Recovery from harsh Winter: bare spots, hard soil,weeds

10 years ago

Good afternoon,

I recently started a new lawn last year and seeded with sod quality Tall Fescue Blend.

I also applied 16-4-8 in the Fall (per the soil test results). Come October-ish, the lawn looked green and healthy. We had an incredibly harsh Winter this year and while the grass is still there, its brown in spots and in others there isn't much coverage. I am planning to apply a pre-emergent herbicide without fertilizer (am I too late?) and then overseed/apply another 16-4-8 first week of May. I should also note that my soil has NEVER been soft. Add soil conditioner? I know this email was laced with questions but would my next steps be appropriate? Any suggestions, I would be MORE than grateful! I have these sections of creeping Charlie and a few weeds here and there.

Comments (7)

yardtractor1
10 years ago
If you apply a pre-emergent containing prodiamine, dithiopyr, pendimethalin, etc., you should wait at least 120 days before seeding. Siduron is advertised as safe for many cool season grasses, but the pre-emergent abilities, from my experiences, have been, meh.

This post was edited by yardtractor1 on Sat, Apr 12, 14 at 19:52
joneboy
10 years ago
Your tall fescue sod most likely had a fair amount of kentucky bluegrass in so those spots will fill in. Unless your in western maryland I would go ahead and fert. now. Your not to late for pre-emergent but I would go with dithopyr that product will kill any crabgrass that has emerged already. If you must reseed you will need to use tenacity (mesotrione) as your pre-emergent. If by soil conditioner you mean the shampoo thing, I would skip it. Shampoo is a very short term wetting agent, and there are not a lot of native soils that need wetting agent. What's the reason you think you need to correct your " hard soil"?
Related Discussions
Has this past harsh winter made you rethink your tree choices?
Q
Comments (27)
Of My "late drop" Live oaks. 3 had last winter as their 2nd winter in my yard zone 6 SW Pa. One came back from the roots One plain out died. And one is in purgatory. Just joking. It isn't dead but it isn't actively living/growing. It's a zombie tree, I guess. In the middle pic it has green under the bark, but you can barely see it. I believe it will make it, but it will be after a chunk of the season is past before leafout. If anyone doubts the green under the bark I will try to get a picture with a flashlight shining on it. The top pic is the one that came back from the roots. There are red/pink buds on the one with my hands on the twig showing the bark. I just don't know how long until it starts showing some life beyond some tiny buds and green bark. But if they come to life soon, I will be glad I tried and succeeded with them, thus far. Not knowing how late leaf out and growth will affect them long term. Before finding the patch of green underbark, I was ready to think maybe the pink things weren't buds and it was dead. I sat and looked at this tree for a while trying to decide if it was dead or alive. I had a magnifying glass, too. The top couple limbs sticking up had the most red/pink buds, 3 clustered at the end. But not as many lower down. Usually the tips die before the lower portions. Well, as long as the green trunk is green it is alive, and has lived through last winter, it is going to leaf out somewhere, from the top, bottom or middle. All I can do is wait.
...See More
Planting bare root in the fall
Q
Comments (40)
I have thought carefully about which zone USDA zone best compared to my area. Especially during the last 2 very mild winters! But most winters we reach temps of -10F. And every 3-4 years we have some periods were temps are between -15F and -25F. True most of the time the winter temps are between 30F and 15F and some very mild periods of weeks of temps between 35F and 55F. So I do not understand how they came up with the USDA maps to compare the climate here? It says the USDA zones are just guidelines. And I tell you the weeks we have temps below -10 F or the winters where the temps drop below -20F the Roses do not like it. And roses donÂ´t care about avarage temps ...they are not annuals. A rosebush can grow fine 2 years with mild winters and really freeze back during the harsh winters. So I have to choose roses that will survive zone 5a winters and winterprotect the fragile chinas and teas I grow. I tell you even a few days of temps below -10F and the roses are goners...then it does matter that a mild period comes for some weeks before it gets cold again. So average does mot mean much .... Also I have seen the size of floribunda and Hybrid Teas in North Utah (zone5/6) and they had canes the thickness of a wrist and 4-5 feet tall. I have never seen roses grow that tall. Chicago where I have been several times ... has sweltering heat with temps between 85 and even 100F for weeks in Juli and august. My friends in Cold Iowa zone 5a have everything blooming 3-4 weeks before things bloom here (daffodils and lilics E.I) and quite hot temps months before it gets summer here. So it really is hard to compare. All I know is that one has to choose roses that can survive the temps they have in the area they live in. I have to anticipate temps below -20F. So that makes it 5a. Also the amount of sunlight must matter so the lattitude must be taken into consideration I live on 56 degrees N lattitude. While Chicago (zone 5) is on 41 degrees N (same as Rome in southern Europe) I guarantee you that the sun intensity that far south is much bigger than this far north and that it plays a big role in growing roses too... I just saw a zone 5 guyÂ´s Evelyn roses in the Antique rose gallery ... it is nearly impossible to grow that Austin rose so big here. It freezes back to the ground every year here. That should not be the case if I really lived in zone 6b. So other factors must be taken into consideration than the temperature. Perhaps the higher summer temps and the greater sun intensity makes the roses grow bigger since the amount of sunlight also determines how tall a rose grows? But yes I am happy I do not live in Montana ...even though is one of the most beautiful places on this earth (and good troutfishing too!!).
...See More
Rainy Day Musings on Black Spot and Roses
Q
Comments (3)
Fun musings, Rick! Another option to consider in the mix of reasons for less BS for you this summer is the notion that rain actually washes the BS spores off the leaves so there's less chance for the disease to take hold. Even in relatively humid weather, regular spraying and/or rain seems to have a positive impact on BS - the real kicker is humid heavy weather WITHOUT the rain to wash off the spores. Nightmare city, eh? Your observations about the health of your plants providing extra vigor has to be a factor in BS being less of an issue, even if plants don't have an immune system per se. Still, if you have a healthy 4' bush putting out new leaves constantly, you don't really notice the 40 of those leaves that are blackspotted, whereas if you have a 2' one-cane runt, those 40 leaves would leave it bare-nekkid. Quick recovery from a disease is almost as good as not having the disease at all, at least as far as roses go. Cynthia
...See More
Hard pruning, compost, alfalfa, and manure
Q
Comments (34)
I'm glad that I came back to my post to report that the ARS link above is confusing and contradictory. Lori_elf is right, experience rules over what ARS dictates. My Marchesa Bocella was a tiny band this summer. When I dug it up, the roots shrank in my alkaline clay, so my pruning wasn't the problem. The only statement that makes sense from the ARS' link is: "Avoid pruning Old Garden Roses the first two years, let them get established first." Some OGRs' once-bloomers bloom on old wood, and Marchesa Bocella blooms on both old wood and new wood. The above statement of "Avoid pruning ... let them get established" applies to wimpy own-roots as well, I don't prune mini-roses and Hybrid teas, both are wimpy as own-roots in my cold zone 5a. If I prune them too hard, they become appetizers for bunnies. However, I'm ruthless in pruning aggressive octopusy Austins like Evelyn, which throw 3 feet canes as a 2-months old baby. This link for Southern CA mild coastal climates make it much clearer than ARS's link: "Gallica, Damask, Alba, Centifolia, and Moss roses are OGRs that only bloom in spring. Prune these right after they finish blooming; this is usually sometime in early summer. The Damask roses in particular resent hard pruning, so it is best to lightly prune flowering shoots back a few inches. Repeat-blooming OGRs like: Portland, Bourbon, Hybrid Perpetual, Perpetual Damask, and Perpetual Moss roses are pruned at the same time as modern roses (January to February). Treat these roses as you would Hybrid Teas. Strong growing Hybrid Perpetual, roses require hard pruning to promote flowering, so plan to remove at least one half of last year's growth to produce better flowers. Tea and China roses produce flowers on small twiggy growth and should only be lightly pruned ... We have found they respond badly to a winter pruning. We have found that pruning Tea and China roses in the hot part of summer produces quick regrowth and they don't sit around moping for years as they tend to do if you prune them in the cold part of the year... A common complaint directed at the once-flowering Gallica roses is that they often produce very few flowers in our mild coastal regions. Gallica roses in particular require winter chilling to flower; often our mild winters are just not cold enough to produce flowers. " See the link below for Mild Coastal Southern CA tips on OGR's. Here is a link that might be useful: Huntington Botanical Garden on pruning OGRs'
...See More
yardtractor1
10 years ago
I've been told that spraying Tenacity (mesotrione) works well as a pre-emergent (and will stop many more types of weeds than siduron which really only prevents crabgrass) but that the smallest quantity concentrate you can buy is $90 per bottle. Is the granular form mesotrione less expensive and just as good at protection as the spray-on?
gsweater
10 years ago
I don't see any reason at all to believe that KBG is in your grass at all. I do see some Creeping Bentgrass in there though.

Key point, You said you had sod QUALITY seed, NOT sod. Advice will vary greatly knowing this.

I would use Tenacity as a pre-M and it will kill out your Creeping Bent when applied 2 times at 2 week intervals and most importantly, at half rate. May take three passes, but it wipes that stuff out! Pay attention to where the grass looks bluish and dewy in the AM when the good grass is dried out of the dew.

That said, on to the next post. Tenacity does not cost 90 per bottle. Not even close. Closer to half that, and is far cheaper oz. per oz. of specialty and big box chems that don't do 1/10th of what it does.

BTW, if you feel there may be KBG in there, look up Poa Annua. That is far more likely.

This post was edited by gsweater on Sun, Apr 13, 14 at 22:27
mikers1981
10 years ago
Where are you finding your tenacity cheaper?
gsweater
10 years ago
Do a search for Tenacity. Amazon, which typically sells considerably higher than others has it for 66 with free shipping. I got mine at Lesco year before last at 54 dollars.

Others on the forum may tell you where you can find it locally on the cheap.
icross2
Original Author
10 years ago
Thank you all for your replies. Re: correcting hard soil, I'm a newbie at most of this, I just thought the lush feel of a lawn was also due to soil that has not compacted. In some sections, there is even evidence of "cracking" in the soil. Blending all of the advice together, I'm trying to get rid of creeping charlie, fertilize, and reseed but I understand it is unwise to weed-and-feed. Would an approach to reseeding only and applying herbicides later in September work? Is there such thing as new TTTF strangling out weeds?

Recovery from harsh Winter: bare spots, hard soil,weeds

Comments (7)

yardtractor1

joneboy

Related Discussions

yardtractor1

gsweater

mikers1981

gsweater

icross2
Original Author

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

Recovery from harsh Winter: bare spots, hard soil,weeds

Comments (7)

yardtractor1

joneboy

Related Discussions

yardtractor1

gsweater

mikers1981

gsweater

icross2Original Author

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

icross2
Original Author