I know that ziplock bags are easier to find and to use than others, but talking to experts they have recommended wax paper bags. I'm guessing the fruits heat up in plastic, but in waxpaper bag i'm not sure how sweet fruit will get with no sunlight.
I'm debating which ones to use. And how about bagging grapes? Black rot is normally caused by humidity. Wouldn't bagging cause moisture and humidity inside the bag?

Bass

I had to give up on the bagging this year. Our dog likes to jump up and tear them off the trees. I was going to fence in the trees but we have the house on the market and can't put up anything which might be deemed unsightly. As it is, the dog is eating whatever apples she can reach, and here I thought she might help keep away the squirrels.

It is difficult to know how much effort to put in with the house on the market; we're eating Lapins Cherries now (first picking yesterday), but might not see much else. I sprayed a few times, but ought to really spray again now. I wrote off the plums without being able to care for them thoroughly and went ahead and pruned them back pretty heavily last week.

Bass, my impression on the plastic bags is if the corners are cut off there is some breathing and that does an OK job. For the fruit more likely to rot (peaches, plums apricots), it is less good than a bag that can breathe, and that is why I am trying these cotton drawstring bags. For apples the plastic seems to work fine since they are less prone to rot. I don't know about grapes, I haven't seen much comment on people bagging grapes. But they do seem to be more on the prone-to-rot side. The wax paper bags sound a bit better to me since they will breathe a bit. In fact maybe I should try wax paper bags on my plums.. The grapes will still get about half of the sun through the wax paper. In any case they don't need sun to ripen. Some winemakers believe the grapes should get sun to get better flavors in the grapes but I don't think all winemakers agree with that. For me, I lost about 20% of my grapes to the birds last year and if it keeps up at that percentage I am not going to bother bagging the grapes.

One other issue about the kind of bag is how much heat the fruit is getting. Plastic will likely increase the heat; wax paper will perhaps decrease it a bit, and cotton will definitely decrease it. I expect this can be used to good effect to get either more or less heat on the fruit to improve the flavor. Some apples really dislike heat and I am hoping the cotton bags will improve their flavor. I have my Gravensteins in cotton bags and am hoping that will make it a worthwhile tree in my hot climate. Speaking of hot, it was 103F in my orchard yesterday, yikes!

Scott

I've bagged all my apples this year, and some Japanese pears as well. In previous years, I've used the double layer Japanese bags. This year, for comparison, I did about 1/3 in plastic drawstring bags. So far, the fruit looks fine -- though it almost never tops 100' here in Seattle. A number of people in my local fruit club (Seattle Tree Fruit Society) are using nylon footies -- the kind they used to always ask you to wear when trying on shoes. I haven't tried them, but some love them. The great advantage of the Japanese bags is that at the end of the season, I can put them in curbside yardwaste. They work quite well. As I understand it, three weeks before picking, the outer bag should be removed so that the apple can color up. My apples are relatively late, for Seattle, and the weather is quite cool by the time I'm near picking. There aren't any codling moth or apple maggot around. I just remove the bags all together, which is easier than trying to separate them. If I had summer apples, I might be thinking of something else.

I don't wait until after June drop to bag either. I just thin and bag as soon as there is enough apple to catch in a bag. If I've chosen well, I don't lose many in June. I lost about 10 this year. Does anyone know any other reason why I should wait until after June drop?

Lisa in Seattle

I tried using the cotton drawstring bags this year, on blueberries. I bagged a couple of clusters of fruit on several plants, with the intention of sparing a few berries from the birds, so I could at least try some from the newer varieties. Not only did the bagged berries turn out great, but the birds avoided the un-bagged berries on the same bushes as well as nearby bushes without bags. The white bags seemed to scare them away, at least for a couple of weeks. The only problem is you can't see if the berries are ripe inside the bag, and not all berries ripen evenly.

As far as grapes go, the problems are usually from birds and fungal diseases, and not some insect, so using some sort of breathable nylon mesh bag that lets light and air in, but hides the grapes from the birds, would seem like a good way to go. I replaced all my grapes last year and have no fruit yet, so I will have to wait until next year to try it. The main issue is finding a good source of the right type of bags. Any ideas?

This year has been relatively low pest for us. We didn't bag due to house on the market (closing next week so most will be left behind).

Yesterday we stripped the Pristine Apples (all ripe) and not a one had belmishes. Of course, I did pick a few buggy ones off earlier one when thinning and I sprayed only once early on.

Jonogold, Suncrisp, and Shizuka are also loaded and the apples are very large and 95% blemish free at this point.

However, 100% of the McIntosh apples are bad (bugs).

I've got a few grafted trees potted and will bag them at the new place once they fruit.

I have a very young plum tree that fruited for the first time this year. It held onto 4 plums in total that reached the size of about a large cherry.

Just before they were about to ripen up I noticed some blemishes on a couple of them and was concerned it might be some type of insect that would ruin my chance to get my first taste of fruit.

I bagged the one unblemished plum with a sandwich sized Ziplock bag with the corner cut out for drainage. It seemed fine until yesterday I noticed that the plum had split. It hadn't yet rotted but I ate it.

It turns out that the other minor damage I had seen on the other fruits was likely due to a green stinkbug which I removed and "talked to" as my girlfriend calls it when she sees a spider and needs to be rid of it.

2 of those fruits had already ripened and were quite good. The split, bagged one was more bland and pithy.

Kiwinut -- you might try the nylon footies that people use when they try on shoes. They expand with the fruit as it grows. You can buy them by the box. There are a couple of articles about them at the Seattle P.I. I'll include a link. Right at this moment 10:55 am pacific time, their website is having technical difficulties. (I called.) They should be up and running again soon.

Another link: http://seattlepi.com/nwgardens/267261_ciscoe22.html

Here is a link that might be useful: nylon footies

To update my bagging experiences this year, I was out of town for exactly five days where the cat was not patrolling in the yard, and in that time the squirrels pulled off all my plums in cotton bags and ate them by chewing through the bags. GRR. The apple bags have been holding very well. Quite a few of the peach/plum bags have dropped on their own accord, for reasons I don't fully understand -- some of the fruits were attacked by bugs but most fruits looked fine still when I opened the bag. The bags when wet add a good bit of weight to the fruit, and the combination of wetness and wind may be too much for the stem to take. Plus I am sure some were "June drop" fruits that would have come off anyway. Next year I may try the booties on the peaches and plums. I *would* have harvested about half of the plums I originally bagged, and 2/3 of the bagged peaches are still holding, so as long as I can keep the squirrels at bay I do hope to get some peaches.

Scott

Hi Scott,

In previous years, I bagged early at the same time as thinning. This year, I decided to wait. This turned out to be a mistake because I did not spray in the meantime due to frequent rain. I have heavy losses to Plum Curculio:/ There wonÂt be much to harvest this year.

I have not found any disadvantage to bagging early using the ziplock-type plastic bags on apples. I have not had any problems with rot when the apples were sound to begin with. I have seen a couple apples that scorched, but they were exceptional. Overall, the results with the plastic bags have been positive. Next year, I will go back to bagging early:)

Regards,
PoseyPlanter

One of the reasons I had used the cotton bags is I thought they would deter the squirrels, but apparently not :-( One thing I had wished I had done is to tie the drawstrings to the limb itself, then the squirrels could not knock the fruit off. But they would probably just chew it right there.

Once the squirrels tasted the forbidden fruit they have been pouring in, after several years of no squirrel issues at all. I haven't been around enough to shoot enough of them to make a dent in the population, so today I am baiting them and working from home with a window view of the bait. Two squirrel pelts so far today. I am probably going to have to also start poisoning them when we are out of town since that is when the infestation took hold. For this year they have pretty much cleaned me out of peaches :-(

Scott

Don't you folks have earwigs in your fruit bags?

Kurt, Pristine on the eleventh. Beats me.

We are going to have 105 degrees F (and maybe plus) Friday, Saturday, Sunday and Monday. That is really going to bring on my peaches.

Yes, earwigs do go in the bags. They don't generally eat the apple, however. Sometimes there's a little mess on top of the apple, but it just brushes aside. I've read that people hang flower pots in their trees, with straw inside. The straw attracts the earwigs as a place to hide. Then you can get rid of them, or redistribute them somewhere useful. I've never tried it. I'd rather not mess around with the little "pincher-bugs".

Lisa

Here's something I tried this year on my grapes since a few years back a new bug, what we call a rose bug came into the NE of WI(looks very close to a Japaneese beetle. Not sure what the true scientific name is - even University of WIS people couldn't ID or could care less - anyhow). They come in late spring, last 3-4 weeks, and are heavy feeders on grapes that are just forming - depleting 80% or more of crop. Chemicals such as Sevin or powders work good for about 4 hours as it seems they readily adapt - continue destroying the fruit. The only other place I notice them other then on rose bushes is the red and black raspberries plants(but since none of that fruit has formed yet have yet see any affects as I have lots of that fruit later on. Their biggest activity is to mate and feed on those grapes.

Similar to mesh bag principle, I purchased some $1.00/yd (or less) mesh sheeting in the sewing department of Walmart. Cut into squares and formed a "bag" arout each bunch. It seems to be light-weight, held up to rain, sun, and wind just fine (won't know if can be reused next season until the end of this season). Uses "bread-wrapper" wire ties (get in a bulk spool) and fastened to branch. So far worked great. Have tried also on peaches OK - apples have not as way to many to do but really don't have problem there. Do regular sraying. Not sure it will keep out tiny tent catepillar babies. Adults, being larger, it most likly will.

Good Luck

Woody

My concern is the big yellow bees on the ripe apples. Wonder if the mesh sheeting will keep them out. I am going to try and fabricate some sort of wire/mesh apparatus around my White Limbertwig apples(I have 12 that may make it and want to do whatever I can to get them to eating stage, which is not until October) that hopefully those bees cannot get through.

Nancy

Hey I ate my first ripe bagged fruit!! There was one small plum that was too green back when the squirrels were going nuts. It was a perfect, unblemished Shiro and it tasted delicious. I am now feeling a bit better about my bagging prospects of stone fruit with these cotton bags. I also have finally gotten the squirrel population under control with well-placed pellets. There are a few late peaches plus a few apples left as well so I will have a fruit or two more, and next year maybe a lot more.

Scott

Maggot Barriers provide nearly 100% protection against apples maggots on apples, pears, and asian pears. They are nylon soxs that slip over the fruit in early June. They allow sun, air, and water to pass right through.

I tried plastic baggies 2 years ago and found that even though I clipped the corners, water still collected in the bags. I also got sun damage on some of the sw facing apples.

Since we're getting into apple maggot season, gardening experts in the Seattle area are writing about the effectiveness of the barriers. For more information, you can read the April 11, 2007 Seattle Times "Plant Talk" article or go to the Ciscoe Morris gardening website.

linda- how can we buy the maggot Barriers you refer to?

Here's one online store that sells the nylon footies in boxes of 144 for $10. Buy two and get free shipping (standard ground). I've just ordered from here this morning -- so can't comment yet on quality or service.

Someplace I saw a box of 500 for cheaper, but I can't find it now. Below you will get 144 for $5.

Scott

Dang it, Scott. No wonder I got free shipping.

Scott, the site for the footies is unsecured. They want you to enter your credit card numbers under ordinary web page where any snooper can see, so anyone can intercept your numbers in transit. It should have the security lock symbol on the task bar and with an https:// as the beginning of the URL. I will contact them about that one.

Well, I called Store Supply Warehouse and placed my orders. I told them to contact their website administrator to upgrade to a secure url when they intend to let the users type in their credit card numbers.

I ordered 4 boxes of women's and 2 boxes of men's footies. Men's are more expensive by $1 per box. Shipping was around $8, not really bad for 6 boxes in all.

They're not for the fruits alone, I will surely try them on the fruits, but we will be using those for our visitors after taking off their shoes, kind of the reverse way of usage.

I called some local shoe stores (all two of them!) and they gave me two boxes of 100 each for free! I love small town living.

Joe you are right; I didn't notice it was insecure.

By the way I am mainly doing Surround spraying this year (too many fruits to bag) but am also going to do a bit of cotton bagging like last year, plus hopefully some experiments with the baggies and these footies. My overall impression without trying it myself is the footies are the best bagging method compared to the other approaches.

Scott

does anyone know if there is any difference between the MaggotBarriers described by a poster in this thread, and the regular nylon fotties.

It looks like Joe's email did some good. Store Supply Warehouse now has secure credit card ordering. I just ordered a couple of boxes of the footies -- about $20 for two boxes inclusive of shipping.

how do you secure the footies? Does it require stapling? I may try this bagging thing, but will probably go with plastic zip locks for my apples.

What takes up more time - spraying with surround 8 times or bagging once?

tradergordo:

There is another thread running right nearby here somewhere, in which Scott suggests rolling up two ends of the footie and tying it right over the branch or twig with a square knot. Harvesting will require a sharp pocket knife to get these things off.

I tried Scott's method, and very much prefer it to stapling, which I found awkward and ineffective at giving me a good seal around the "stem", if you can call it that on a peach. My footies came from Store Supply Warehouse, in Harrisburg, PA, and they were very reasonably priced, even with shipping. It's cheaper to buy several boxes rather than just one, since shipping and handling remains the same. I am looking at my footie box right now, and see their phone number is 1-800-823-8887. When I called them and gave them my credit card number, the footies were somehow here the next day.

I don't know how you would compare labor input of footie installation with use of Surround. Footies are tedious to install, but when it's over, it's over. One of the principal reasons I bag fruit is to avoid having to lug the sprayer around eight or more times a season. To me, elimination of pesticide use is a nice bonus. Once installed, the footies are quite unobtrusive on the trees; much less so than plastic or the ghostly white of Surround.

With the Scott footie-tying method, I am even going to try covering the nectarines, which are nearly impossible to do with plastic. Never actually grew a ripe nectarine here yet. But I will continue to use plastic sandwich bags on the apples.

Don Yellman, Great Falls, VA

Thanks Don, good info. You say you will continue to use sandwich bags on the apples - why do you prefer sandwich bags for apples vs. footies? Is it simply the cost difference, is one easier to install, or is there another reason?

I only have apple and pear trees...

Can you reuse the footsies...or did i just miss reading something?

"I ordered 4 boxes of women's and 2 boxes of men's footies."

Joe - just curious - do you see some advange to using the men's footie? They are black, so I would assume they might get a little bit hotter. They are a little bigger - but what fruit that is bigger than a woman's foot would you use it for?

Don't use the black color footies on apples. Very harsh chemicals are used to set the black dye in the nylon. The brown color footies are also dyed. The Seattle Tree Fruit Society offers white maggot barriers that that do not contain any dye. You can order them by emailing seattletreefruitsociety@hotmail.com. They cost $20 for 300 in a bag. All of the proceeds go to the non-profit organization which supports fruit research and education.

The nylon footies were useless for me this year against Codling Moth. I heard similar results from other growers in the Portland area.

Apparently 2006 was a very mild year for for Codling Moth damage that happened to correspond with many people's trial of the footies.

I'll try Don's ziplock technique for 2008 apples unless I hear something better before June.

Bump

Who's bagging? Results? My plums got smoked by PC this year, peaches look good, except the Rose beetles that took some and the wind that took some. Apples look ok, but they are bagged, although i forgot a few and they look as good as the bagged ones. I still think PC took a few of the apples because i found their mark on some dropped ones.