Oh... also another symptom--fatigue. thanks! mary

Mary:

I hate to say it, but your illness is NOT simple. Therefore, unless you have some extensive training in herbology, I don't believe your path will take you to a successful destination because there's no simple solution. It requires extensive evaluation in order to develop a game plan.

I suggest you find an herbalist who actually knows what he's doing (That's a crap shoot in itself.).

HerbDoctor

Hmm.. well I've been thinking this over and talking to others with fibromyalgia in a support group. I think what I am going to do is use specific herbal teas to help me get to sleep instead of RX drugs and I'm going to start using pro-biotics and green juices in hopes of being healthy enough to continue using an RX NSAID for pain.

So I think since there doesn't seem to be any expertise on this = I will start with teas from herbs I already have in my garden; chamomile, mint, passionflower, and perhaps get some valerian growing.

so maybe it won't be as complicated as all that. :)

Incredible!

I also have an exercise program in mind to help me with stiffness and weakness, lower blood pressure and improve my mental outlook-- it is called 'working in my garden.'

So far I can do about 30 minutes. :)

cwren:

Just a question: How do you determine which herbs you need?

HerbDoctor

I use Valerian to help me sleep and bromelain (sp?) to help with some of the pain. I've been able to stay off any meds for my fibro, so far. I've also started to use acupressure and yoga helps, too.

But what SYSTEM do you use in order to determine which herbs to use? How do you determine what's needed for you personally?

HerbDoctor

For me, HerbDoctor, I treat the symptoms. I'm already on some medications that are metabolized oil through my liver, so, not having extreme fibro symptoms or severe daily pain, I treat for the brain fog by using lots of gingko. For the joint pain, I use arnica. I was taking the bromelain on a doctor friends advice because they know I would be more inclined to take herbs or homeo over RX. I also take milk thistle to help cleanse my liver.

I want to ask you a question because of what you said about brain fog.
Do you crave sugar?

Thanks.

HerbDoctor

I want to ask you a question because of what you said about brain fog.
Do you crave sugar?

Thanks.

HerbDoctor

Not speaking for czecher --but 'brain fog' or 'fibro fog' is a well known symptom of fibromyalgia. For me it gets worse when I am in a crowd or noise or stress, and if I don't get enough good sleep--so treating sleep helps.

As for what 'system' do you use. I personally use trial and error-- with the guidance of a medicinal plant field guide.

Here's a "shot gun" observation . . . .
I noticed that often times, some of my clients have brain fog accompanied with sugar cravings. This is almost always a sure sign of candida among other symptoms.
cwren, from what you say, it sounds like there is, instead, some adrenal problems. If that's the case, there could be liver stagnation, heat, dryness, etc. It can't be determined exactly what and where the conditions are without a complete evaluation.
The best system I've found is a GOOD Chinese pulse and tongue diagnosis. Unfortunately, in this country and many parts of the world, the individual has no other way to determine their own needs. The challenge is trying to determine which herbs are good for a specific individual. Going merely by symptomology is not the best way to go, but it's often times helpful in a miner way.
I like the Chinese system of herbology because of the accurate classification of the herbs.
For more information I've learned a lot by going to http://www.sacredlotus.com/
I have no commercial connection to this site, but it's great educational material for a truly scientific system of herbology. After all, the Chinese have been developing and refining this system of herbology for about 2-3,000 years (?).

HerbDoctor

Fibromyalgia is not the best-defined of disorders, but one factor that cannot be blamed for it is Candida infection.

Candida is often blamed for a great variety of unrelated complaints, but true systemic Candida infection is quite uncommon and typically related to serious immune dysfunction (i.e. that seen in AIDS or immune suppression due to drugs or genetic disorders). In the vast majority of people, it makes no more sense to blame Candida for symptoms than to target any of the other commensal organisms that have co-existed with us for thousands or millions of years.

Here is a link that might be useful: Fibromyalgia causes and treatment

Eric:

If you're referring to my comments, then I think you misunderstood. You may have jumped to conclusions.

I'm not saying that candida is a CAUSE of fibromyalgia. I'm saying that IN THIS CASE, they're possibly parallel symptoms to this individual's specific situation.

Identifying all the parallel symptoms helps create a composite picture of the individuals' problems or conditions. On that basis, a complete and balanced herb remedy can be developed.

HerbDoctor

I don't think I'm very sugar craving actually, and I know I don't have candida. The symptoms I laid out are pretty standard with fibromyalgia--unfortunately I also have degenerative discs that do impinge on nerves and arthritis pretty much everywhere.

The latest research on fibro is pointing pretty consistently toward a brain disorder. which of course 'could' possibly have some diet implications but also seems to have some genetic factors in many of the patients.

Basically my problem is thought to be-- that I had chronic pain that was not treated adequately for many years and as a result my central nervous system is 'sensitized' so that I feel things as pain or stress that shouldn't be as difficult as they are--which-- could also seem like an adrenal problem--I do see what you are aiming at-- no doubt my adrenals could use some help--better diet and etc.

I'm supposed to see a neurologist next month to see if there is something else going on with my spine or brain or nerves.

At a time when I'm wanting to be on less medications my dr seems to think more would be more beneficial.

I do think nourishing the adrenals and cleaning out my system is a good idea--just don't believe it will cure the problem. After nearly 30 years I have tried pretty much everything out there--now I'm just reaching for ways to at least cut down on some of the drugs.

I swear I posted a reply but it seems it is not here.

I do not specifically crave sugar but will eat sweets and often eat more now that I am not working because I am working out more.

The fog is more of a robbing of my short term memory and some basic things, too. I really don't remember things from the current past. I also stumble when I speak because I often cannot think of the next word I want to say. It is very hard to deal with some times because I feel like I am looking like an idiot while talking to people and then I just freeze as my brain searches for the word. I find my self using a picture map, if you will, to try to associate the word so I can say it. Doesn't work most of the time, especially when I cannot even picture what I want to say. One good example is when I was at the feed store and the clerk asked if I could do my turkey call. I did it and she asked if I could do more and I went into that stupor trying to find a picture of a chicken in my brain so I could make that sound - was at a total blank, I wasn't able to recall it until I got home.

"I'm not saying that candida is a CAUSE of fibromyalgia. I'm saying that IN THIS CASE, they're possibly parallel symptoms to this individual's specific situation."

"Brain fog" and "sugar cravings" are not symptoms traceable to Candida infection, despite the claims of various websites, popular literature, supplement sellers and certain herbalism promoters who support the idea of a "Candida overgrowth" syndrome.

It's another of those generalized alt med explanations for a cohort of poorly defined symptoms, that doesn't hold water.

Memory is a problem for me too. We moved a great deal the past 8 or 9 years and I cannot even begin to say how difficult it is to be in a new place with fibro. Getting lost in familiar places is one thing--having to cope with constant change and brain fog is a whole new ball game.

Also new jobs etc.. I finally gave up. I don't work outside the home anymore just cannot 'learn' well enough and have to pace myself too much. etc.

As for memory-- we had a houseful of guests last week it was so noisy and confusing for me. I walked in my own kitchen and couldn't remember where I kept my dish towels.

I also lose words, and have some social anxiety now as I am not sure of myself in new situations at all.

Last night I was sure I had Alzheimers.. but then I remember all these things are just more symptoms of fibro.

Mary:

Think "parallel symptoms", not "cause." I have a kind of picture now that you've elaborated. In Chinese herbology, we have to look to see if some part of the body is weak (deficient) or too strong (excess). Also, is there part of you that's too dry (from heat) or too moist (from lack of heat). Dry heat can rise causing eye problems, thinking problems, etc. Too much moisture can stagnate creating a different type of heat with symptoms such as heaviness, sore muscles, etc. (These are just examples. Not saying they apply to you.) Only then can one determine the category of herbs to use.

I'm trying to point out how complex a matter can get. After knowing the above conditions, you're able to determine which herbs you want to formulate.

I shouldn't try to use modern medical terms such as fibromyalgia or candida. It's really not the language of herbology and it only upsets the modern medicos on this forum. (I won't mention his name, but his initials are . . . "Eric")

Even with my many years of experience, I can't begin to suggest any herbs because suggesting herbs for use without a complete and balanced formula can actually make some of your symptoms worse. Just be careful.

Sorry.

HerbDoctor

I am not a trained herbalist but if I had Fibro symptoms the herb I would try is Gotu Kola. If you read up on it you will see that perhaps it can help with both the joint symptoms and the brain fog.

jan

Jill:

Good call. I can see where it would help. It's classed sometimes in with Alterative herbs. But it crosses over into many other areas. For instances, it can definitely help with chronic eczema/dermatitis and associated skin problems since it cleanses the lymphatics.

The action of the herb is due to it being a cooling diuretic where dampness needs drying.

HerbDoctor

I'm right there with you! I fell in 2004 and suffered a mild concussion. My life stopped and turned bad immediately. I had fibromyalgia, constant headaches, extreme memory loss, sleep apnea, brain fog and lots of pain. I have been medicated since 2004. Nothing worked. I got declined for SS disability. So PO'd. Trying not to feel disabled. I work in the garden every day. Try not to be depressed and upset. It doesn't help anything. I am growing as many medicinal herbs as I can. Good luck and God bless!

Hi zackey.. Mine started with an injury too. in 1985. :( Ah well.. anyhow on good days i'm in the garden a while and I have put things in pots too so I don't have to tackle hard ground.

This is the life I have, and I will live it. It may not be my planA but It must be Gods.

BTW-- unless you have a brain tumor or something, everyone gets turned down the first time. Don't give up.
I don't have it myself cuz Hubby can support me and since this happened in my early 20s I spent most of my working years at home with my children. so not much to base disability on.

Best to you! Mary

has anyone here grown their own gotu kola?

.

Our vetinarian informed me she knew of many instances in humans, told for years they had "fibromyalgia" or chronic fatigue, whose symptoms went away when they were treated for parasites.

Lime disease is one possibility.

A veterinarian may not be the best source of information on what causes human medical complaints.

If parasites are the cause of fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue, how come they haven't been consistently documented in these disorders? And seeing how frequently animals get parasites, how come they don't get chronic fatigue syndrome or fibromyalgia?

I go to localharvest.org under shop, herbs/health, then medicinal teas. I get tea bags in blends for fibromyalgia, glandular, & lymphatic system. I also get Female Toner tea bags from the grocery store. I steep 1 each bags except 2 of female toners on low for 20-30 min then add 2 family size black tea bags to steep & make 1/2 gal tea w/honey and drink 1 glass per day. It took several weeks to see some improvement with female/hormone issues but noticed less pain/stiffness more quickly. I think steeping longer makes it work better than just making a cup steeped a few minutes. Their prices are good for organic herbal teas, but, they also list the herbs they put in each blend for information...

Thank you.
:) I just really want herb info--that sounds helpful to figure it out.
Mary

I, too, have Fibro, and have found a few things that work. The biggest result I have had is with an amino-acid; L-Carnatine. It has basically stopped the "Restless Leg Syndrome" that I was diagnosed with, so I sleep deeper and wake up feeling rested. I also began using a tincture of impatien for the flu-like pain. Just remember, less is more with herbs. Start out with 1-2 drops and wait to see if there are any results. Good luck with your hunt and please let us know if you find something that works for you.

I've seen very good results with Scullcap S. laterifolia (NOT baicalensis) and Passionflower tinctures for fibro. It MAY take a week or two of frequent daily use, but Scullcap especially, works wonders for any type of nerve pain, from fibro and neuropathy to PMS. It inhibits withdrawal symptoms from barbiturates too.

You might try glucosmine as well, since many cases of fibromyalgia seem to morph into arthritis eventually.

"If parasites are the cause of fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue, how come they haven't been consistently documented in these disorders?"

Just where did I say parasites were the cause of fibromyalgia? (You will not be able to find where, because I did not say that). Here is what I said, Eric.

'Our vetinarian informed me she knew of many instances in humans, told for years they had "fibromyalgia" or chronic fatigue, whose symptoms went away when they were treated for parasites.

Lime disease is one possibility.'

"And seeing how frequently animals get parasites, how come they don't get chronic fatigue syndrome or fibromyalgia?"

How would one know, since they don't usually talk about it?

I have no idea why parasitology for humans has become a neglected area in American medicine, Eric. As you claim to be a physician, maybe you could enlighten us.

From what I have read and from what I was told by a pharmacist/herbal doctor, fibromyalgia is caused by a poor diet. Which I am guilty of doing for many years.

enhanced nutrition makes everything better!

"Just where did I say parasites were the cause of fibromyalgia? (You will not be able to find where, because I did not say that)."

And where did my post claim you said that? The relevant quote is:

"A veterinarian may not be the best source of information on what causes human medical complaints."

Bottom line is there's a lack of evidence fibromyalgia or chronic fatigue syndrome are caused by parasites. There is a belief among some that a whole host of diseases and deleterious symptoms are caused by hidden parasites, and a cottage industry has grown up around selling books, devices and supplements to people who believe they are so afflicted. Sometimes (because reputable physicians won't prescribe anti-parasitic drugs to them) they buy potentially dangerous animal drugs.

Various organisms get blamed - from the ever-popular Candida (a part of our natural flora) to the liver fluke (devotees of the late Hulda Clark believed her claim that this fluke was the cause of all cancers, and bought electric "zappers" in an attempt to kill the flukes and thus "zap" away their tumors).

Just as people should consider alternatives before using expensive and potentially hazardous prescription drugs for fibromyalgia, they should also think twice about diving into antiparasitic drugs (which have their risky aspects too) for conditions that have no demonstrated connection to parasites.

*I've never heard of any animal version of CFS or fibromyalgia, but maybe someone here can clarify matters.