Bob, this is pretty subjective, but......

I think KOR is overrated. I have a G.11 that produced 30 attractive apples this year, and most ended up in a neighbor's applesauce.

Egremont Russet has been a fireblight magnet in my orchard, and it's coming out.

Pomme Gris hasn't fruited for me yet, but the tree is nice.

Misterbaby.

Misterbaby,

I'm surprised to hear that about the KOR- it's been spoken highly of by several posters. What was the problem which made them go in the sauce? Taste/Texture/Bugs?

Thanks,
Bob

KOR and for that matter most non-commercial and heirloom varieties tend to be more regionally affected than the ones planted all over the world commercially. Take recs from different climates with a grain of salt.

Here in Z6 NY even Cox Orange is doable and often a very high quality apple if you are into intense tart flavor. I've found KOR to be more reliable and a similar apple but a tad sweeter as grown here. I can't possibly speak for the apples as grown in TN. Probably too hot and humid there for many French and English varieties.

Other apples you mention I haven't started harvesting yet or I'm not even growing. I think you should consider Ashmeads Kernel. It seems fairly reliable and definitely has the goods as a rich and intensely flavored tart. It seems to be relatively easy to grow and a reliable producer for this kind of apple.

Bob, regarding KOR it was a matter of taste and texture. But know, too, that there isn't a commercial apple orchard within at least 100 miles of my venue because apples are a really hard grow around here. That's why I prefaced with "subjective." Winesap and Jonathan are two varieties you may with to consider. Misterbaby.

I'm planning to get a G65 Ashmeads Kernal to replace the M27 which didn't make it this year (never leafed out above the graft union). I thought about getting a 2nd (larger) based on all the good things I hear, but am leaning toward only getting one of a variety until I absolutely know I like it. I'm planning to add a 3rd Goldrush...

You have me a bit nervous when you say "intense tart". There is plenty of sugar too, right? I've gathered from looking at apple reviews/descriptions of apples I know, that "sweet" often doesn't mean sweet, as I'd view it (especially from UK reviews). The keywords I've been looking for are "sugary" and even better "honeyed". Of course it is all somewhat theoretical until I taste them...

Winesap is OK and I like Jonathan, but I'm avoiding planting apples which I can find at the local farmers market. If I was going to plant one of them, I would probably consider Golden Russet, though I'm hesitant because it is a partial tip bearer which may not fit in my tight spaces (slender spindle at 5-7') as well.

Plenty of sugar but sugary or honeyed would not be a description of most heirloom British varieties. The sugar is pretty much neutralized with the acid although the combination is what makes them taste rich. But if you love Goldrush off the tree in Z6 I'm sure you'll also love AK. I haven't stored AK for long enough to know how much it sweetens up there in the way of Goldrush.

It's good to have more than one GR because it is pretty strongly bienniel in our zone IME.

Irwin Bauer is another in this class that is a very nice growing tree but I've not grown it long enough to evaluate cropping. The fruit is quite good, though.

Suncrisp is a new variety that is in the class of really tasty high brix tarts. It's as good to my taste as Goldrush but somewhat harder to grow. Still, probably much more consistently productive than most heirlooms.

I don't have extensive experience with Goldrush- I picked a bag at a PYO orchard last year and they were the best apples I ever had. I should have just picked 2-3 bags of Goldrush (and none of the others), as I ate them too quickly to see how the flavor changes through storage. It was a nice hot summer last year, so I'm not sure I'd like them as much if they didn't completely ripen (hence why I'm putting them in the warmest places in my yard). My parents went to the orchard later and tried to get some, but they were gone by that time. The owner told them that he decided to replace the Goldrush with Liberty, as he wasn't happy with how the GR had cracked (soon after I picked I guess).

I wasn't saying that I need it to be sugary or honeyed (though I wouldn't mind having one or two that way). That's just what some of the apple descriptions I'm finding online have for apples with some sweetness. For example, Keepers Nursery has a lot of info on a massive number of varieties. But I think it considers almost every apple I've ever had as "Sweet" (though there is much more to the descriptions...).

Thanks- I'll check more into the Erwin Bauer. I had some Suncrisp last fall at the farmer's market and thought it was OK, not great. Maybe it wasn't ripened all the way. I'll give it another try this year.

I don't have that much experience with Suncrisp either, but it knocked my socks off when I sampled a couple in my nursery. I've heard it highly touted elsewhere for its exceptional flavor. I put one in my orchard this year and it was a bare root from my nursery with so much root I was able to leave on quite a bit of fruit.

I'll let you know how good it is this year. It's one of Ed Fackler's top 10, I believe. He's a pretty well known fruit guru who grows apples in Indiana and been doing it bout 40 years.

That orchardist is an idiot IMO for replacing rush with lib. Those who've tasted Rush often have an almost cult-like obsession with it and if I ran a pick-your-own, those kinds of apples would be the magnet that keeps customers coming back.

Bob I have all of your listed apples and like them all. My favorites in order would probably be Kidds, Mother, Egremont, Pomme Gris. Claygate has had lots of skin problems so I am probably not keeping that one. Margil has not been consistent, it was great one year and mediocre the next. Orleans Reinette is similar to other yellow-flesh apples such as Roxbury Russet, Pitmaston Pineapple and Pomme Cloche. Pomme Gris is not all that different from Golden Russet. Pitmaston Pineapple I have not had much production at all from, but the tree has been far too vigorous so it may have more to do with wrong rootstock.

Scott

That is great info Scott! I definitely like Golden Russet, so Pomme Gris is in.

I've heard that Orleans Reinette is pretty "sharp". Do you find it makes good fresh-eating? Did you detect any actual Pineapple flavor in Pitmaston Pineapple? If so, does the OR have a similar flavor?

Have you noticed any disease problems with your top 4 or Orleans (aside from a bit of CAR which seems to at least touch everything other than William's pride)?

Has anyone heard of sunglo apple? An orchardist in Fremont, Mi. has a plantation of these. He said it was an pippin/golden delicious cross. I must say that this is the sweetest, tartest, most flavorful apple I've ever had. Several years back i pulled up to his home/stand after thanksgiving but he had closed up for the year. Glancing at a crate full of them,I approached his home and asked him if there were anymore he was willing to sell. He said no, just "help myself". I filled the whole hatchback on my audi and went home springs a stressin', shocks a squeakin'. You should have seen my wife's face! Apple sauce, fresh eating, and drying without anything added. No color change. I want to contact him to try the grafting procedure next spring.
Noogy

I could not find any reference to a Sunglo apple--online or in Fruit, Berry, and Nut Inventory (4th Edition). Could the name of the apple be SunCrisp? Its parentage is that mentioned by the Fremont orchardist. And people seem to be raving about SunCrisp. Just askin'

Bob, the only problems I have had is low productivity (which I blame on myself mostly) and the skin issues on Claygate Pearmain.

I wouldn't call Orleans Reinette any more sharp than the other yellow apples I mentioned above, but all of the yellows are more sharp than your average apple, in particular if picked early or not aged much. They don't have much aromatics in their flavor but they do have lots of flavor and are different than other apples so I enjoy them for something different. On the other hand I don't know if its worth growing more than one of them. I removed most of my Roxbury Russet and Cloche trees recently for that reason.

Hannah, I think you are right given how the parentage matches.

Scott

Noogy, That was a heck of a gift. I hope you take something in return. I can tell you it is probably not expected, but would be greatly appreiciated.

But here, Roxbury performs as the standout Russet of ones I've grown and really does much more than provide a distinct flavor eaten fresh. I have a client who has lots of Baldwins and N. Spys for gourmet sauce but once I brought him some surplus Rox's during jarring season. Now he asks for more every year. I had to throw a few grafts in one of his trees. Now he's starting to get his own harvests.

Another client considers his RR's inexpendible for his cider (juice) which he freezes in quantity for an annual supply.

They are excellent in storage as well.

Many other russets are highly attractive to CM here and certain rots and don't usually bear as reliably. Golden Russet, for instance, has been a PIA for me. Takes forever to come into productivity on free standing rootstocks as well.

After all, Roxbury Russet was originally from Roxbury CT.

Most of the descriptions reference Roxbury Mass, not CT- not they are that far...

I've also see the RR compared to the Golden Russet. Above Scott compared the RR to the Orleans Reinette and Pomme Gris to the Golden Russet. How similar are the 4 apples and for that matter the Egremont Russet? Anything which strongly differentiates them?

Bob

RR and GR are compared because they are the two most popular russets these days. But, they are very different apples - RR is sour, GR is not; GR is nutty, RR is not; GR is dry-fleshed, RR is not. Pomme Gris is in the GR school, as is Rusty Coat and Egremont Russet. Pitmaston Pineapple is in the RR school, and it also includes many partly or non-russet apples such as Orleans Reinette. RR itself is only partly russeted.

Scott

Hannah- I think you have narrowed things down a bit. I definitely recall the orchardist saying sunglo, maybe it's a sister of suncrisp, hmm. You are probably right. Thanks

Bruce- I'll be making a trip up there this fall to speak with the gentleman...I hope he likes blueberry-lime or nectarine jam.
Living in the Mi. fruit belt, we take advantage of #2 fruit for processing. This year the nectarines were beautiful, but were attacked by something that initiated the exudate late in the season. Gorgeous fruit, some split pits, irregular halves, etc., just not marketable and no insects in the flesh. We sorted them, washed them and canned 8 bushels. It only cost us $100.
Last year it was the stanleys. Wash, poke, pack, and can.
Noogy

Harvestman,

How were the Suncrisp this fall? I tried them 3 times from two different sources in October. Each time, they were crisp and sweet with very little kick. Most had a light red blush on ~1/5 to 1/8th of the apple. I did notice that one with almost no blush did have a bit more acidity. Maybe they need to be picked a bit less ripe? That's a strange thing to say :)

I got a few more last week (last farmer's market of the year) and they were a bit shriveled, but still OK. These were even more mild- they reminded me of the Sonya apples I had last year. My kids loved them, but I prefer something with a stronger flavor.

Bob

Bob, they were not as appealing as in the past as were many apples that just didn't like all the late summer rain. Jonagold,Jonathon and Honeycrisp, for example. The Suncrisps (unlike the others mentioned) still became quite good if left on the tree for a long time and at least they ripen here consistently while a lot of my Goldrush never graduated beyond green and woody in spite of a long growing season. The ones that didn't ripen are from a tree in a more shaded part of my property although it gets a lot of sun.

It will be a few more years before I can really accurately gauge Suncrisp, but I always get overly excited about that first crop when it is surprisingly good. A properly ripened Goldrush is still pretty hard to beat.

Did you find them to have much kick or were they good in terms of crispness and a pleasant flavor (a milder Golden Delicious)? When you fully ripened them, how much of a blush did they get? I should probably get a refractometer to measure brix, so that I have a more concrete frame of reference...

While we're pretty close geographically, maybe we sometimes have different different result- some of the Honeycrisps I had this year were the best I've ever had, to the point I questioned if they were really Honeycrisps (see other thread).

They were not at all like GD, none of the distinctive bouquet of that variety and not so sweet as a real good one. Crisper with more acid and larger with plenty of blush. It was almost Nov by the time they got good at which time they had enough kick to be a genuinely good apple.

Rootstock and soil can create as much variability as relative proximity. I have sites, for instance, where Baldwin is a world class apple most every year- other sites where it's variable and still another where it is always mediocre- the variety likes dry soil. When Honeycrisp ripens too early it tends to suck- needs to make it at least until mid-Sept. IME. When it gets too large it also seems to lose flavor, which figures. Probably from too much water access.

Any guesses how Honeycrisp and Goldrush would fare in N. California?

Honeycrisp would probably suck in San Jose as apples would be ripening under early Aug sun, most likely. Goldrush would be worth trying, IMO, as it does well in the south and lower midwest from what I've read here.