kiwinut:

Thanks, that's what I was wanting to know. I'm concerned that any of these might take up more room than I want to devote to one fruit. Do you think there is any chance of fruiting a fuzzy like Hayward in a 15 gal pot? Potting is the best way to keep things under control and I've had good luck with fruit trees and grapes. Also, does the Issai need a male? If so, would one male work for both Issai and Hayward?

The Fruitnut

I love the taste of kiwi and have a couple cuttings coming in a RR swap. I hope they do well in my area. Kiwinut, is the Zespri Gold fruit sold in all areas? I have never seen one and would love to taste it. How did you grow yours from seed? Do you have to use more than one in order for the male and female to pollinate? Do you know where to order seeds? Sorry...so many questions.

plant1, the yellow ones are not hardy in your zone. You can only grow the hardy types there.

I am growing both some grocery store Zespri gold seeds and some actinidia chinensis seeds from Tradewinds seeds. They are not particularly hard to grow from seed, just start them inside around now, and transplant out when they are big enough.

Scott

Here is a link that might be useful: Tradewinds chinensis seeds

If you're planning on getting one of these started, you might want to start trying to germinate now or look for an alternative to growing from seed. I have been trying to germinate these things for about 6 months. I've tried several different things and all I've had to show for it is mold. I'm kind of about to quit caring because these things take too much effort to eat anyway.... haha.

kiwinut,

I read that Issai needs acidic soil (6.1-6.5). Since I have alkaline clay soil here I am thinking that I'll stick to potting it. You also recommend keeping it small, does that mean around 12' or so or much smaller?

This might be helpful for some of us:

Dave's Plant Profile for A. Arguta

Fruitnut, Issai will set parthenocarpic fruit without pollination, but will set bigger and better fruit with pollination. Matua would pollinate it and Hayward. I imagine that 15-gallon pots would be big enough. Elwood may be a better choice than Hayward. It is very precocious and produces huge fruit. It is also low-chill, which could be an issue in your greenhouse. Hayward needs a minimum of about 800 hours.

Plant1, I only see the Zespri Gold fruit here on rare occasion. It would be more likely to be found at gourmet groceries.

jp07, did you stratify the seeds? Kiwi seeds need to be cold stratified before they will germinate. Fuzzy kiwi seeds from a the grocery that have been in cold storage will often germinate immediately or only need a brief cold treatment. Hardy kiwi seeds will need 3 months of moist cold.

Gurgler, I have an Issai in a 5-gallon pot that is kept pruned to 4 ft tall and wide and is more like a shrub than a vine. Blooms profusely every year. It is sensitive to root rot, so good drainage is really important.

Kiwinut, what cultivars from Japan do you have? are they A. chinensis?

Regards

kiwinut: Really only 4 feet tall and wide? How much pruning is required to keep it that size, and what is your pruning method? Are you able to harvest much fruit from a kiwi that size? I could definitely find space for a couple of those...

kiwinut: No I had not tried cold stratification so that is probably my problem. Everything I could find about them on the internet said they would germinate readily, but I actually put the seeds in the fridge a couple of weeks ago as a last resort so I'll see if that works. I am trying to grow two varieties--I am growing (or attempting to grow) the common variety that you buy at the grocery store with the brown skin and hair that requires peeling. I also had some little grape-sized kiwis given to me that you can eat skin and all--does anyone know the scientific or variety names for each of these? That was part of my problem--I didn't know what specific kind of kiwi I was growing.

Backyarder, it will send out some vigorous shoots in spring, which I snip off periodically to keep it small. I probably get 50 fruits on it when I pollinate it well with fuzzy kiwi pollen. I found that if I pollinate some of the flowers, the remaining ones will not set fruit. It only seems to set parthenocarpically if I don't pollinate it at all. Completely unpollinated, it will produce fewer fruits that are much smaller and ripen later and unevenly.

Axier, the ones from Japan were imported by Roger Meyer in the early 90's. These are tetraploid A. chinensis. I have two females and one male. The females were simply called 'Yellow' and 'Red', but I'm pretty sure they are Lushanxiang (aka 79-2 or Yellow Emperor), and Jiangxi 79-1 (aka Koushin or Red Princess). I got the male and Yellow from Scottfsmith, who got them from Roger Meyer, and the Red was from Bob (Kiwibob) Glansman at the Puget Sound Kiwi Co. several years ago.

Check out the link below for some nice photos of fruit from various cultivars.

Here is a link that might be useful: Kiwifruit photos

Those little "grape kiwis" or "baby kiwis" are the hardy kiwi A. arguta. Those will certainly need the 3 month cold treatment. The fuzzy kiwi seeds from the grocery will often germinate easily, but other times not, so I suspect it has to do with how long they were in cold storage. They will probably need much less treatment than the hardy kiwi seeds.

So, based on your comment regarding fruit quality on A. Arguta it is advisable to get a male along with a female.

I was thinking about this A. Arguta male. Or is a fuzzy variety male a better choice?

I would have both on a lattice, but allow the male to grow over my pergola while keeping the female pruned to around 4-5' high. It seems like it would hit all the points that I am shooting for: Attractive cover for my pergola, yummy kiwis, and it won't die if it hits 14 degrees in the winter.

Thanks a bunch for all your advice by the way!

there is a Bob Glanzman in Seattle 'nicknamed' Kiwi Bob who is really into Kiwi vines and their hybrids.

Just kiwifruit (Actinidia deliciosa & its fruiting relatives) and figs for the Puget Sound Region! Both wholesale & retail. "Kiwi" Bob has the second largest collection of Actinidia species in North America, Consulting services available for commercial growers.

HOURS: By appointment only.

DIRECTIONS: Given at time of appointment. Visit west cascade fruit society http://www.wcfs.org. Mail order Kiwifruit Enthusiasts Journal Vol#6, 192 pages, $17.20 total.
http://www.geocities.com/kiwibobg/kiwifruitsalad.html

Thanks kiwinut for the info.
I have sent an email through GW emailing. I don't know if you will receive it, as far as I know, it doesn't always work properly.

Axier, got your email.

Boizeau, The page you posted is very out of date. Kiwibob does not have the Journal available anymore, and he was about to sell his place in Seattle last year when I last talked to him, and was not sure if he would have any place to move his vines and figs. He stopped selling scion wood a few years ago due to increased restrictions on sending out plant material. I think the cuttings had to be inspected for Sudden Oak Death? disease, and it was not worth the hassle.

I do see the Enthusiasts Journals on ebay occasionally.

I have 4 hardy Kiwis one of which bears fruit. I'm growing them on 12 ft heavy T-posts. The big female (Jumbo) has found her way over to a tree and grows up into it. That means part of the fruit is too hard for me to reach. My original male died when transplanted and the new male took several years to catch up and bloom.

The fruit ripens very late in Oct. so sometimes it has frosted and ruined it. While I like the taste, the fruit doesn't agree with me very well so I'm not very diligent picking it. I bought 2 more females before I figured this out but they will take a while to bear- Red and Anansnaya I think.

I really prefer my blueberry bushes, I can never grow enough blueberries... king of the bush fruits IMHO.

I had fuzzy kiwis in San Diego and they got big then died from lack of water at some point, they don't like to ever dry out.

For better or worse, as they say, I ordered four Kiwi from One Green World today. Hayward, Elmwood, 74/49, and a fuzzy male. They are all fuzzies. Elmwood is supposed to reach as large as 10 oz fruit size, couldn't resist, but that probably means inferior taste. 74/49 is about a month earlier than Hayward and Elmwood. All are very vigorous plants.

Now we'll see if I can make them grow, and if that is successful, if I can make them bear without overrunning everything. But that's most of the fun!!

The Fruitnut

Has anyone tried these? I'm curious how hard it is to get them to fruit, and how like kiwi the fruits really are.

Here is a link that might be useful: Hardy Kiwi

Fruitnut, I thought 74/49 was a hardy kiwi. I have two earlier-ripening fuzzies, Saanichton and Exbury. I have so far had no problems with hardiness of fuzzy kiwis or the flowers freezing out, the whole problem has been getting them to ripen on time. So, I am keen to find some earlier-ripening ones. Neither of these two have fruited yet so the results are not yet in (the Exbury is brand new and I hope my 5-year-old Saanichton finally fruits this year).

Jessica, those guys are arguta kiwis. Many people here are growing them, but the improved cultivars and not from seed. The improved cultivars that I have taste very good, sometimes better than the big ones.

Scott

I should probably point out mine will be in a greenhouse with a very long growing season. My hope is that Hayward and Elmwood will ripen at the end of my ~315 day growing season. They have no hope outside in our yoyo climate.

The Fruitnut

Hi all,

I just discovered this thread and I'm trying to be a kiwi grower. I'm in zone 7b near Atlanta and 13 plants in the ground, all Actinidia Arguta of different named varieties. A couple of the smaller ones may have been killed by last night's frost.

I'm finding that although they are supposedly "hardy" in the sense of going totally dormant and survive very cold winters (which we don't have here), they are extremely sensitive to a late spring frost (which we have every year to varying degree). However we have allocated room for 18 plants in my back yard (4 of them males) but some of the spots are still empty but have made a hobby/research project out of it.

What keeps me motivated is we bought a pint clamshell pack from Target about 4 years ago and immediately fell in love with the rich/tart/sweet flavor and the fact that you can just pop them in your mouth like grapes (and they are nutritionally dense). They are a plant with a future if I can just understand how to manage them in this climate.

Good luck to all of you, I'd be interested to hear of your success (and failures).

For example, what do you all cover them with (or do you) when frost theatens?

-Ron

Hi Ron,
Here in southern Ontario the weather has just recently warmed enough that my kiwis are just barely poking out the new growth. Unfortunately our current temps are 8-10C during the day but down to -3C at night. My kiwis are growing on wires stretched between posts 6' high... a fence style rather than t-bar style. I have some plastic I plan to cover them with to form a sort of tent over the vines. I am going to use some old coffee cans I've kept with holes poked through for ventilation and put a small jar candle inside. Obviously taking extreme cautions the plastic is kept away from the heat. The can radiates a lot of heat plus the convection heat created by the candle I think will keep the plants fine at night. I am going to set it up tonight and see how it does.

Tyler,

A warning about the plastic. It traps moisture underneath and there is little or no air circulation, so the effect of freezing temps is intensified.

Seriously, do a couple of searches on using plastic for frost covers. I went by my theory that plastic will seal in all the heat from the ground, but I was wrong: it also seals in the cold wet air that will condense and freeze under the plastic. That's what might have killed (not sure yet) a couple of my smallest ones which might have done better in the open. Maybe your candle will provide enough heat to prevent that I don't know.

I think why porous fabrics work better is they provide a substrate for condensation (frost), while allowing the breeze to evaporate excess moisture near the plant. Maybe try draping a sheet over the wire and use clothes pins to stitch it together.

That candle in a can is brilliant. I'll try that next year. I was thinking of incandescent lights or jugs of hot water also. Good luck!

-Ron (same guy from the propagation forum)

I have also noticed that the hardy kiwi are more sensitive to spring frosts than some of the less hardy species. I also found out the hard way that plastic covers can be bad, and tend to make things worse. We had a freeze yesterday (30 F), which did not cause any damage at all, but the week before, 29 F did do damage, mostly to the A. argutas. The only thing that has worked for me, is to drop the vine off the trellis onto the ground, and cover it with straw. Unfortunately, this can't be done once the vine gets bigger. However, argutas tend to bud out later as they get older and more massive, so things should eventually work out.

The species that has done best for me by far are the yellow kiwis, A. chinensis. They have proven hardy down to near 0 F, whereas the available fuzzy kiwi cultivars (A. deliciosa) don't seem to be hardy for me even in milder years. The chinensis also thrive in the summer heat when the argutas are really suffering, and don't seem to need much water inspite of their enormous leaf surface area. The only drawback is they don't quite ripen in my growing season. They would probably do really well in Atlanta.

~kiwinut

The only reason I thought of using plastic was to trap the candle heat I would generate within the mini greenhouse I was creating. I would never try plastic alone for the reasons you mentioned. I think a candle heater every 3 or 4 feet within the shelter would sufficiently keep it warm. Unfortunately a week of nightly temperatures of 25 or 26F I think requires more than just a insulated blanket of some kind. I'll just open the ends in the morning for daytime ventilation and and close them at night and light the candles. Unfortunately our weather here in Ontario is quite erratic this time of year. We can get almost summer temperatures in march which get things growing then another blast of winter in April. This year we didn't get any warm spells early like we normally do.

Speaking of Atlanta (Stockbridge actually)... we stayed there over march break on our way down to Disney and i was surprised to see the palms growing there outside at the hotel.

Ok Tyler, it sounds like you've done that before... may kiwi gods be with you. Being in Ontario, those must be A.kolomikta right? Also, palm trees are not native here. People do grow lots of Palmetto types and a few medium size but no real big ones. They do add striking variety to the landscape though.

Kiwinut, USDA is re-publishing the hardiness zone map soon and most places are getting warmer (longer growing season?) LOL Maybe some year soon you'll get fruit. Some of the flowers on my 2 big females (and the big male) survived the frost. Maybe this is the year for me!! I have no more room for big plants unfortunately, otherwise I might try to grow the A.chinesis. Ma

Fruitnut.. did you say 315 growing days in SW TX ? wow!! I hope yours do well.

-Ron

Ron: That 315 day season is in a greenhouse with good heater and controller. I'm interested in the materials used for a frost blanket. These floating row covers, the heavier ones, have some pretty impressive claims. I don't see why they'd be better than IR poly. IR poly reflects some radiant heat back into the greenhouse at night. I don't think poly, IR or clear, by itself will make things worse. But you need a heat source to make it a lot warmer. I'd be cautious of burning candles or anything else all night in an enclosed area. At least don't enter until it airs out well.

Explain to me how plastic makes things worse. When moisture condenses and when it freezes both there is heat released. This heat will help maintain temperature not lower it. If the moisture is evaporating that will cool things off...evaporative cooling...works great here summer and winter...if you want to cool something off not heat it up.

But poly by itself is almost no help. Just don't see how it could make anything colder. Heaters by themself mostly heat the sky. But a heater and anything to hold the heat around the plants will help. Just my take. I'm building a large shelter over my cherry orchard.

The Fruitnut

Ron,
No these ones are my argutas. I'm hoping 3 of them will fruit this year so I want to protect this years new growth. Although I do have kolomikta's also. I even have hort16A (seedlings) and delisiosa that appear to have survived in the ground this year (with trunk protection). Last year they died back when I didn't protect the trunks but grew back from the roots which surprised me considering how cold our winters here can get. They are just more for fun since I don't have a long enough season for those anyways.

Well, I have some good news .. All of my young kiwi plants have new growth starting; none died by my foolish act of covering them with plastic for 2 nights (and the cool day in between) during that last light freeze.

About the plastic, putting a heat source underneath them or sealing in a large volume like a small green house is a different thing than what I did and probably would not hurt.

I don't totally understand the physics of condensation, frost, dewpoint and heat transfer due to condensation and evaporation, but I do know I will never seal my plants in under a 33 gal plastic bag again with no heat source or ventilation during a frost. I also noticed that all the leaves touching the bag were the worst hit.

The wild blackberries have yet to flower here so we may yet have another frost in North Central GA. I'm refering to "blackberry winter". It is common to have a frost in late April... that's why we never put out tomatoes out until May 1. So I may get another chance to try a fabric covering with lightbulbs or something.

Ok, going back to the main topic of this thread, it would be great if all the "Kiwi Growers out there" could report in with any successful growing experiences, like which species/varieties plants work where.

Sometimes I feel like I picked the wrong plant to dedicate a big chunk of my yard to since most of what I hear is:
- "Five years now, but no fruit yet."
- "They died back to the ground because of frost but they're still hangin' in there."
- "I bought 3 plants from but they died for some reason."

Does anybody have some Kiwi plants that give them lots of fruit? And how did you do it?

I have three plants going into their 3rd season and I think some flowers may have survived that frost I mentioned in my previous post so I may get fruit this year.
They are Dumbarton Oaks, Ken's Red and a male, "74-46" (all A.arguta).

I also have 10 other plants going into their 2nd season, 3 males and 7 females (all different varieties of a.arguta also).

This is what I would like to harvest each year!!! And these arguta's were grown near Barrie, Ontario (north of Toronto) which I think is zone 5. Getting them through spring frosts is the key.

The problem with our climate here is that we can get 2 or 3 weeks of very warm weather some years in March which gets things growing but then we get another long cold spell again that can go right through April and into May. The general rule of thumb around here is you don't plant your vegetable garden until the May 24th holiday weekend to be safe from frost. Now this year was cold right through and my Kiwi's are just starting to grow now but I still have 3 or 4 weeks ahead that we could get more frost.

Glad to hear yours flowered after 3 years Ron. Hopefully you'll get some fruit this year! I'm hoping mine do this year too. My largest vines are Dumbarton's Oaks, Meader, Anna, Issai and 2 male varieties.

Here is a link that might be useful:

Great picture Tyler. The store name implies that those were grown within 100 miles right? There is probably an advantage to the maritime (or big lake?) influence and why there is so much good fruit growing in NE USA and SE Canada. Apparently Arguta also grows in Maine

Also there must be significant crops of Hardy Kiwi in New Zealand now with that nice marketing site. That moderate semi-tropical coastal climate is ideal for a fruit that does not tolerate spring cold spells. They have much shorter shelf life than the fuzzy ones so we may never see those here. I like the name "kiwiberry" though.

Unfortunately I won't be getting my own kiwiberries this year... All of the three that flowered this year are females, even though I ordered one male. I do have a strong male on the next row that should flower next year. It'll probably turn out to be a good thing since ultimately I'll get MORE fruit. It can only be one of the female varieties that nursery had in their catalog that year.

I am so looking forward to the day (probably at least 2 or 3 summers from now) when we can gather a few friends or family to have a kiwi taste test and post the results. For now I'll have to tell the local Trader Joe's to order some from Holly and Dave in PA.

I've got 5 females and 3 males growing (swallowing) an arbor (and anything foolish enough to stand still for too long). This year it seems all the females (well at least 4 of them) and at least one of the males is covered in buds (if one tenth of the flowers produce I'll have more than I can handle or even want to harvest).

Any hints on easy ways to harvest kiwiberries? lol

btw, mine are 4-6 years old (the Ken's Red is 4 years, the Annas are 6).

Now if the squirrels just miss them....

~Chills (in Michigan, zone 6b)

Harvesting Kiwi Berries? That's easy! When they start to feel a bit soft, pull it off the vine with a little twist and pop it in your mouth. (nyuk nyuk nyuk)

Seriously, are you really going to get some kiwis this year? Hopefully the squirrels won't recognize them or can't get a foothold. They don't seem to bother our grapes for some reason.

Here's my not-so-cheery reply:

I finally cut out my hardy kiwi last spring (08). Anytime the temps hit the 90s (or 100s...its OK!) I fought keeping the leaves on. After 6 years, I had some success with a misting regimen of 10 minutes in the AM and 10 minutes late afternoon. The grape-like fruit withered a bit, nonetheless.

To their credit - my inability to keep them going during the dog-days of summer didn't keep them from coming back. Even irregular water (but if its 100 they drink a lot every day, missing a day is dangerous) produced leaf loss.

Spring frost/late freezes barely slowed them down.

The roots needed a lot of space at my place Not sure if that's a product of my soil and my climate, my gardening skill (or lack thereof) or the plants. They do NOT like wet feet! I had them elevated and that seemed to help.

I can't believe that you'll have a long-term kiwi plant in anything less than a 3- or 4-foot deep and diameter pot. The roots will completely consume the pot.

I've managed to acquire some shade the last couple of years as trees matured. I may try kiwi again but give them a healthy dose of shade.

Also, on the gold kiwi: Naked or Odwalla juice companies (both?) have a "gold superfood" fruit drink that is based on gold kiwi. It is to die for!

Both juices are available at area supermarkets and even Wal-Mart (hiss).

The fruit should begin appearing at gourmet groceries and places like Whole Food Markets very, very soon. I plan on trying to grow from seeds this year. Maybe I can make it work.

I could eat the gold kiwis every day.

Okla-

My local Food Coop (Organic type food place..high quality stuff) has Gold Kiwis right now. They weren't that expensive and are big. I believe they are from New Zealand. Maybe i'll buy some.

I have had my fuzzy kiwi (2 females, 1 male) since about 1994 and I think they started bearing the next year. They have thrived! I live in the Puget Sound, WA (Bellevue). They are in a 2' x 12' strip next to our house and sidewalk to front door. We built a sturdy trellis (West facing)to shade our front door and now it's a beautiful oasis.

I get 200-300 kiwi regularly and every few years I get a bumper crop of about 1000! This year, they seem to be even more abundant so I think it will be an ultra bumper crop year. I think they like being protected by the side of the house and I just add organic compost each year. I water regularly and that's it. I harvest them after the first frost.

Franktan, I bought some at WholeFoods this week.

Zespri is the tradename name. Not available on the open market.

I am amazed that a large pot might work. We'll see.

I think Kate 27 has a good climate for kiwi. I find mine grow andflwer like crazy, but get fried in as ittle as 85 degrees. Some nice, even, mild puget sound weather might be ideal.

2010 Update? How are your backyard kiwis doing this year?
In my part of Georgia, we are lucky with a very early last frost (before the plants started to leaf out). Below is a photo of a few Dumbarton Oaks berries about 3/8" long.

{{gwi:66281}}
(The picture links to my Hardy Kiwi photo gallery which I'm planning on updating as things shape up.)

And now the flowering season is almost over and we have many little kiwi fruits forming. Also, fortunately, I have 3 confirmed male plants among the 13 females and although I did some manual pollinating, it obviously was not necessary. I think three of the females are still too young to produce flowers. Next year for sure!

Ron

Ron I think you must live in the ideal zone for these fruit! My blossoms haven't even opened yet and here you have little berries already lol!. It will be several weeks before I get to your stage. I will have Dumbarton Oaks and for the first time Meader kiwi. My frost hit vines are just now starting to leaf out again.

Hi Kiwinut + other Kiwi enthusiasts, I read your great posts in the kiwi section of garden web and was wondering if you could answer some questions for me, keeping them as simple as possible as I'm a beginning gardener( in the past I have grown in pots: lemon trees from seed, plus some herb and ornamental plants and they have not died, but have no experience with exotics and edibles; I have recently got Pitaya/DragonFruit plants but do not know yet what my success will be with them).

I have tasted the Golden Kiwi(which I believe you call the Yellow Kiwi) at Whole foods and Ralphs, and would like to grow the variety of this plant that will fruit the soonest and most abundantly:
1). Will it grow that way in my growing situation described below?
2). If so, what is the name of the variety I need?
3). Can I grow it/buy a plant now?
4). Where can I buy the most mature/largest plant now? I'm assuming that is the most successful way to grow for quickest fruit and greatest chance at survival, or is a cutting better?
5). Are there stores which sell that I can walk into, or do I need to order online?
6). About how much does it cost?
7). In my situation would you recommend getting/growing 1 plant or 2( for the fruiting and abundance help of pollination...?).
8). I can trade large Pitaya magenta or white fleshed Dragon Fruit cuttings if anyone lives in So Cal and wants to do a trade, do you know of anyone?

Here is my situation: I have an east facing balcony in West Los Angeles which gets direct light from early morning til 10:45am then indirect light after that; I am less than 3 miles from the coast so have coastal moisture. I need to grow in a pot.

You mentioned a Red variety... In the photo link you gave in the forum I saw a green flesh with red flesh at center, I also saw a sort of orange fleshed fruit: Are 1 of these the red flesh, or is the red flesh entirely red? How does the taste compare to the Golden/Yellow and the conventional green? If you do recommend my getting a 2nd plant would you recommend it being a red as much as a green?

Thank you so much!
~Diana(310)936-3150
I will post this also in the forum to make sure it gets to you, and to help anyone from my zone who may also be curious in the answers to these questions, or have answers.

Diana,

My garden is down in Orange County about 15-20mi inland. I grow all my fruit trees and edibles in containers. I grow a few varieties of kiwis as well. From my observation of kiwi growth, I would not recommend it for a balcony with a great deal of shade. The kiwi vines like to spread out and can become very vigorous. You also need a male and female plant, unless you are growing the Issai kiwi.

Due to your limited sun exposure and space, I would recommend focusing primary on berries and figs. If I was growing in your situation, I would get 2-3 varieties of lower vigor/dwarfing figs and keep them well maintained in 5 to 15 gallon pots.

Thank you nullzero for your response. If space is the only issue, --I actually have 2 balconies, 1 large, 1 regular size, and am not going to grow alot of things, and it sounded from kiwinut's response like the the quick growing Issai( is this a yellow/gold flesh kiwi?) wouldn't take too much space? So if I have the space, but less sunlight would it work? I am not interested in growing many things like most people; just a few of the things I want most.

You mentioned berry growing: what berries do you recommend? I would like to grow Thimbleberry and blackberry, but am also open to strawberry if it is more recommendable for partial shade. I would also like to grow an edible Rose. Any comments on these?

I'm not interested in growing a fig.

I currently have 2 Pitya( Dragon Fruit Cactus)[but may only keep 1 of them], and 2 tiny plants which will stay tiny because I constantly harvest them( Bergamot + Aloe Vera).

Thank you! Best wishes, ~Diana(310)936-3150

Diana,

Issai kiwi does seem to be less vigorous then the other kiwi varieties, and has a less spreading form. I use to grow a Issai kiwi, I had it for 6 months until it started to wilt (which led to its death). I think it was the high PH (8.2) water we have down here, that did it in. I try to add vinegar into watering at least a few times a month now.

As for berries I recommend;

Caroline Raspberry
Sunshine Blueberry
Boysenberry

I have some black berries but they don't seem to be as productive as the other berries in containers. Perhaps your cooler coastal climate might be more beneficial for blackberries.

Thankyou nulzero: Again its still the amount of sunlight, not the space I'm worried about, its whether I have enough sunlight with only early morn til 10:45am: Anyone else still out there with advice on this? Also, its still not clear to me: Is the Issai a golden/yellow fleshed fruit, or a green fruit.

Nulzero: How much sun do your boysenberries and rasberries get? I know blackberries can be more sour in the shade, but they seem so hardy-- I've read more responses about rasberries dieing than blackberries. I read a thread about blackberries and boysenberries flourishing in SoCal but not everyone posted exactly where they were in SoCal: http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/calif/msg041458061405.html

Thank you! Best wishes, ~Diana

My raspberries grow in +7 hours of sunlight. They are always sweet and tasty. The blackberries have never really performed well for me. They have always tasted sour or produced poorly in containers. If you are thinking blackberries, I recommend looking at boysenberries. Boysenberries were discovered in Northern California a cross between Raspberry, Blackberry, and Loganberry. They are well adapted to the SoCal climate and yield excellent here. I have seen boysenberries produce berries in locations with only 2 hours or less of direct sunlight (side of a home with a tall fence ).

hmmm... this is interesting news re the boysenberries: I've gotten to the point where I've almost given up on growing any berries but thimbleberries + perhaps some rare exotics here... even though I swear I've seen blackberries produce in the shade-- too much of what I've read is discouraging & I don't want to risk it now( unless 1 ends up in my lap as a gift); but now I'll go research the boysenberries more( love boysenberry pie!), thank you nullzero!

oh i forgot to say: its blueberries now I have been recommended are more shade tolerant( or even loving) that the other berries; except perhaps the thimbleberry which is more shade loving: any comment/experience with those? ... I do like boysenberries better: but I don't want to put the time & $ into growing something & end up with a neglible harvest &/or weak/sickly plant.