Checked the couple of hands on natives I'd noticed earlier in the season while building fence down along the creek. Still firm and green. As brutally hot and dry as it's been here for the past 2-3 weeks, I'm anticipating that things here will be ripening significantly earlier than usual.

This is about the normal onset time for my back yard (oepn and hotter) but a little early for pawpaws in the heavily forested bottomland (Congaree National Park, where personal-use collection of these and a few other fruits is permitted).

I normally get pawpaws in yard and forest off the ground (though often with a little tree shaking). This one felt soft even while reasonably firmly attached and I pulled it off, anxious to try it. I'll let the other two fall when they are ready and they may taste a little richer and have more aroma (this one oddly had little or none, unless my nose is insensitive today).

I have 4 varieties of paw-paw's sofar Mango,overlese,wilson,sunflower and some wild ones that i am going to use for grafting next spring if i can find some peterson sions or others.Mango has fruited the second year now,both times just a cluster of 3 same as the others.I never tasted any of them because they are gone before i can get to it. Maybe this fall.The mango's are big.
My paw-paw's sure are getting a beating this summer,dry and hot and they are in direct sun for about 5 hours. I just hope that are coming-out this next spring o.k.

"Mango" is a very good pawpaw. "Overleese" is nice too. "Sunflower" was the first pawpaw I had to succumb to the mysterious decline, before I got any fruit I think.

I just had the second pawpaw out of the cluster of four. It had no trace of wateriness and was just fine, though of course not outstanding. I do detect a slight bit of aftertaste but I have the bad habit of cleaning the membranes off the seeds with my teeth so it may be that. I'll check by forgoing the practice with the next one.

I am curious if you like mango better than overleese? My mango is the most productive variety and it has very large fruit but I like the firmer texture of overleese a lot better. Maybe it is just me but overleese also seems to have a slight richer flavor. A cross of these two would be interesting.

Hi gonebabanas,
How old and tall is the seedling you mentioned.
Thanks.
Ben

The "Overleese" is in an inconvenient place to hand pollinate and I haven't gotten around to it for a few years at the right time, so I really forget any details with the fruit. The "Mango" has fatter, larger, possibly smoother, but as you mention probably lighter colored and milder-flavored fruit. "Mango" is great out of hand, "Overleese" would probably be better in ice cream or custard or such.

These particular seedlings were from my earliest and very casual trials, without documentation except that I would mark the pot with the female (fruit) parent. They are probably a bit more that five years old, maybe 7-8 feet tall, but narrow by being crowded and probably stunted by being in a pot. I FINALLY have a place to put them in the ground, but with lousy sandy soil. I will amend the planying holes with vermiculite and clay and mulch heavily and spread some river-bottomland silt onto the mulch as I can obtain it. I've had some decent initial luck with amending a planting hole compared to not doing so. Mulch, especially when the bottom gets highly decomposed, and a moderate amount of shade seem really to help here, but again I base this on a very few plants. I'll know a lot better in a few years after ~25-30 big seedlings are transplanted this late winter to an artificial "patch" with some pine shading.

bananas-

I have 7 seedlings. I also have very sandy soil. I may have to follow your advice and really amend the soil for them. I plan on putting them in the ground next spring.

gonebananas - If your seedlings are 5 years old and 7-8 feet tall, their average growth rate is about 1.5 ft per year. Do they grow slowly at first and then speed up? I have 11 seedlings, and they are growing SLOOOWLY. I hope they pick up their growth rate soon. Thanks. Ben

Today me too ate my first mango paw-paw. mango is the first paw-paw i ever ate.I am growing 4 variaties and some wild ones, but i have never ate one of them.My mango was solid orange inside and has 4 seeds and it taste very rich, not watery but just like a mango. What a surprise. The others are not ripe yet. This sure make a believer out of me. Now i find that there are better tasting ones like peterson and some others. i sure like get a hold on some sion wood this winter. If not i just have to by the little tree's from sources i do not know yet. I got the bug, got to have it period!

"Mango" was the first grafted one I ate too and it made a fan of me.

And yes, my seedlings grew very slowly the first year, but not too badly the second. The KY university people can get 3 foot tall graftable seedlings in one growing season with intensive methods (well fertilized and an extended "day" with appropriate bright lights). My plants, being crowded, probably grew upward faster than if they had had more room to grow outward.

Not to be a stick in the Mud, but just be aware that I believe all of Peterson's cultivars are under patent. They should not be propagated without permission. I believe the only retail site that has permission to propagate and sell is Nolin River out of Kentucky. There is another nursery listed, but they don't seem to sell to the public, which leaves me to question who they do sell to? The frustrating part is that I believe Nolin River is sold out for 2011, I think I am wait listed and should have plants coming this year, but looking at their website one of the ones I have been trying to obtain for over a year will not be available in 2011. Not trying to be scion police here, but just try and respect the years of effort that goes into developing new cultivars, I donÂt think a lot of people think about this, but if we donÂt support the effort that goes into developing new cultivars we will not see the advancements in the fruit we grow.

If somebody bought a peterson tree and want to give away sions it is my understanding that they can do so as long as theydon't get any moneys.I bought 4 tree's sofar and don't feel obligated and worry about who i give sions to.I think it is healthy for people that grow all kinds of variaties to exchange sion among them.I grow all kinds of fruit tree's and my neighbers like the bags of fruit i give them. I would be perfectly satisfy just tohave a few more mango tree's.To go back to growing fruit tree's it is allways my believe to let them grow the first few years and to make sure to pick-off any flowers or fruit,even if you leave just one fruit on. It will stunt there growth. It is better to shape the tree for productivety the first few years. You get better yields and the look much better. I enjoy looking the way my tree's fit in the lanscaping.

Under patent law, you can't even propagate the patented plants for your own use. That's why it is important to save the tag just in case you get sued!!
However, patents have finite life span. After the patent expire, it is free for all.

Respecting someone's hard work, dedication and years of investment is the right thing to do.

patent on a tree that you bought and than later use sions of that tree seems reasonable, because i have bought lots of tree's in the last 25 years or so. Alot of the tree's that have died before i could get a fruit from it.Most of the times i don't ask for a refund or a replacement. I just learned from it.Not to change the subject, i do tradtional stained glass for over 30 years and in my website i have a lot my own designs and these are my better works and i know that anybody can copy my stuff, but i am not going to cry about. Look at some fruittree's like apples,figs and so on. multy names same apple, same figs, there is just no end to this. Look at granny smith apple(patent apple) how many varieties do we have now. 50?
Me personally like to share with whatever i got as long it is not my money, my wive place holy hell with me and i am not going there!

Don't confuse patent vs named variety. Also, as I mentioned in an earlier post, patent rights do expire.

To patent something cost big $$$$.

I rather pay a few meager bucks to buy a patented Peterson pawpaw because this gives me the satisfaction of supporting his lifelong work. These few bucks are a token of my appreciation for bringing these pawpaws to my garden. Without his research (about 30 years) , this would not be possible.

Without the newly patented cultivars, we'll still be eating Sunflower (with a bitter after taste) or Mango (mushy) or god forbid, pawpaw from an unproven seedling. I am very grateful to Peterson for introducing these new superior cultivars.

I haven't found Peterson pawpaws to be any better than natives or other named varieties in taste, number of seeds, or size. I have a Naomi's Delicious, Peterson Rapahannock, and several SE Texas natives. I didn't notice much difference. I also had one of the plants he sent me die by the the fall or I would have had two Peterson varieties.

Here is a link that might be useful: mrtexas

>If somebody bought a peterson tree and want to give away sions it is my >understanding that they can do so as long as theydon't get any moneys.

Incorrect.

The info sent with Peterson paw paws (at least when Peterson was selling himself) is perfectly clear on this: "Do not propagate these varieties without his permission, either by grafting or budding or cuttings or tissue culture, either for your own use, or for use by anyone else. Seed propagation is OK"

IMO, Peterson deserves every dollar he gets from this (but I do wish he made it a little easier to get the trees!)

I am sorry that i offended some. It is not my intension to do that. I bought a russian persimmon from Raintree nursery and had to pay an extra dollar for it. Gues what? Bad choice tree, not worth growing.I wonder if that extra money ever reach the Kremlin, i hope so.I am 72 years old now and like to see my tree's produce sooner. Exsample: warren pear,7 years old no flowers, nothing.Peterson paw-paw you cannot even get one. Last spring i try to get one, message out of stock. i got a local paw-paw breeder here close to where i live," out of stock" see me next year. I don't have time for that, sorry.

Bob,
Warren (and Magness) almost need to be on quince understock, or you'll wait a LONG time for flowers. I've known of folks who pulled out their Warren trees after waiting as long as 15 years for them to bloom/fruit.

Additionally, since both of those cultivars are pollen-sterile, and produce little or no nectar, there's not much to entice bees to visit the flowers. So...you need plenty of potential pollenizers around a Warren tree in order to get good fruit set - or, as many folks have come to realize, it may be better to just have a branch or two(or more) of Warren grafted into a suitable pollenizer variety tree, rather than having a free-standing tree of Warren all by itself.
I have Warren, on seedling P.communis - grafted in '98; has produced a handful of pears for the past 2-3 years, and has maybe 20 fruits this year, and it's surrounded by dozens of other heavily-fruiting pears.

Overleese and NC-1, I hear have comparable fruit quality to Peterson's pawpaws, and are not patented. So, there is no restriction on scion dissemination.

I agree that getting a hold of Peterson's pawpaw takes a lot of planning. I ordered mine 2 years ahead of time from Peterson, and a year ahead from Nolin River Nut Nursery.

No offense taken here PBob,
I was just was not sure you knew about the Petersen Papaws still being under patent, and that asking for scion wood from them probably not result in any offers as I think most here will respect those patents. I think many of us are frustrated in obtaining the Peterson Cultivars. I have eaten a lot of native Pawpaw, but no grafted ones yet, as mine have a few years to go, and I havenÂt had the greatest luck keeping them alive either. I have better luck with your namesake persimmons, I saw your post about scion for them as well and in a couple years I should be able to share scion wood of them with you. I have couple that would be available now, and replied as such in that post, but they are pretty common cultivars, if my plans workout this year I should pretty much double my cultivars from the current 8. I need something to eat while I wait on my PawPaws and my Magness pears that Lucky just burst my bubble on. I was thinking maybe 7 years, but 15 years, maybe I will pull them out now before they get too big.
Emailing Nolin River and ask to be placed on the PawPaw waiting list seems to be the only path for PetersenÂs cutlivars. The other place that is listed for propagating them is Forrest Keeling Nursery, but has anybody been successful purchasing from them? I was not, I know they are wholesale, but who do they sell to? Maybe someone is establishing a commercial orchard and purchases all they have available. Basically Forrest Keeling told me they had them, but would not sell me any.

This is going to be my last issue about peterson tree's.Back in the 70's and 80 when i belong to the Nafex group i have dealings with a lot of great people that are heavy in fruits of all kind.These are the true explorers, they would experiment, and would not believe anybody that made some kind statement of new fruit that taste out of this world. They would find a way to find-out wether you are bullsh...them.T.o warren, Robert Kurle,and a whole slew of them,to me they were the explorers and i look up to them. Personally i like to be like them, but i could not. When Robert Kurle was still alive i sprayed his tree's on his two acres of pride. I met them all. A handful of them are not here any more.They were dear to me!!

Pawpaws way ahead of schedule this year with the early spring and the hot dry summer. The first one I tried this year, a Peterson Shenandoah, had fallen from the tree on its own and was at the peak of ripeness. Since a bad pawpaw experience last year when I had eaten an overripe fruit, I've had some nausea when eating them straight-up, and this tasting was no different. Not bad when mixed with ice-cream though.