Hi fruitnut, I used cottonseed meal. I get it in 50# bags a feed mill. I hope this helps. I am interested in hearing what others use.

Your friend may have issues confused. Some organic programs don't permit sulfur as a pesticide but this naturally occurring mineral exists in all soils, as I'm sure you know, FN, and I expect that even the strictest of organic scripture must approve of sulfur as a soil acidifier. Certainly would seem to fit the program better than heavily sprayed cotton seed meal (unless it's from organic cotton and I've heard much stronger poisons than on food crops) and as you know, provides more efficacy long term.

joberry:

I'll suggest cottonseed meal to this individual because he's short on nitrogen as well. But he'll probably not like that any better than sulfur for reasons harvestman suggests. I certainly understand not using battery acid but I've got highly purified sulfur and they all get rejected. It's somewhat frustrating but to each his own. I'm just not convinced that the frozen organic blueberries he buys are better for his health than what he could grow using sulfur.

How can I pass up an opportunity to add to the confusion? Sulfur is not organic, nor is water, for that matter. But both of these materials are allowed to be used per the Federal Law that underlies USDA Organic Regulations. So there are two definitions of "organic," one meaning for chemists, and another meaning for people who are trying to comply with lawful organic farming standards. Sulfur is not an acid, it must be metabolized by bacteria living in the soil, and slowly converted to sulfuric acid, over time. So the process is organic, in the sense that living organisms consume the sulfur, using it as a food source. But I doubt that this argument will convince your friend. It might even convince him to stop drinking water. My bad...

How about some vinegar? he could even buy the organic vinegar if he really wants.

Obviously sulfur isn't chemically organic but it is incorporated into organic compounds just like many other elements. So unless it contains impurities it's about as harmless as anything.

I've suggested vinegar but it's not a long term solution in my view. But would be better than nothing.

I've also suggested naturally occurring humate deposites in this area some of which contain clearly visible elemental sulfur. Seems to me that is more likely to contain questionable impurities than the technical grade sulfur I've offered. But at least it's natural, maybe not organic??

As havestman said, cotton may contain heavy dose of pesticides since it's not a food crop. One needs to be careful in picking organic cottonseed meals. The ones in feed stores are usually ok since they are used as food for the cows. Some packages may also say organic on the labels. However, as acidifier, it's pretty weak and probably won't overcome the well water in fruitnut's area.

Vinegar probably is too expensive as well as not long lasting.

Sulfur is the only one I can think of too. It does need to be handled carefully though since spill and residue can corrode things long term. But most acidifier will do that anyway.

Lead, aluminum and many other harmful substances are found in soil both naturally and from previous owners of property. Grandma used lead powder on her roses and in the 70's they used to aerial spray Malathion, in many areas, to kill mosquitoes.

I am as nervous about chemicals as most people, but there is a point when you enter the, Howard Hughes realm of paranoia. These chemicals are bad, but trace elements of DDT and PCB's are still found in some places and on some imported fruits.

Sulfur on the other hand, is a natural compound and has never been linked to any long lasting health problems. Planting in pure peat moss may be another alternative. But once the plants are in, you can either add vinegar to the water, or let them grow in whatever diminished capacity they will follow. I doubt many organic blue berry growers have a field that is at the perfect PH naturally.

I can under stand a little of your friends rationale, and you may not be able to ever convince him sulfur is safe.

On a side note, does anybody else see migrant workers picking strawberries in fields and wonder why there are no porta johns around? I also, do not see any sinks to wash their hands after a trip into the bushes. I wash everything first, but apparently some restaurants do not; hence the outbreaks of ecoli over the past few years. Grow your own, it is just safer.

Where did this "organic" grower get the idea that sulfur wasn't acceptable in an organic program. Did he dream it?. Sulfur is the primary compound organic fruit growers use to fight scab on apples. I've never heard of sulfur being black listed as a material in organic production although it wouldn't surprise me if it was banned for certain insecticidal uses in some definitions. Can this person find any source for this idea outside his imagination?

My cottonseed meal bag tested out at 5 or 5.5 Ph as I recall. Probably does better (more acidic)
as it breaks down. I haven't been all that satisfied with its fertilization ability, but then I live in a pretty cool area where things break down more slowly.

P.S. I agree with Harvestman The crud they put on cotton would curl your hair. I can smell it in the bags of the stuff. I don't worry about a couple of shovelsful of cottonseed meal, but sulfur is pretty safe and a known quantity.

Its also getting expensive--about $20 for a 40 pound bag.

I use Hollytone on Blueberries. It is an organic acidic fertilizer and won't burn shallow roots.

Sulfur as a lone pure substance or a mineral would be rare to virtually absent in most soils. Sulfate or organic compounds with sulfur included can be common. Nevertheless, native mineral sulfur is common in many places worldwide and is totally natural. It is mined directly. It is the form that is most useful in producing acidity by the microbial oxidation to sulfurous (and maybe ultimately, sulfuric) acid. It is not notably acidic in and of itself. It is hard to imagine how it could not be considered natural and thus "organic" in the nonchemist sense.

The other form of sulfur in sediment and rock that can lead to acidity after some disturbance is sulfide (pyrite). It cannot readily occur in unflooded soil but with drainage of wet sediment or bringing to the surface can microbially oxidize and lead to very low pH. Acid mine (tailings) drainage is of this type.

I passed on the feeling about sulfur and the idea that it is apparently approved organic. Also suggested Holly Tone for acid loving plants and organic cottonseed meal. I'd like to try both of those.

Thanks for all the comments and suggestions. I think we made some progress for my friend.

Hi Fruitnut,

I use Espoma Organic Traditions Soil Acidifier. I got it from Homedepot but you can find it on Amazon as well.

I modified your weekly ammonium sulfate fertilizing regime a little bit... Once a week I combine 1 tbsp of this stuff and 1 tbsp of dried blood meal with two gallons of water. So far the plants are doing really well. I am not sure if it is because of the nitrogen from the blood meal or pH adjustment with the sulfur LOL.

I am experimenting with cocoa shell mulch since cocoa shell are acidic as well.

Here is a link that might be useful: Organic Soil Acidifier from Amazon

Tonton, are your plants in pots? I have a bag of that stuff, and didn't realize it was water soluble? please let us know how it works out for you.

Are you checking PH regularly?

Sulfur is not water soluble.

Yes I am growing in pots.

As far as being water soluble or not I will say 80% of the pellets I put in the 2 gallon container get "mixed" or broken down to very small particles into the water, while other 20% will still remain in very small pellet form. I do have to vigorously mix the soil acidifier and the dried blood in the container while adding water in order to mix them well. If I don't use the solution right away I do see stuffs settling to the bottom.

The reason why I am doing this is because I do not want to leave pellets of soil acidifier on the pot, I have a 18 month daughter who loves to help me (or at least she thinks she is helping me) while I tend to my plants and the last thing I want is for her to eat ingest something that she is not suppose to ingest ;)

I just planted some blueberry plants. Ive never tested my soil, but every single house in the entire area have hydrengea, and none of them are blue... Either way, just to be sure, I planted them in a 2:1 ration of peat to soil. I then took a liter of coffee grounds, ans dpread them around the plant about a foot away. I then Put 2 inches of pine needles my neighbor gave me ( they dont use anything nasty at all, we call them the "hippies".)and worked them both into the soil lightly. I then covered the area with a thin layer of news paper, and then multched with leaves/pine needles.

My logic was that the peat will only make the ph acidic, where I placed it, and isnt really long term. So by the time its effects are gone, the layers of compost/leaves/pine needles will already be acidifying the soil. Since ive read blueberries like really acid soil, I wasnt too paranoid about over acidifying the soil.

THey seem to love it. ITs almsot time for more coffee grounds, seeing as we are getting tons of rain.

If you have the room, you might want to plant some pine trees near or around your blue berries, and dont bother raking up the needles. If anything spread them around.

How can you get more organic then pine needles from trees that are already there?

canadianplant,

You might want to check out this thread concerning coffee grounds. I used to use them too but it turns out they are actually about neutral in pH, most of the acidity is lost in the brewing process. They are a good source of mulch however and if your mixture is working by all means keep it up!

Here is the link:

Here is a link that might be useful: coffee grounds

I love coffee, my blueberry bushes tolerate it, the red wigglers however love it, they come out at night to writhe in it and do their thing.

My blueberries seem to have responded well to orange, grapefruit peelings. The plants were dull and pale before I started laying the peelings on top of the mulch and watering it down. They have perked up nicely with good dark color and the new growth is doing very well.

tonton
Are you putting a tbsp of sulfur on your plants every week? Not sure if you plants are in ground or in pots but that is probably more sulfur than you need. As soon as the Bactria start using all that sulfur you are going to start to get a very big drop in ph.

groem,

I mix 1 tbsp of organic soil acidifier (30% sulfur) plus 1 tbsp of dried blood with 2.5 - 3 gallons of water and use the solution on my potted blueberry plants once a week.

I used my cheapo pH meter last month and the soil pH was around 6.5. I am not sure if my meter is working, I will test it again soon to see if there is a drop in pH.

Cottonseed meal?

Thanks justjohn for the great idea(citrus as acidifier). right now I'm adding vinegar when watering, but i have a ton of all kinds of citrus which we won't be able to eat even if we switch to 100% citrus diet. So to blueberry it goes, at least for a try.

Hmm - I think my question has been addressed by milque_toast and another poster above. Was going to say "what about citrus?"

I just received a new pH meter (actually for wine making), but wanted to test some citricy compost, mixed with redwood sawdust. Because we have a lot of citrus-type fruit peels, I compost them - adding sawdust and shredded paper to keep down fruit flies. The resultant material looks very acidic.

One of the reasons I've hesitated to grow blue berries is because they require this acid diet - and was not willing to spend that much time with them.

We now have an abundance of plum and apricot pulp (canning and wine leavings) which should also be acidic.

I realize most things composted usually create a neutral compost, but my curiosity was aroused over this acid discussion. One thing tho - our irrigation water is also alkaline, so that means fighting the pH all of the time.

Just my 2 c's.

Bejay