I read through this thread and am actually amazed by the amount of misinformation it contains. I'm not sure if that is related to how far we've come in the art and science of bonsai since 2006 and the posts reflected beliefs that were popular 12 years ago, but I'll hope that's why much of the info is so 'off'. *********************************************************************************** Shielah - Apple embryos (seeds) are almost always dormant at the time of harvest. Several weeks at 32- 40*F (0-4*C) is necessary to release the seed from dormancy so it can germinate. To grow normally, apple trees NEED 500-1100 chill units that only accumulate at temps between 33-45*. If they do not go through a normal dormancy and do not get the number of chill units to properly release the tree from it's dormant state. Chill units were formerly called chill hours, but it was discovered that not all temperatures contribute equally to the chilling required to release a plant from dormancy. The second number is the number of chill units that accumulate on a per hour bases at the temp or temp range preceding Degrees Fahrenheit: <34.5* = 0.0 c.u 34.7* – 36.3* = 0.5 c.u. 36.5* – 48.4* = 0.1 c.u 48.6* – 53.8* = 0.5 c.u. 54.5* – 60.6* = 0.0 c.u. 60.8* – 64.4* = -0.5 c.u. >64.4 = -1.0 c.u. Degrees Centigrade <1.4* = 0.0 c.u. 1.5* – 2.4* = 0.5 c.u. 2.5* – 9.1* = 1.0 c.u. 9.2* – 12.1* = 0.5 c.u. 12.5* – 15.9* = 0.0 c.u. 16.0* – 18.0* = -0.5 c.u. >18.0* = -1.0 c.u. A classic symptom of insufficient chilling is delayed bud-break and a lazy spring flush of growth. Also, a tree might have a small tuft of leaves near the tips of the stems and be devoid of leaves for many inches proximal to branch apices (below the growing branch tips). Lower buds will break eventually but full foliation is significantly delayed, production of reproductive parts (blooms fruits/ nuts/ seeds, …..) is reduced, and the tree is weakened. Additionally, not meeting chill requirements contributes to heavy suckering or water shoots emerging from lower parts of the tree, which can be a problem, obviously. Also normal development of next year's buds can be impaired. The age of a tree is measured ontologically as well as chronologically. Cuttings from a tree that is capable of blooming are, at the moment they are taken, already ontologically much older than your tree from seed - even with no roots yet having grown. Trees from seed can take many years (up to 25 for hawthorn) to reach sexual maturity/ bloom / bear fruit, while cuttings from a tree capable of blooming have already attained the sexually mature stage. Your tree, so do as you wish, but the tree would, w/o question, demonstrate its appreciation for a cold winter rest and a nutritional supplementation program that relied heavily on an appropriate fertilizer in lieu of the apple cider thing. That you can manage to keep the tree alive w/o it's cold rest shouldn't be viewed by others as a clarion call to follow the same path. Al

Wonderful discussion. I'm not as obsessive with this apple tree growing experiment(yet,)as I am with other things that I grow. Like as was mentioned, my son and I are just having fun planting something in winter and seeing what happens. Two Empire seeds germinated in the frig, and we planted them together in a 4" pot of Jiffy mix, and have them on a heating pad. If a couple more seeds germinate we might do the same thing with them also. We don't have a lot of room, and in all likelihood won't be living here 10 years from now. Bottom line.....we're just having fun. Hopefully we'll get something that we can plant outside, and like you say, point at it and say, "remember when...." That would be fun! Now if you want to talk serious, just get me talking about my tomatoes and blueberries.

Justin, Try it. You might just get a great new apple. I have planted apple, pear, and peach seeds. Peach seeds or pits, I did plant years ago and got real nice peaches from the trees. Pears and apples I planted them 2 yrs ago, and the trees are still too young to bear fruit--I hope someday they will bear some. Of course, I planted the seeds the lazy--or easy--way. Sometime in the winter (I live in zone 5. Used seeds from fruit I had just bought from a supermarket.) I planted the seeds in the ground, covered them with dirt--the small seeds not too deep, the peach pits deeper. In the spring they sprouted. Just make sure you mark the spot where you plant your seeds; this way, you wont pull them out as weeds--something I often do. I'm sure you are doing this for fun, so enjoy and learn. Hey, After 5 summers, I just got my first flowers from oriental lilies that I started from seed...Most of them look just like their parents...2 look different, but I have seen the same type of flowers in catalogs. Good luck, but most important: Happy Gardening!!!

They should still be fine if they were kept room temperature and weren't exposed to the sun too much. As for germinating them, I'm no expert, but I think they will need a period of cold temperatures to break the dormant period. I believe this is called stratification. You can either plant them outside over winter and they will come up in the spring, or put them in a fridge for about 4 weeks then plant them. I don't know how long they take to germinate as I have never tried to grow any but I have heard it can be as little as a day, although that is probably rare. Hope this helps.