sakih,
Build raised beds.
You can even use cheap cinderblock.
When you fill it with a good GARDEN SOIL, I buy Black Cow garden soil, most nurseries will either have it, or order it for you., then plant the blueberries in that.
There are sooo many reasons for using raised bed for your situation and the main one being that it is VERY difficult to lower the PH for a bush or plant, and keep it at that level, but easier to grow the plant in pristine soil.
You won't have to weed as much. Use pine straw mulch around the blueberries.
Remember, the bottom is at ground level, this is not a container, it is open for drainage at the bottom.
Before you add your garden soil, layer newspapers all over the bottom of the bed first. Then add the soil.
Then plant your plants.
Then add your pine straw mulch.
Good Luck.

Sulfur won't do it by then. It might take until next fall for what you've added to have full effect. The only way to do it by March is with sulfuric acid. There's no more danger using the later than the former. Too much of either and you could be at excessively low pH. But if you go too low you could take another test a couple weeks after applying the acid and if too low replace part of the soil. You could get that done this fall and see where you are in March.

If I were dropping pH with sulfuric acid I'd do it with about 6-8 inches water depth applied along with the acid. It needs to be leached deep into the soil.

This post was edited by fruitnut on Tue, Sep 16, 14 at 14:28

Do not user cinderblocks to build your raised beds. The cinderblocks increases your PH.

Blueberry plants do not need a perfectly lower Ph to survive. The best way to lower the Ph is to add sulfur to the soil. The ph may not drop right away, but the plants can benefit from the day the sulfur is added. To maintain the Ph, you need to continue adding the sulfur, probably 3-4 times a year.

Raised beds are good for soil and drainage. But it is costly. Most of the blueberry farms would use existing soil to build a long hill and put the plants at the top of the "hill". This is effectively a "raised bed" without the extra costs.

You don't need to get it down to 4.5- blueberries generally do great at 5.5. Mix 50-50 by volume soil with peat and add your sulfur and the blueberries will thrive if planted next spring.

It is when the pH is 7 or above that it becomes extremely difficult.

Thanks everyone for the help!

I think I will start now with harvestman's peat and sulfur recommendations, since that seems most conservative. If the pH is still too high by spring, I might try adding the sulfuric acid. But to be honest, that sounds a little scary.

For blue, it is recommended to mix, 1/3 soil, 1/3 compost and 1/3 peat. Do not remove any existing soil since you want to build the soil level high. The soil level should drop when the compost and peat moss disappear.

For my blues, I do not even measure PH level. I've been growing blues for 8 years.

I too am starting raised beds for blueberries and read that sulfur is a bit too slow working for planting next spring. Is there some fast acting additive that will expire as the sulfur kicks in and still be available to the plants in the spring?

I have an extra bag of holly tone that I can use. How long will that last if I till it in now?

I am told to use either Aluminum sulfate (3/4 lb) and Organic Sulfur (5lbs) and that they cost the same/lb. How do I decide other than the question of being organic?

I generally do not use a roro-tiller but to break up packed soil and to blend in compost, I guess I will for this one. Are these additives better tilled in or spread on top?

Last but not least, I hear that pine needles are good to lower pH. I also hear that pine needles are indifferent in lowering pH. What's up wit dat? Again, on top or tilled in?

Am I being too much of a chemist for this? (:

You have 5 months to next spring, so I Do not understand the worries.

Do not use aluminum sulfur, it is not good for food. Use it on flowers.

You may want to try soil acidifier. I am not sure what chemical it contains.

Pine needles are not chemicals. So do not expect them to lower the Ph much.

Food for thought.
A few years back 90% sulfur was available at all box stores, I know I work at Lowe's. Then all of the suppliers changed to 30% sulfur and every one is still charging the same price. I found a source on line that sells 90% sulfur. So I bought a 50# bag. With shipping it was still less than buying the 30% locally.
I check the PH around my blueberries several times a year and if it is above 5 I ad at most 1/4 cup of 90% sulfur. I added 1/2 cup and in a few weeks it changed the PH to 3.5, way too low, so be careful.
I still have some of the 90% sulfur left and sell it to my co-works at the same price as the 30% that is available locally.
Hans

Fall is a good time to plant blueberry shrubs, if they are available to you. It is OK to amend the soil with peat moss and sulfur when the shrub is planted, they respond well to the slow drop in pH that happens as the sulfur is metabolized by soil bacteria. Sulfuric acid, added to the irrigation water, will lower soil pH immediately. You will have to measure the pH of your amended irrigation water, to be sure that it is around 5. It is possible to add too much acid, and kill the shrubs. I use bromocresol green, a dye indicator solution, to measure pH of soil and water. It works OK, and keeps the cost of testing down. There are other methods of checking soil pH that also work.

=================================

"Before you add your garden soil, layer newspapers all over the bottom of the bed first. "

What is the benefit of placing newspaper under the soil?

================================

"I use bromocresol green, a dye indicator solution, to measure pH of soil and water."

How does this work? Does the dye indicate acidity?

=================================

Do not use aluminum sulfur, it is not good for food. Use it on flowers.

How does Aluminum Sulfate affect food items?

================================

"You may want to try soil acidifier. I am not sure what chemical it contains. "

Is "soil acidifier" a product or a process?

================================

After I get it all set up and mixed, it is better to wait until spring or later to transfer the plants or can I place them now as the soil adjusts to the treatment?

I am thinking it may be good to purchase a pH test kit. Without having to take out a mortgage, which one is good for my 4'x24' raised bed of 4 plants? Several shops around will do the test for free but it is a special trip to get it done.

What is the benefit of placing newspaper under the soil?

It's a good way to get rid of newspapers.

How does this work? Does the dye indicate acidity?
Yes, it changes colors to indicate PH. I have never used it. It probably works well.

How does Aluminum Sulfate affect food items?

Some worry about aluminum toxicity, yet I have never heard of a case, ever.

Is "soil acidifier" a product or a process?

It's a product, which is sulfur.

I disagree with adding one third compost if pH is an issue unless the compost is acidic, which is unlikely. It will make it that much more difficult to achieve the desirable pH if it is neutral, as is most common for compost. The peat will do most of what compost will and you would be safer to use the compost as a top dressing- this will also give more bang for the buck with the compost.

6.5 is average where I am and the peat and soil with sulfur is what I've been using for installations here for 25 years. I don't even wait and prepare the soil and plant on the same day and it has always worked.

Both compost and peat moss are added as organic matters, not to change the soil Ph. The compost is much richer than the peat with the nutrients the plants need.

NJ is blueberry state. There are many wild blueberry bushes at the edge of the deep woods. In a typical setting, a 1-2' deep "peat" or very decomposed material holds the water from the underground aquifer. On top of it, it is several inches of compost type plant materials (compost). This is why most of the roots reside. On top of the compost, it is another layer of leaves (or pine needles) as mulch.

The soil Ph is probably at 6. But the plants are very happy. I'm not sure blueberry plants have to have 4.5 Ph....

Here is the "organic" soil acidifier you can find. It is 30% sulfur.

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{{gwi:124103}}

It clearly says "safer than Aluminum Sulfate". There may be some explaination, or just a marketing thing. But I'm not going to find out the hard way.

Sulfur does not cost more than the aluminum sulfate. So why risking it?? We even tossed out almost all the aluminum cookware....

Redsun, methinks you may be presuming too much. Check the pH of these sites with wild blueberries- both surface and down a foot. NYS, where I live, is also blueberry country- in fact a short walk from my house are stands of natives growing in a pH of about 5.5. I have found them growing in quite acidic soils here whenever I've done a reading.

Who says the peat is not added to change the pH? It is usually around a 4.5 and if you use half peat that is certainly the virtue of it. In the west folks sometimes use a wrapped bale of peat alone to grow blueberries. They just cut it open enough to plant the bush and water and fertilize as necessary.

I agree that blueberries tend to grow in highly organic soils, but acidic ones.

I do not really know the Ph of the soil where the wild blues grow. I assume it is not 4.5, but somewhere between 5 and 6. Blues should do well with any soil below 6.

Naturally all the dead/composted plant materials make the media acidic. But the aged and fully decomposed peat does not contain much nutrients. They are leached out a long time ago.

If you do not add compost, then you may have to add more peat, like 2/3, not 50/50. You just do not want heavy soil. The roots do not like it.

We basically agree with most of the things. I care more about the organic matters, instead of the soil Ph. Blues are still adaptable plants. One spoonful of sulfur is all we need and it is going to last for a couple of months.

Naturally all the dead/composted plant materials make the media acidic.

That's just not true, most compost is basic, Hman is absolutely correct. Avoid it except peat moss with blueberries. Peat is very acidic. Use cottonseed meal which is acidic, or Plant-tone to feed the plant, do not use compost!
I have seen bull manure in peat moss, that probably is neutral and ok to use.
The soil acidifier is 30% sulfur, it's cheaper, and more effective just to use sulfur itself. You can buy pure sulfur online, or at a good independent garden center. By me English Gardens sells 50 pound bags.
And redsun watch out too for aluminum cans! Aluminum foil! Many products are wrapped in aluminum, such as gum, chocolate. Be wary of all canned goods. Best just not leave your house! Oh wait that's made with aluminum too!

Drew51, sure you can live in your aluminum world if you want. I'm not going to use aluminum sulfur in my food. The regular sulfur is even cheaper, lol. Why bother?

The two local blueberry farms I know of mix 1/3 peat moss, 1/3 compost, 1/3 soil, and some sulfur and let it sit for some time before planting the plants. I do not see anything wrong with it. None of them use peat moss alone since it is extremely hard to water it.

This is also what I did and I still do. I've got good results with my blueberry bushes....

Sorry red, I was ribbing you! My apologies. I have never used aluminum sulfate, and never will. They say it's not dangerous. Still I would not use it. maybe for ornamentals only. I use ammonium sulfate at times. Aluminum is the most abundant metal in the earth's crust. I worry about lead, using Phosphorus will tie lead up, make it insoluble.

Nope. I try to go organic if I can. But I do not force it, just common sense.

Blueberry is such a rewarding plant. I'll grow more....

I've done basically what Drew51 did, except I buried the sphagnum moss bags. I tested the pH of my blueberries this summer and it was at exactly 4.5. It's easy and done that fast! They seem to be thriving. I got the information from this site:

Here is a link that might be useful: Blueberry growing intense in Colorado

Great. But how much does it cost to get a large bag of peat moss? I have about 40 blueberry plants....

Yeah you have too many, I would do what the local farmers do, it seems to work for them. All gardening is local. I have 7 plants. Works well for me. I don't care about being organic. I would not be able to grow many fruits otherwise, like peaches. I try to stay as organic as possible, makes sense, but at times it does not. Not many effective methods to battle fungi. Some, and I use them, but at times it makes more sense to use synthetics. Also blueberries respond so well to chemical fertilizer.
Ammonium sulfate is not organic, but magnesium sulfate is, so being organic never made sense to me. Other chemicals are used too. hydrogen peroxide, sulfur, copper etc. Rather silly if you ask me. The organic fungicides have bacteria make the chemicals. Chemicals are chemicals. The most toxic, the most dangerous are organic, like botulism, spider and snake venom. We pale in comparison to mother nature. Ebola is organic.
btw compost is not enough food for blueberries, so fork out the bucks to feed 40 plants, and you thought peat moss was expensive! Of course you could buy a 5 pound bag of ammonium sulfate for like 13 bucks that would feed all of them all season.

Here is a link that might be useful: ammnium sulfate

This post was edited by Drew51 on Thu, Sep 18, 14 at 0:09

There are many posts on this subject. I thought maybe you might like to read them and glean what you can.

Self taught Chemistry lesson for making acidic water

Here is a link that might be useful: Where's Bamboo Rabbit when you need him? ;)

Currently for blueberries I use ammonium sulfate once a month, and supplement with micro life organic for azalea's. I'll probably use Holly-Tone in the future. Also cottonseed meal. Looking for a local source. I like to add azomite too, but you only need to add it once. Results have been excellent. For other plants I like to use alfalfa meal. Getting the stuff at local feed stores is cheap. I hit them also with a good organic once a month too. make sure all trace elements and micro nutrients are present. Like micro life vegetable or Plant-Tone. Or Dr Earth products. Many excellent products exist. I also mulch with compost except blueberries. I mulch with pine bark for blueberries.Compost alone is not nutritious enough and you need to supplement it.

Is SPHAGNUM peat moss the same as regular peat moss? Will it also have a low pH?

Does the sphagnum peat moss in the link below look like the right stuff for blueberries?

Thanks.

Here is a link that might be useful: peat moss

Yes, that's a good product. You want Sphagnum. Sometimes this refers to peat moss that is not cut up, used in bonsai and with orchids. But yeah that is the product.

Excellent, thanks!

Redsun, I'm OK with compost. I have very productive blueberries that have been mulched annually for about 20 years- mostly with wood chips or shredded wood. It has gradually created about a 6" layer of a kind of compost that reads about 6.5.

I thought for a long time that my blueberries were thriving entirely in this nearly neutral medium and posted my belief on this forum and was met with actual hostility at my outrageous claim (the hostility didn't actually come from the claim, but that's another story).

I decided to check the pH further down and discovered it was about 5.5 and the blueberries have plenty of roots functioning well in both zones. The take away for me is that iron is entirely mobile in the plant (unlike Mn)- if it the blueberry plants have at least some access to free iron they may be able to function quite well.

You are correct that blueberries often thrive in a kind of spongy and airy forest compost that is created in areas where they grow- partially from their own rotting leaves. It is a kind of naturally occurring compost which around here tends to run in the low 6's, but I think the soil underneath where the blueberries thrive will be more acidic.

So I think a top dressing of compost could be helpful if you were trying to feed the plants organically and create a better water reservoir. But I would not want to use compost that was above about 6.5 because that's all I've experience with in this context.

harvestman, yes, I agree.

Blueberry has shallow root system and the roots do not like heavy soil at all. Standing water will suffocate the roots and I've lost one or two plants since I planted them too low.

If you can, take away all the soil and dump a large bag of peat moss in the hole. Then you'll probably do not have to worry about Ph for a long time.

But this is not economical and a lot of people try to stay away from using too much peat moss due to environmental concerns too. So a lot of blueberry farms fill in with compost or even composted barks to replace the peat. Then use sulfur to adjust the ph.

Personally I do not buy peat moss. We have a large wooded area. When I need any organic matters, I'll take my bucket into the woods. At the base of the decayed trees, there is a layer of composted tree materials, some like peat and some like saw dust. I use that as my peat/compost blend. The wood decay is exactly the materials the blueberry plant needs. I just wish I could have more of such materials.

On top of the planting, I use a thick layer of very aged and partially composted wood chips, at least 2-3", 4-5" better. I do not test the ph since the color of the plants would tell me the ph. I'll put a scoop of sulfur on each plant, about twice a year.

The best materials to add to a blueberry bed: fully decayed tree leaves, pine needles, pine barks, tree cave shavings. All the materials should be fully decayed. Any not fully decayed materials should go to the top as a mulch and add to the soil.

All the above materials should be somehow acidic. Use sulfur to adjust the ph if necessary....

>>The best materials to add to a blueberry bed: fully decayed tree leaves, pine needles, pine barks, tree cave shavings.What are "tree cave shavings"?

All of the nuance here is making me wonder if I wouldn't be better off planting blueberries in containers where I can more easily control the pH. Containers would also allow me to move the plants to get more sun, if necessary. There is a local nursery that grows Northern highbush varieties, like Jersey, Elizabeth, Patriot, and Bluecrop. Would these do well in containers?

This post was edited by sakih on Thu, Sep 18, 14 at 19:29

I'm sorry the nuance is confusing. I suggest you just stick with the half peat and half soil if the soil there isn't too heavy and drains well.

Growing in pots requires frequent watering (you may need to collect rain water if your tap water is too alkaline). If you stress them even for a short period of drought they tend to runt out and take forever to grow. The correct potting mix for blueberries usually needs to be home made (pre-made mixes usually aren't acidic enough). You need to be more precise with fertilization as well.

Gardening is a bit complicated but if you just dive in you will learn to master the nuance gradually and without too much pain. Or you can buy your blueberries and plant a viburnum.

Yes, they can be grown in containers. I have 4 in containers, and 3 in raised beds. The raised bed is just a giant container. I'm doing this as I'm moving. i will eventually put them in rasied beds. I just bought 4 this year, 1st year. here are three of them. I will put them in bigger pots once dormant. They quickly outgrew the first year pots. From left to ritght. Southmoon, Legacy, and Cara's Choice (A smaller more compact plant).
{{gwi:31769}}

I'm bad at watering my container plants. So I grow mostly cactus and other drought tolerant plants.

RedSun,

You might like to look at this video. I've been using this system for the past two summers and it sure makes life easier.

Here is a link that might be useful: Kiddie Pool Grow Bag System

This post was edited by milehighgirl on Thu, Sep 18, 14 at 22:52

>> Gardening is a bit complicated but if you just dive in you will learn to master the nuance gradually and without too much pain. Or you can buy your blueberries and plant a viburnum.

No way, I'm committed to edible landscaping!

I was wondering, could I add sand to the peat moss and soil to improve drainage? Sand used for children's sand boxes is quite cheap, and sand won't decompose like peat or compost, so it seems like a more economical way to avoid heavy soil than a 75% peat/25% soil mix.

Here is a link that might be useful: Sandbox sand

If drainage is a problem, you can use sand if you create mounds for the plants using a great deal of sand. A little sand can actually make things worse from research I've seen, but if you use something like a third sand by volume, mixed with a third peat and a third soil and create the mounds with this it should work fine.

If you make such a mix without building mounds you may create bath tubs that fill with water and drown roots.

You can also grow them in pots mixing 50/50- sand to peat and put them half way into existing soil- or make a mix with ground pine bark that is aged for the purpose (this is harder to find but more often used in blueberry production). If you set up a drip system or water them consistently, blueberries grow very well this way, if you put them in big enough pots. 5 gallon pots would support mature plants pretty well.

Is your soil clay? Do you know the texture of your soil? This is something that is not at all obvious and people often are confused about the texture of their soil. This is also where your county cooperative extension can provide better advice than you can get on-line- although there are simple tests using dishwater detergent to get a general reading on your soils composition.

Drainage is easier, because you can figure out how long it takes to drain after heavy rains or dig a hole and fill it with water several times. Not sure of the exact procedure but it is an easy search for details.

Some folks already wrote academic thesis on growing blueberries. Several state agriculture extensions also wrote about growing blueberry. Youtube is good too. Follow the directions. Do not try to make it very complicated.

Try to mimic the natural blueberry growing environment if you can. Blueberry is easy to grow.... Do not make it too complicated...

Blueberry is easy to grow

You wouldn't know it by the number of threads here on dead or almost dead plants.

Harvestman,
Thanks for the detailed response. I am so glad I didn't just go ahead with the sand without asking first! I will check with the local extension office about the quality of my soil. It looks "loamy" to me, if that's the right word��"a good bit of humus, not too dry, but not too much clay either��"and their are lots of earthworms in it. I don't know where they came from, but it seems that whenever I put my trowel in, I dig one up.

" I don't know where they came from, but it seems that whenever I put my trowel in, I dig one up."

I hear that the earthworm is not native to the North American continent. I wonder if anyone can verify this....

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I just caught that picture of the bush-in-a-bail of peat moss. Looks far easier than building raised beds. This way, when they are producing fruit, I can move it closer to the house then put it away the rest of the year.....

How much drainage should it have? Large or small holes in the bottom? Some of my planters have holes 1" above the bottom in the sides of the pot. Being an inch or two from the bottom assures a collection of water at the bottom and excess is drained off. Any thoughts on that?

I don't think you can put enough holes in the bale. And earth worms are not native. Some areas still do not have them, and have strict rules to keep them out.
I forget the author's name? But a recent book about how Columbus changed America was released, and it mentions the earth worms. Many species of plants became exinct too due to them. At least that is what I heard.

OK found the book!

The Columbian Exchange, as researchers call it, is the reason there are tomatoes in Italy, oranges in Florida, chocolates in Switzerland, and chili peppers in Thailand. More important, creatures the colonists knew nothing about hitched along for the ride. Earthworms, mosquitoes, and cockroaches; honeybees, dandelions, and African grasses; bacteria, fungi, and viruses; rats of every description��"all of them rushed like eager tourists into lands that had never seen their like before, changing lives and landscapes across the planet.

Here is a link that might be useful: Uncovering the New World Columbus Created

This post was edited by Drew51 on Fri, Sep 19, 14 at 13:15

America as an immigrant's dream apparently applies to earthworms, too, because they've certainly made themselves at home here.

I don't think peat moss bales is the answer in the humid regions. Peat gets soppy and doesn't drain easily in a constricted situation. In the west there's close to no rain during the growing season (lately not much during the rain season either).

What constitutes a "humid region"?
Is Connecticut in that list?