I never spray after harvest. If you remove all rot infected fruit promptly the rain should not hurt foliage of stone fruit and I see no reason to spray for next years production.

SI fungicides like Monterey Fungus Fighter are invaluable on very wet years because they are rain fast.

I'm in southeastern NY, and until a week ago the weather was almost perfect for fruit production. Now we seem in the wet cycle as well, but so far the peaches are mostly fine although crack susceptible plums are taking a beating when ripening during rain.

All the Oullins plums on the tree after a 4", day long rain split open. Still tasty, but impossible to store. Surprisingly my Summer Beaut nectarines haven't split at all but quality has dropped since the first ones ripened- maybe because of rain. I can now say that all and all my Sweet TangO peach produced superior fruit to the SB nect.

Thanks for the reply Hman. This is where I get confused....my instincts tell me that spraying after harvest isn't necessary but I have LOTS of problems with various bacterial & fungal diseases. My orchard is bordered by woods that harbor disease. Wouldn't a disease free fruit tree contract a disease after harvest from diseased trees in the woods? My thoughts are that spraying after harvest would help prevent disease. Spraying up to harvest helps prevent fruit from becoming infected but wouldn't post harvest spraying up to the time of leaf drop help prevent the trees themself from becoming infected?

Rain fast surfactants help a lot when spraying in rainy weather but they only help for a while before they wash off. Continual rain for days on end, for almost the whole summer, like we've been having here make more frequent spraying a necessity.

Jim,

For me, it really depends on the pests. Here, we get cherry leaf spot pretty bad, and if you don't spray for that post harvest, trees will defoliate very early, weakening them. I generally spray the cherry trees (for leaf spot) while I'm spraying the peaches, as long as the fungicide is rated for both.

This year I've appled some post harvest sprays to peaches. I always get some OFM shoot damage on early varieties after harvest. That's because it's been my practice to quit spraying a peach tree once the fruit is gone. Early varieties then go all summer long without any sprays. Shoot damage on early varieties was getting too extensive, so this year I've hit them with an occasional spray to reduce damage.

Things like apples and pears don't get any sprays after harvest.

olpea, I was hoping you would give your opinion,,,was waiting for it. LOL

Cherry leaf spot has me crazy, I have 25 different varieties of sweet & sour cherries and really don't want to loose any of them. This year cherry leaf spot has gotten into every cherry in my orchard. All my pear trees (20 varieties) are showing early signs of fire blight. Apples, peaches, plum, apricots & nectarines look disease free so far. Just cherries & pear I'm battling with. Going to continue with my spray program post harvest until leaf drop....better safe than sorry. I'll spray the entire orchard, just as easy to spray everything as selectively spray.

My spray program consists of Captan, (another chemical I don't want to specify here), Orbit, Sevin XLR, Tactic & Fighter-F. This is applied at 14 day intervals to the entire orchard. I'm spraying the pears for fireblight with a mixture of Agri-Strep, Tactic & Fighter-F every 7 days in addition to the above orchard spray. Even with this aggressive spray program I'm still having problems. It's tough having an orchard surrounded by woods.

During the dormant season after leaf drop I spray everything with Kocide 3000, dormant oil & Tactic. I do this 2x, once in the late fall and again early spring right before bud break.

I've never heard of early stage fireblight and I've never heard of spraying continuously to stop it. Is this a normal practice down south?

Sevin doesn't give 14 day protection and requires a tighter schedule for me than Imidan (although with all your rain Sevin would stick better) or newer insecticides I use such as Avaunt. For OFM, Assail would be more the ticket. I figure after heavy rain Sevin might be good for 5 days. I believe Imidan has better kick-back than Sevin as well (kills insects in fruit).

Hman, I'm not sure if early stage fireblight is the correct term, all I know is almost all my pear trees have fireblight that isn't full blown (full blown fireblight is when cankers form, entire branches die and eventually the tree dies), some of my trees have dead shoots with the tell-tale burned shepard's crook, but mainly leaves and some branches have the burned look specific to fireblight. The label recommendation for Agri-Mycin 17 (agricultural streptomycin) to combat fireblight on apple & pear is to apply at 3 to 4 days during blossom then 5 to 7 day intervals after blossom to control fruit and shoot fireblight infestations, discontinue 30 days prior to harvest then again at 5 to 7 day intervals after harvest as a foliar spray. This isn't a down south practice, it's the product label recommendation.

Sevin for my orchard seems to work well, I don't have much of any type of insect problem. Since I don't have an insect problem and have about 20+ gallons of Sevin XLR I see no reason right now to use any other insecticide. I'm not saying that Sevin is the reason I don't have an insect problem, I just don't for whatever reason...and I'm glad of that. I have Malathion, Guthion, Diazinon, Imidan, Avaunt, Assail and a few other insecticides but see no reason to use them right now, I'll wait until I see a problem first but I do appreciate your input, you know more about this stuff than I will ever know, you do this for a living. I'm just an amateur fruit tree grower that makes lots of mistakes but I do enjoy learning.

Jim, you probably know more about fireblight than I do. All I get is a scattering of shoot blight most seasons although I occasionally get a pear really badly hit (usually Bosc) but I've never attempted any treatment besides cutting it out. I appreciate you telling me what the label calls for as I had no idea. All I'd read about with strep was spring treatment.

Funny thing is that last year was worst ever here for FB and we got very little rain and the weather wasn't very humid. there were just lots of clear warm days and a very early spring. FB confuses the hell out of me.

Sevin has been a big problem for me when I use it for J. beetles because it seems to kill beneficials to the point where I get mite outbreaks. It is known to require a tighter spray schedule than the other compounds we discussed as I understand it. This year I used Avaunt where I could (farms) for J. beetles, and although I didn't get as good knockdown, control was adequate and lasted longer than with sevin- or at least seemed to.

Here, when we've had extremely wet years a lot of the trees look like hell but then come back fine the next season. The thing about weather is it's almost never average. Gardening is well suited for people who like to complain (like me).

Thanks Jim,

Didn't mean to drop out of the discussion. It's been pretty busy last couple days.

It sounds like you have many of the same pest pressures I do.

I see fireblight symptoms on pear leaves but typically don't spray for it. Most commerical growers target sprays for fireblight in the Spring. I believe this is because fireblight isn't as apt to travel systemically in the summer from leaf attacks. The bacteria isn't as virulent in the heat. Growers talk of the summer heat "burning out" fireblight.

Like I said I haven't had any problems with leaf infections. I did almost lose a pear a couple years ago, but that infection started in the Spring.

Shoot infections are more serious and as you probably know, growth regulators are used on apples to reduce shoot growth, overly vigorous shoots being the big danger. You might be able to control fireblight in the summer without the sprays by pruning.

I'm just thinking you might loose some efficacy of antibiotics sprays with such a long window of use. I believe Erwinia can develop resistance to antibiotics faster than fungi develop resistance to most fungicides.

I understand why you're using Sevin. If you do start having insect damage however, that's the first thing I would look at. Sevin XLR is specially formulated to last longer than other formulations of carbaryl, but its life is still pretty short on the tree. But as long as it works for you, and you've got plenty of it, I'd keep using it.

One other thing I'd mention is that I get pretty good control without tank mixing two fungicides. Captan by itself has worked well for me for scab and brown rot and I sometimes use Orbit/Bumper by itself with good results for finish sprays. All that said, you may have more humidity being close to the forest than I do. That's got to be a challenge.

This year I've not used Captan as much and using Elevate and Pristine more. However, while they have the advantage of being reduced-risk, I don't think they work as well as plain old Captan.

Olpea, yes it does seem that we have some of the same orchard pest problems. I wasn't aware of what you said about FB. It's entirely possible that my FB problem started in the spring and I never noticed it till just recently....I was traveling overseas from Jan till June and wasn't around to monitor things. It's hard to play catch-up once something takes hold.

One of the reasons I use a lot of Captan is I have a lot of it. I have 10, 50lb bags of Captan 50WP. Figure if I have it I'll use it. I mix it at the rate of 2.5 tbsp per gallon of water, I have enough to last me 1000 years LOL.

In the past I've never mixed different fungicides, I've always alternated. This year a horticulturalist from a university stopped by to look at my orchard and evaluate my spray technique. She recommended not alternating fungicides and said it is better to tank mix 2 or more different ones. Captan & Orbit were recommended for my orchard with my brown rot & leaf spot problems...I add a 3rd fungicide, that I don't want to name, just because I have it. I was told that Captain has been around for a long time and still works better than some of the new chemicals.

I've recently spoken with several crop specialists regarding the home orchardist and trees & pests developing a chemical resistance. I was told to not worry about it, that's more of a problem for commercial growers than for the home gardener. I have no idea if this is correct or not, just repeating what I was told.

It's a definite challenge trying to maintain a small orchard that's surrounded by woods. The woods harbors every tree disease & pest imaginable, not to mention rabbits, deer, coon and hundreds of other critters that look at my trees as a delicacy. Commercial growers can afford to loose a couple trees a year to pests, when I loose a couple trees it's a disaster.

"One of the reasons I use a lot of Captan is I have a lot of it. I have 10, 50lb bags of Captan 50WP. Figure if I have it I'll use it. I mix it at the rate of 2.5 tbsp per gallon of water, I have enough to last me 1000 years LOL."

That is funny. 500 lbs. of Captan should last you a while.

I remember you said a widow whose husband used to own an orchard gave you all her husband's crop protectants. That was an expensive gift. The Captan alone would cost over $1200.

I suspect the fruit specialist probably recommended tank mixing two fungicides mostly for resistance issues. Spray guides many times recommend tank mixing two fungicides if one of them has a single mode of action. All the SIs (Orbit, Indar, etc.) have single site activity and so benefit from a tank mix with a multiple site fungicide (i.e. Captan).

Either way it doesn't sound like fungus is going to get through that spray program. It's an impenetrable fortress, which probably explains why your nectarines are pristine.

I'll admit I don't get as good control with my spray program. I do get a steady amount of brown rot whenever the humidity creeps up. So far, it's an amount I can live with.

Birds have damaged way more fruit than all other pests combined this year. Lately they've gone back to damaging at more acceptable levels. I don't know if it's the actions I've taken, or if it's just later in the season, but they're destroying much less.

Cherry leaf spot infections start fairly early on and perhaps got established when you were overseas? Supposedly it only takes two spots to cause a leaf to drop on some cultivars. I quit spraying cherry trees early on this year but started to see some leaf spot a couple weeks after harvest, so I started spraying them again. One tree went on to drop a good portion of leaves, but overall they seem to be holding their own now.

Impenetrable fortress? LOL

Hear ya on the birds! They eat almost everything. Have to be quick, they know when the fruit is ready before I do. Can clean out a tree in an afternoon. Mainly cowbirds, crows and robins.

Olpea, you have your &@%$ together. Wish I knew as much as you and Hman do about this stuff. Bet you have an awesome orchard. Are you a pro or hobbiest?

Today I placed my order for next years trees. Trying Cummins Nursery for the order. Hear good about them, reserving judgment. Ordered 15 trees from them 10 of which are antique/heirloom apples all on G16 rootstock, only thing they didn't have that I want is a Bing cherry. Have to look elsewhere, Probably ACN, Miller or Boyers. Any suggestion?

I have a question about irrigation systems. Going to start a new thread later when I get time. Smoking a pork butt & making smoked baked beans & smoked jalapeno poppers right now.

My orchard- nursery- homesite is surrounded by forest as are many of my clients and I don't think it creates nearly as much a problem as open meadow leading to fruit trees in my area. Manicured lawns are apt to harbor the least amount of insect pests but here I don't find proximity to forest much a problem. Squirrels are even more prevalent in my more suburban settings and coons are even found in NY City.

Your crop specialists suggests a couple things that I often state on this forum- most notably that from a mathematical standpoint the odds of developing pesticide resistance in a home orchard setting must be a very slim fraction of the possibility in sites with a thousand times more fruit trees- same species all in a row. Never seen any research, but I've been using myclobutanyl for 20 years in a manner (often only 2 sprays) the specialists suggest would lead to quick resistance but it just hasn't happened yet.

Mixing Captan has another advantage olpea is aware of but didn't mention- it redistributes during rain which can be helpful if growing leaves or even fruit need continuing protection. I just don't like the idea or it washing onto kids playing under the trees in rain.

"Bet you have an awesome orchard. Are you a pro or hobbiest?"

Well, my orchard isn't very pretty. I have a very large pile of wood chips, and a brush pile in the middle of the orchard. This year I've also not had the greatest weed control (I mulch under the trees, but they still need some weed control.) So the orchard looks pretty rough. Production and quality (flavorwise) has been good though, except the birds have destroyed a bunch of the crop this year.

I guess you might say I'm semi-pro. I currently have about 65 trees and sell at a Farmer's Market, roadside, and out my back door, but it's all part-time.

My current plan is to take it full time. My wife and I recently purchased 17.5 acres. Right now I have about 220 trees on order to start out with (almost all peaches with a few cherries and apples). I need to get the field terraced this fall so I can plant next Spring (peach trees must be planted in the top of a terrace to survive here).

My favorite place to order is Vanwell. I've ordered from them for several years and they have good quality stock at some of the cheapest prices (commercial or residential pricing). Adams County is good too, but they are slightly more expensive for commercial and significantly more expensive for residential. Vanwell sells more trees than Adams but doesn't have near the selection in terms of peaches. Both are reputable. Since you're a very serious fruit grower, I'd stay away from Millers unless you're desperate. I've never ordered from Boyer's before but they have some interesting peach varieties I'd like to try. I'm down to get their catalog via email when it comes out.

"Mixing Captan has another advantage olpea is aware of but didn't mention- it redistributes during rain which can be helpful if growing leaves or even fruit need continuing protection."

Good reminder. SI's are powerful in arresting infection but don't have as much protective activity as Captan. Michigan claims Captan has a week of protectant activity, whereas the SI's are only 3-4 days. Still the SI's can be mighty effective. Hman gets by with one or two Indar sprays in NY.

Olpea, I wish you the best of luck with your endeavor! Sounds like you have your work cut out for you. Are you doing all the planting yourself or hiring someone to plant? I sure as hell wouldn't want to do all that tree & post hole digging myself!!

One other thing...are you tilling the land first & amending the soil or just using what you have and planting? That's one of the things I wish I had done before I started my orchard. I think if I had created a better soil base I wouldn't have a lot of the problems I have now, plus it would be a lot easier planting and digging. Tilling isn't necessary with a couple trees as most people have but with your planned operation it might be worth the additional expense. Amending the soil from the start is a lot easier than top dressing and hoping it corrects itself over time.

Last question....are you doing this on your own or are you getting technical assistance from a university or crop specialist? That's the other thing I wish I did right from the start, would have prevented a lot of headaches and wasted time & money.

Sometimes I think about cutting everything down, plowing it under and starting over the right way.

Good Luck!

Thanks Jim,

My intentions are that my son and I will plant the trees. I plan to rent a dingo with a large auger. These are small peach trees, so they won't need much of a hole, but I don't want to try it by hand.

I've thought of doing some soil testing. The biggest issue with our soil and climate around here is getting peach trees up out of the ground (i.e. terraced). If that's done peaches grow like weeds, if it's not done, they die. I did a couple soil tests on the soil here and it was very low in P. However, the farm property has been used for cattle pasture for years, and so should have plenty of P (probably too much). Zinc was also low here, but I typically spray Ziram for early scab control which also provides zinc through foliar absorption (peach trees are heavy feeders of zinc). My general problem is that peach trees have been too vigorous here, so I wouldn't mind if the soil was a little less fertile at the farm (but it probably won't be). The soil profile looks very similar on both sites (20" of top soil followed by clay for as far as you want to dig). I plan to mulch the trees out there with wood chips and run a dry orchard, as I do here.

"are you doing this on your own or are you getting technical assistance from a university or crop specialist?"

I'm not quite doing it on my own. I've been touring orchards in the area for many years (partly with the Kansas Fruit Growers Assoc.) so compared to other orchards I don't think there are many surprises. There is a good fruit specialist in Missouri I've met and may see if I can get him to come out.

My wife and I looked for land for a while and no site is perfect. This ones not either. The biggest issue is air drainage. The part of the land I intend to plant does flatten out in a low spot, but the low spot extends for over a mile, so I'm hoping the flat area is large enough to accommodate cold air drainage. Part of the property is on a southward facing slope, but I don't intend to plant on that (at least not right away). I wish the property didn't have the air drainage concern but trying to find a property easily accessible to the public, zoned rural, doesn't flood, at a reasonable price is pretty difficult.

My biggest question was row spacing, since I don't have any experience running large equipment down rows. I emailed a few commercial peach growers and basically got back similar answers. Namely, it's personal preference. Jerry Frecon (fruit specialist from Rutgers) sent back the most humorous response - "I could take you to orchards with 16' row spacing and when they are heavily laden with fruit you can hardly walk down the rows. I see the growers drive his equipment through these blocks and break limbs, knock off and bruise fruit but he does not worry about it because he says he is picking up to 1200 bushels per acre at this close spacing and high vigor."

I've pretty much settled on 25'rows which is a bit more space than growers around here allow. I plan to allow 30' at the ends to turn equipment.

There is a very good resource here, http://www.clemson.edu/extension/peach/commercial/index.html
called the "Southeastern Peach Growers Handbook". It is obviously written for peach growers in the Southeast, but the Midwest doesn't have anything nearly that extensive, and a lot of the information crosses over.

You're not thinking of U-Pick, olpea?

ltilton,

Yes, I intend to offer some U-pick with blackberries, cherries, and peaches.