rope as soon as they close the bail. The engine is also rated at "2", on a scale of 10 (10 is bad) cleanliness. So I can feel better about producing less pollution when mowing with it. Something to "feel" good about.

On the oil, the manual is silent on the capacity, but the machine came with the usual short quart, I think it maybe be 1.5 pints. The suggestion is put it all in, and I'm sure many/most do. However, on putting about 3/4th of it in and checking the dip stick, I see it is full. Remains at the full mark after running for a few minutes. Of course, one is cautioned not to overfill, it is a splash lub engine.

It seems like a serious error on my part or theirs, when they ship a special size oil container it should be the size needed to fill the oil tank, this protects the consumer from overfilling while guaranteeing, at least this one time, that the oil tank is full. Admittedly, it is hard to see clean oil on the plastic narrow cone shaped dip stick, but I can see it is wet to the full mark with less than the full container put in the tank.

If the Honda is as good as my past B&S engines it will last until I don't need a mower any more. At my age I figure within the next 5-10 years I'm going to have to move off of the big property and take up a easier life stile in a Condo of other everything is done for you environment.

Yeah, I don't know why they ship 20 oz. of oil for a 16 oz. crankcase, or whatever the difference is, but I had the same experience. I used the original oil as a breakin oil and changed to Mobil 1 after the second mowing.

yes, and don't mention/warn in the user manual that the crankcase hold 16 oz, and say: please do not use the full bottle supplied and check oil level often.

Maybe they expect the mower to burn a oz or two in the first hour or two of the break-in and as they recommend the first oil change at 5 hours, one could need another oz or two of the same brand/type oil. Still, I bet a lot of people try to pour the whole bottle in.

Hi,

I have a two year old Honda HRC 216 HXA. This year it will
be its third season. This mower I think is not available
at Home Depot, Target, Lowes etc, but only availabe via
Honda dealers. It is a really great mower, Honda GX engine with 1/2 gallon petrol tank. Steel deck and is a Hydrostatic
drive. I always use Stabil fuel stablizer and so far it has
always started first time. The mower is typically purchased by professionals and it is a commercial mower. When I bought it I was the only "fool" to buy one from the dealer in like that season almost.

The fool bit is the price, this pupply runs $US 1,200 new. However I think it is worth it in that I use it about 2-3 hours each weekend, and no hassles certian helps me to keep my sanity. The other slight disadvantage is this unit is heavy at about 125 lbs.

The flip side is it has been super reliable, and everything works. Wheels have sealed metal bearings, 1/2 gallon petrol tank means long run times without filling. Drive is via a steel shaft (no chains or belts). This thing just feels like quality.

The only thing that I have used that comes close is an old Hayter my father has, and still uses back in England. Both are metal all over and rock solid.

If you have a large hilly lawn, and need something solid I recommend this one. Downside is the price ....

Warmest regards, Mike.

Sounds like you've got a real quality mower. As I have a large mowing job to do I also have a yard and a garden tractor, and they put me back more than $1,200, so I too have many $s invested in mowing, but only $208 in the new Walmart Yard machine (or is it Yardman?) purchase.

Another reason I come back to post is new information on the oil capacity. As a comparison I mowed a small area with the new Honda powered mower (21") and then with my big wheel 6.5 HP (22") Craftsman to get a comparison. I can't say the Honda was quieter, it may be but I couldn't judge it by ear. The big Craftsman is harder to handle, it weights a lot more and I don't think the big rear wheels really help, they may make it harder to handle. The new mower is mostly for my wife, who is much smaller than I.

To to oil point, on the Craftsman 6.5 hp B&S when I pulled the dipstick I noticed it had printed on it the crankcase capacity of 20 oz, the size oil container that came with my new mower. This leads me to think many small engines do have a 20 oz capacity and that's why that size bottle is available. But checking again, I find the 5.5 hp (160 cc) Honda measures full with about 16 oz of oil.

This is a response to the comments on the 20oz oil containers.

Many of the small engines have a capacity for 20 ounces of oil. When the engine oil is changed, approximately 2 - 3 ounces can not be drained. Upon servicing, the engine will not need the full 20 ounces that comes in the small containers. The mower purchased from Walmart was new in the box however, the engine manufacturer probably serviced the engine and started it to verify there were no problems. After shut down, the engine oil was drained (leaving 2-3 ounces in the crankcase). The new engine was then boxed and shipped to the mower manufacturer.

Briggs has changed the B&S branded oil containers from 20 ounces to 18 ounces. I am not sure if the other manufacturers changed their products.