Stick with me, here. I do have a point. ===== http://decryptedmatrix.com/live/food-activists-now-labeled-terrorists-by-fbi/ http://gawker.com/5892639/how-the-fbi-monitored-crusty-punks-anarchist-hangouts-and-an-organic-farmers-market-under-the-guise-of-combating-terrorism http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVsTTXgR08A Having seven days of food in your house makes you a terrorist, according to many of America's law enforcement agencies. The FBI terrorist watch list specifically refers to 'bulk food' purchases, referring to such things as long term storage, using MRE's as an example, but not limiting the language to any other foods for long term storage. http://info.publicintelligence.net/FBI-SuspiciousActivity/Military_Surplus.pdf http://www.fda.gov/Food/GuidanceRegulation/FSMA/ucm247548.htm Includes farmer's markets, roadsides stands, organic food sales. So, if you're selling anything from your garden... you are violating the law. If you are contributing food to others, you are a possible federal law breaker. Other laws apply to selling plants and seeds from your garden. (reporting the income to the IRS is one of those many and several laws.) http://www.foodquality.com/details/article/4547041/Small_Businesses_Tip_the_Scales_for_FSMA_Exemptions.html?tzcheck=1 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seed_saving#Legality Many of the seeds, plants and cuttings you trade and swap or sell? Because it's cheaper and easier than buying at full retail? Hell, because it's fun! Yeah. You're a law breaker. Mebbe even a domestic terrorist. At the moment, many gardeners in the US are on a government watch list...simply because we garden, dehydrate, can, freeze and store food from our gardens. That's the undeniable reality. That's not speculation. That's not conspiracy theory. It has already happened in the real world. (Monsanto isn't the only one who has patents on food items. Among many others, chances are that your local university has patents on food items, as well.) Richard Morrissette's (Democrat) call for proposals for community gardening? To help the poor? To help feed poor kids? To help feed the aged, on fixed incomes? It's the government. The program will involve even more rules and regulations about gardening and food, before it's all over and done. Accept that as a given. It's the same government -and mostly the same political party Richard belongs to- that has written, enacted and implemented all of the laws -and more- that I referenced above. Many of you have already violated many of those laws, rules and regulations. Heirloom seeds? In the EU, the government is already trying to control heritage seeds. http://www.survivalorganicseeds.com/2013/05/gmo-new-eu-seed-law-genocide-update.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heirloom_plant http://www.vintageveggies.com/information/why_heirlooms.html The original version of the above listed odd safety act did not exclude heirloom seeds or family gardens. Think about it. It wasn't an oversight. It was originally written that way on purpose. The more you involve the government in gardening of any kind, the fewer things you can do in your own garden. You become a lawbreaker, simply by gardening. This is my point: If the forum wants to talk about the politics of gardening, fine and dandy. There are other pov not limited to those offered by a state level democrat representative from a local city. There are conservative and libertarian povs, to offer, as well, including the thought that such proposals should be taken up either by individuals or charitable groups, including religious groups, instead of through government sponsorship. (Yes, I avoid the religious themed threads, here, but find them, imo, to be more than just a bit off topic) If those other political views are not welcome here, while openly liberal and progressive ideas about government sponsored sustainable gardening are encouraged? Well, you've got a problem. It isn't my problem. I'm not limiting what you can say or do, here. If we talk about gardening, fin. I like it. If we want to talk about the politics of gardening, other views should be accepted, at least for consideration, and not simply dismissed or discredited, as a few have tried to do to my views on this topic. According to the evidence, with a democrat or progressive liberal pov, promoting a democrat party proposal for government involvement in gardening? You've limited your own freedom to garden and you've limited your ability to share food, seeds and plants from your own garden with others. That's my first question wrt Mr. Morrissette's proposal: How will it limit my freedom to garden? W/o evidence or proof, any assurances to the contrary are pretty empty. He has voted for too many other programs and laws which limit the freedoms of Oklahomans or increase the scope and power of government. His own words and deeds, and deeds of his political party, stand as evidence against backing his proposal.

"It is interesting that only those who have deep Christian religious feelings would like to close this thread, as if they feel threatened by discussions about religion and its appropriatemess in the courtroom or a public forum. As terricks wrote, no one had to even open this thread." I am not a Christian, and am not threatened by discussions about religion. What I am threatened by is the attempt to eradicate any expression of religion from public venues in this country. As to saying that no one had to open this thread - does that mean that someone like me should have looked at the word "prayer", thought "uh-oh" and stayed away? Or having opened it, should not have commented? As to the thread being about the OP's letter to the courtroom - that's true. But only up to the ninth post, where the topic was taken beyond the court. Then people gradually began writing about schools, the Pledge, etc., making it a discussion about Christianity in public life. There's certainly nothing wrong with that. But it was inevitable that others would post with opposing attitudes, being as we have free speech in this country. And that's why the Garden Web has specific rules stated on almost every forum that discussions about religion and politics are not going to be tolerated and that Hot Topics was created for that purpose. FWIW, Mohammed is not a deity; in fact, the suggestion that he is, is a grave offense to believers. That's why the religion of Muslims is called Islam and not Mohammedanism. As for Jews and Muslims being offended by a prayer offered by a Christian - if the prayer doesn't mention Jesus, there can't possibly be any offense. Prayers by the three Abrahamic religions that only mention God are virtually interchangeable. Barb5 - Slavery is indeed condoned (by lack of condemnation) in the Old Testament. That's why I wrote the New Testament. Anyone who reads the NT and comes away thinking that slavery is okay, has not understood the NT. Addressing your question about churches in the Soviet Union: Certain Russian Orthodox and Baptist churches were permitted to remain open. KGB men attended services and kept notes on who attended. Clergymen were expected to cooperate with the KGB; if not, they went to the Gulag. Communism in its inception was atheist, e.g. Marx's statement that "religion is the opium of the people" was taken seriously by the militant atheists. Stalin actually tried to get rid of the Orthodox Church, but was unsuccessful. You are right, though, in your belief that religion was hated; a practicing believer was watched, watched, watched, and public religiousity was against the law (although the word "law" and the USSR barely go together).

Thanks to everyone for your prayers and well wishes! There were still nine in the hospital yesterday morning, but now down to three. My boss’ son is one of the three still hospitalized, but he was moved from ICU last night into a regular room and is expected to be released Friday if all continues to go well. I’m told the other two still hospitalized are improving, as well. Services for Sarah are being held today, and yes, Ann, aren’t her parents such an inspiration of faith and grace in times of tragedy. And Sarah’s texts to friends during the bus trip and her last journal entry from the bus trip…beautifully uplifting and heartbreaking at the same time.

Iris. Hailey just beautiful. Pet owners sure do go thru much pain and sorrow along with the joy. I'm sorry you lost your lovely girl. ((((HUGS)))) I've never lost a pet since Lil is my first but just the thought is painful. Iris, I'm one of those that don't share my feelings irl. Seems it's much easier in the forum. I have had dramatic things happen in my life but I'm not really a dramatic person although I suppose with my sharing at the forum it probably appears I am. Lol. Desertsteph...LOL at the nurse. I have raised three boys..my adult sons.....need I say more. LOL when my Michael was 12 he climbed a fence at my sister's cutting his hand and ended up with a boat load of stitches. Two days later he was running around our back yard when the neighbors dog came charging biting him in the leg...more stitches and a drainage tube. ...that same day he was running down the steps fell off of one measly step and broke a leg..same leg as the dog bite. They cut a window in the cast. Oh my yep it was always something. I do certainly have drama in my life..who doesnt. Lol