6 Random Raspberry/blackberry questions!

13 years ago

So I've spent quite a while scouring google and watching youtube video's of people pruning raspberries and blackberries. I think I have a really good handle but still have some questions. If anyone could answer partial/some of these questions I'd really appreciate it. I know my questions are pretty random so if you have feed back for only 1 question please don't hesitate to only address that 1 question in this post :)

1. Blackberries: They recommend cutting 4" off the tip of a Primocane when they reach 3 feet tall to encourage lateral shoot growth. If I do this, will the primocane still continue to grow taller. I'd like to have the top of my V trellis be at 5 feet and attach the primocane to it at 5 feet.

2. Everbearing raspberries: If i desire the fall fruit from Primocanes, do I still cut 4" off the Primocane tips when they reach 3 feet tall in the summer as I would with Blackberries to encourage lateral shoot growth? Or would this cut off something on the tip that turns into flowers/fruit in the fall.

3. Blackberry/Raspberry: When do you cut off your post fruited floricanes? Most university sites generally say during the dormant season but not specifically in beginning or end. Some say to cut them off right away in late summer so that the Primocanes can get good sunlight. A Maine edu extension said to keep the floricanes until late winter/early spring because as the old canes are dying, they are sending nutrients and carbohydrates down to the root system. When do you guys cut off spent floricanes?

4. Raspberries: I live in Austin where summer time gets to 95-100 and stays that temperature until nightfall it seems. Would it be best in the midst of summer to erect a screen above the plants and slightly to the side so that the sun would go through it for half of the day? I understand raspberries are full sun plants but at the same time, can they withstand Central Texas summers without shade? Texas A&M says they will not do well here.

5. I'm planning on doing a 30' row going NE to SW. My house will block some of the sunlight in the SW part of the row. NE end will receive sun from 10 hours of direct sunlight. SW end will receive 6 hours of direct sunlight. I plan on doing Red Raspberries(heritage, boyne, caroline, prelude), Yellow Raspberries (anne), and Black berries(brazos, apache, triple crown). What order should I plant these, starting from most sun. I'm thinking Red raspberries to yellow to black berries with triple crown being at the end.

6. Someone in another forum had talked about putting metal sheeting/roof flashing in the ground. I'd like to put them between my raspberry varieties so that they don't grow into each other and I wouldn't know what variety I'm eating. Is this safe? Wouldn't the metal rust in the ground and leach bad stuff into the plant through the roots?

Comments (9)

lsoh
13 years ago
I am not an expert, so take this for what it's worth.

I planted red raspberries in spring of 2009. I dug down and corraled my raspberry bed with 20" roof flashing. The plants have spread densely within the bed, but they have not yet managed to tunnel outside of the flashing.

Digging down 20" wasn't fun, but I used the opportunity to ammend the soil within the raspberry bed.

Roof flashing is usually either Aluminum of Galvanized Steel. I wouldn't expect a rust problem with those materials. So far I don't see any rust on the very top of the flashing that is exposed on my bed.

Sorry, I can't comment on any potential for leaching.
glenn_russell
13 years ago
Hi nguyena1-
Good questions!
1.) I've found there really is no stopping blackberries. You can tip them at 3' to encourage lateral growing, but they're still going to go up and up. The top of my trellis is about 8', and I'll probably top them 4 times throughout the season... they're that vigorous. (Though perhaps not quite as much in their first year.)
2.) With the everbearing raspberries... Do not tip them. Just let them grow. You can prune them back at the very end of the fall/early winter when their tops die. (or just do that in the spring).
3.) When you prune off the dead tops is really up to you. You can do it in the beginning or end of the dormant season. For me, I wait until early spring because at that point youÃ¢ÂÂll see a nice dividing line between the green lower part which is still alive, and the dead top (so I know IÃ¢ÂÂm not cutting off too much, or leaving some dead cane). DonÃ¢ÂÂt forget, youÃ¢ÂÂll also need to prune out the dead 2nd year (floricanes) after the give their fruit on the lower part of the cane in late summer.
4.) As I understand it, youÃ¢ÂÂre right on the edge of where of the climate where raspberries can grow. IÃ¢ÂÂve read that the Ã¢ÂÂBabaÃ¢ÂÂ variety would probably be your best bet for someone in your situation. But, since I donÃ¢ÂÂt live there, or grow that variety, take my advice with a grain of salt. Others here may be able to give advice on the shade. I do know, even around here in 6b RI, that I do get some raspberry druplet disorder which is caused by excessive sun/UV, etc.
5.) YouÃ¢ÂÂve got some good varieties there, but IÃ¢ÂÂm still worried about your climate when it comes to the raspberries. Might you want to start with some test varieties first before you jump all-in? Having grown Heritage, Caroline, and Prelude, I would toss the Heritage and put in Baba as mentioned above. I havenÃ¢ÂÂt grown Boyne, but according to my Nourse chart, it (and the Caroline unfortunately) might be slightly less tolerant of the heat? You might want to put Anne on the end as for me it doesnÃ¢ÂÂt grow very tall/vigorouslyÃ¢ÂÂ¦ but, it probably has the biggest and best tasting raspberries that I grow.
6.) Yes, containment is extremely important. Without it, all the varieties will grow together and you wonÃ¢ÂÂt be able to tell where one starts and the next one ends. That may not sound too bad, but if you have one variety that does well, and another one that does poorly, you wonÃ¢ÂÂt be able to remove the slacker. For me, I get containment by mowing around all my patches. In one area, I have a barrier that goes down 10Ã¢ÂÂ, and they havenÃ¢ÂÂt gone under that yet. But, others have talked about raspberries tunneling down 15Ã¢ÂÂ or even more.
For more on the varieties I grow, you can see my Ã¢ÂÂMy PageÃ¢ÂÂ link.
Hope this helps!
-Glenn

Here is a link that might be useful: Nourse Farms raspberry chart
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I won't attempt to answer all of your questions. These types of fruit are collectively refered to as brambles. Brambles are much easier to grow in the ground than in pots, and are much more productive that way. If they are growing in the ground it should be relatively easy to take some to transplant, or propagate them when it comes time to move. Especially so if you have a time-table for the move. Blackberries and raspberries have two basic types. Primocane (sometimes called fall or everbearing) and floricane types. Primocane types grow the fruit on canes the same year that those canes emerge from the ground. If allowed to overwinter, they can bear a second, smaller crop the next year. Floricane types don't fruit until the year after they emerge from the ground (they have to experience one winter before they fruit). Nearly all blackberries and black raspberries (certainly all thornless ones) are floricane varieties. Rasberries are common in both types, although I don't know which types the thornless ones come in. Raspberry "thorns" are generally more of a fuzz and are not dangerous. Blackberries and black raspberries can be vicious blood-drawers. Raspberries and blackberries have a very different taste and character. Everyone has their preference. How would you answer a question "Does apple taste better than pear?" The blackberries seem to have much greater variation in flavor amongst varieties than do raspberries. I grow 4 varieties of primocane red raspberry, 1 variety of black raspberry, and 5 varieties of blackberries (all thornless). It would be hard for me to pick one type if I had to. If I had to lose one it would probably be the black raspberries because of the thorns. If I had to pick one for you, from what you described, I would probably go with blackberries planted in the ground. They will be the most productive, are easier to keep from spreading, and can be thornless. Understand that you won't get any fruit the year you plant them and probably not much the following year either. The reason fresh berries are so expensive is because they are perishable, fragile, and labor-intensive to pick. That makes them great candidates for growing at home.
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krussow
13 years ago
I am going to plant 30 thornless blackberry plants in about 30 days.. any suggestions on what to do their first year?

i am going to till the rows ( 10 plants per row 3 ft apart) then Till in compost and rabbit manure.. and put a layer of garden fabric down then mulch on top of it to keep out weeds.

i am also going to do a row of Raspberries.

for the trellises i planned on end posts and then 10 guage wire at 2,4, and 6 ft spacings.

i would like to put a soaker hose down along the rows..

how often should i water and how much?
glenn_russell
13 years ago
Hi Krussow-
What variety of thornless blackberries are you going to plant? 3 feet apart... is that 3 feet between plants? or between rows? To me, either way that sounds like too little space. I have my Chester's, Triple Crowns, and Doyles at least 6 feet apart. Of course, the world will not end if you plant them that close... but I don't think it's typical.

My blackberries are pretty tolerant of water... Previously, they got watered whenever my little lawn traveling tractor sprinkler happened by them. Last year, I put in a lawn irrigation system, so they got a lot more water.... They were fine with that too. I think people (like me) often overwater their brambles and they'd the plants would be happier with less. Brambles are like weeds and mine seem happy with whatever water I do or don't give them. But, in their first year, before the roots are established, you should probably baby them a little.

Brambles do like organic material in the soil, but many will warn that if you augment the soil you risk forming a bowl in the earth where water will collect and kill your plants. People on this forum often recommend augment by adding material to the top. That said, I augmented much of my bramble soil before I knew any better, and mine have been fine. But, I also do have a hard-pan type situation where the water collection would be more likely.

Can you please tell us where you are located? The advice you get will be much more valid if we know that.

If you look at my attached "My Page", you can get an idea of what I do for trellises.

All the best,
-Glenn
krussow
13 years ago
i was planning on Apache, Ouchaita, and Navaho. Also I was planning on planting, Austin Dewberries, and Boyne and Cumberland Raspberries..

From what i have read on the growers website and a few others they suggested 3 ft apart and 6-8 ft between rows. and suggested watering every 7-10 days..

my soil Drains very well and i planned on mulching all around the plants..OR putting compost on topt of the ground and mulching on top of that..

I am in NE oklahoma around Grove... Any advice you have would be GREAT!!! i would rather here from you and others than plant them too close have have a failure
Anthony Nguyen
Original Author
13 years ago
lsoh: Yea it was you that I had read in another forum that suggested the 20" galvanized sheets. I dunno about digging 2 feet deep by 2 feet wide for 30 feet. Haha, thats a LOT of work. I will definitely take your advice though and put the galvanized sheets in between the plants in the row, but along the length of the row, that's a lot of work without machinery.

Glenn, great advice!
What kind of material do you use as a barrier?
Addressing item number 3, "When you prune off the dead tops... For me, I wait until early spring because at that point youÃ¢ÂÂll see a nice dividing line between the green lower part which is still alive, and the dead top." Are you talking about clipping everbearing RBs primocanes when they make berries early in the season? Early spring? And also, you cut your primocanes pretty much right after they fruit in late summer. Any particular reason you do it at that time vs late winter?

Krussow: I just saw on the news couple days ago that somewhere in NE Oklahoma had the lowest low ever on record for state of Oklahoma. -25 or something. Good thing you didn't start your plantings last weekend.
krussow
13 years ago
nguyenal

Oh my gost... i am telling you! we had 18in of snow at our house then another 8, 4 days later and THEN 24 inches 3 days after that!!

and that -25 record that you heard about was at our house! my grandmother said that the worst winter that she could remeber was in '68... and then i was not that cold!

BUT thankfully we are looking at 60 tomorrow!! and the rest of the month!!

Happy Spring. Home that wreched groundhog was right for us! LOL
larry_gene
13 years ago
Plant triple crown at the least sun end of the row, their fruits are susceptible to UV damage.

The top few inches of any blackberry primocane is very tender and should not be attached to anything or it could break and become detached from the trellis. This means that the primocane should be about six feet tall when attached to a 5-foot trellis, leaving the upper one foot free. Then the very tip can be removed.

Some blackberry varieties put out nearly right-angle laterals and some put out sharply-angled laterals. If a triple crown cane is allowed to go six feet, some laterals may want arch even higher. So you may want to top this variety at 3 or 4 feet, and eventually attach the laterals to the trellis top.

Once laterals are several feet long, they can be routed to any place on the trellis you want, they are very flexible. Do not stress them right at the primocane, start your bend a couple of feet away.

I would get the post-fruited canes out of there after the harvest season and before winter. When spring rolls around you do not want to be working around the base of the canes and possibly damaging the tender, newly-sprouting primocanes.

Many of the scientific studies are geared towards commercial acreage and trying to get the last extra 5% out of the crop. The home gardener usually has more berries than he knows what to do with, regardless of pruning timing.

After several years you will become familiar with the branching habits of your varieties and can form your own conclusions on how to prune and train to them your trellis.
georgeb_noobgarden
13 years ago
1/2 I don't know sorry
3. During the dormant season of course.
4. The only raspberries that will do good in your climate (Just like mine) bababerries and dorman red raspberry. You can plant alot of blackberries!
5. Red Raspberries Don't really do that good unless its the dorman or baba berries. Blackberries will do better in your climate!

6 Random Raspberry/blackberry questions!

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6 Random Raspberry/blackberry questions!

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