Sorry I can't help you, BrendaSue, but I sure do hope your girls will be all right. I'm keeping my fingers - and toes - crossed.

Anytime a horse gets into a lot of grain--whatever kind of grain it is--it can be a big problem. They do sound like they're acting a little bit colicky. Not so bad that they are in severe pain (rolling, pawing, etc), but it does sound like they have some belly ache by the fact that they won't eat their hay. In my opinion, you should withold their grain ration for a few days--they certainly can live without it, and if they have grain overload from the chicken feed, they shouldn't be getting any extra sugars from additional grains.

You need to go out and feel their feet. If their hooves feel warm, or if you can feel a digital pulse (a pulse in their fetlock, on the back side above the heel), then they are probably trying to founder on you. That is, in my opinion, a definite reason to call the vet. If they founder, you risk never being able to ride them again, and your farrier bills will be unbelievable. If you have any, you could give them each 2 grams of bute (phenylbutazone) to prevent/treat founder. If you think they are foundering, you should confine them to a stall or paddock if possible, keep them as quiet as possible, if it is a stall, put down a lot of straw to cushion their feet, and you can soak their feet in ice water for 15 minute intervals every hour. If you suspect they may be foundering, and you can't get a vet, you should call your blacksmith--they should be able to help you.

If they do start acting more colicky, it can help to walk them. But don't walk them if they are showing signs of founder. Sometimes it can help a colicky horse to load it on the trailer and take it on a drive--it makes them poop and can cause their gut to get stuff moving along. Again, don't do this if you suspect founder. It's hard to say if they would be showing symptoms by now, especially since you don't know what time they got into the grain. If they do start showing signs of painful colic, I would call the vet. It may be expensive, but it's better than watching a horse suffer and maybe die from something that might have been treatable.

On that note, it's probably a good idea to ask your vet for a couple of doses of Banamine paste. It's a good medicine for treating the symptoms of colic or other pain, and a lot of colics resolve without surgery/veterinary treatment, but the Banamine can help with the pain so the horse can relax in the meantime.

I hope that your horses are okay. If you have any other questions, you can e-mail me. I'm not a vet, but I work with horses and have dealt with several cases of founder. Good luck.

Went down to check on the horses. The 2 yr old was laying down in the pasture again, the yearling was up & came when I called from the stall. 2 year old did get up and come to me,seemed a bit ornery though (ears back at her sister several times). Definately "off".

The front hooves are warm, not hot. I didn't feel a pulse at the fetlock, but my son thinks he did, he pressed into the skin hard to get it though. I just held it & with fingertips ran them around that part of the leg & didn't feel anything. We'll re-check it next trip down.

We went to the ditch for a re-look and the horses did follow, like they normally do. We couldn't determine anything more than earlier at the ditch.

We opened another bale of hay (hay is often varying courseness) and gave them some of a different batch. They were eating it somewhat-more than earlier, but not as normal.

They don't seem any worse. Pawed at the new hay but not out of the ordinary. Both releived themselves but no manure. Fresh hay down in the stall and will check for manure the next visit. A trailer ride is not an option right now.

Thank you for your input & what to look for. We're taking turns on watch tonight & your e-mail is posted in the barn. I'll update again soon.

BrendaSue

HI
Good luck with your horses..I would be calling the vet for answers..ASAp,,If they are still laying down..you have a problem..I have raised horses for many years..and currently own 8..3 Arabians..
It is not normal for a horse to refuse hay..esp since you say they normally eat it fast..Thats a good sign of a problem..colic.. young ones do lay down more than older horses..but..not eating and laying down..points to a problem..NOt to scare you..but colic is serious and err on the side of caution..Are you checking them every hour or half hour? If they get to frantic rolling and twist an intestine..surgery is very expensive..not to mention hard on the horse..
Hopefully they did not eat the chicken feed mix..but..if both are sick at same time..sounds like it..There can be molds as well as just the overeating..You really need a vets advice..NOt to scare you..but certainly if its colic..it can be a life threatening and certainly painful experience.. Banamine is a great drug as was suggested..but ..also vets usually use a stomach tube and administer mineral oil to help their digestive system pass things..as well as administering the banamine..
Good luck..and do not want to scare you..but keep a very close eye on them..and if they dont get up..and eat.. CALL the Vet...Make sure they are drinking water too..so they dont dehydrate..
Hope I was of some help...but your best help will be your vet..Colic is not a wait and see situation..
Best of luck..and please update us on them..
Casey

How did things go last night? I don't envy you having to stray up with the girls and keeping them walking alternating with cooling their feet down (this is wehat I would have done in this situation and I have been in this kind of situation many times in my horse career)

Thank you all for your help! We walked last night & we walked on and off a couple hours total maybe. They follow each other (sisters) so that was a help with people-power. It sure beat sitting there. Had no benamine but will be getting it. These girls sure did scare me. This morning at 5 they seem to be acting better. Had a hard time locking them in-will have to resolve that issue this weekend.

They are up and moving around ok when I left for work at 6:30. boy am I tired. They are interested in the hay but it is still there. Eating some hay at least. The bin is about gone, but I added extra to it twice last night. They never started rolling or pawing extensively at which point I would have called the vet immediately. Seemed almost borderline in my mind but IÂve never dealt with colic before. Appears to have been perhaps bellyaches? They were looking slightly at their bellies once in a while.

First light we inspected the feed. ItÂs gone. Could have been the horses, ducks or geese or perhaps all three who ate it. CouldnÂt figure out by any tracks. IÂm thinking that maybe the ducks/geese were eating & the horses maybe chased them away. I donÂt know.

Big breath of releif here. IÂm thinking they would have went down by now if they were going to. ItÂs 14 hours after I noticed the problem. There is noone to check them again until this afternoon as my sons have school. TheyÂll call me at 3ish if they notice any problems.

Thank you for being there for me. Will give an update next chance I have.

BrendaSue
p.s. I'd like to take their temp-do you do horses through the rectum w/a regular thermometer? Never did this before but it'd make me feel better & perhaps key me in to the start of a problem. If I need a special thermometer where can I get one online?

If a horse gets into grain in excess dont give him lots of water. just a sip. water is bad for them at that point. walk him lots. load him on a trailer,I wouldnt lock them in a stall, let them keep moving. takes more then one time in the grain bag to get foundered, dont worry. but it has been proven to seem to onset cushings disease, but not in young horses. look that one up, you will get a better understanding of how a horses body metabolises food.
also look up horses temperatures as you do that under the chin.
Everything will be ok:))

Marie

The girls seem to be back to normal this evening. They are moving about well & noone is lying down! Checked their feet & there's no change, no apparent pain either. Wish I could explain to them just exactly why they can't have their grain this evening. They just can't comprehend why. I feel a bit guilty about that but it's for the best. I'll be watching them carefully over the next few days for any other signs of illness just in case.

I just wanted to properly thank all of you for your suggestions and kind words of encouragment. These girls mean a whole bunch to me as do all of my animals. They are an extention of my family. They are more like a dog than horses. We lost my 30 year old a fews years back-I cried for weeks. I'm looking forward to at least 30 years with these girls. May sound corny to some but that is how I feel. I can't thank all of you enough.

BrendaSue

It's not corny at all, BrendaSue. I'm just glad they are okay. (Happy dance!)

Glad this worked out OK! Any idea where the stuff they got into came from?

We used to have to periodically walk colicky horses (we had two that were prone to sand colic)...I remember feeding them molasses oats mixed with Metamucil and mineral oil, them walking them...and more oats, then walking...and more oats, then walking...until they had pooped enough times to OK. It took hours. No fun, I feel for ya.

Velvet ~:>

BrendaSue,

I'm glad to hear that things seem to be okay. To answer your question, you do not need a special thermometer to check their temp. Just a regular thermometer--either digital or the old fashioned mercury kind is fine. If you use a mercury thermometer, it is wise to attach a 6 inch string to the end with the hot glue gun, and attach a clothespin to the string. To check their temp, lubricate the thermometer (I spit on it, but you can use KY Jelly or vaseline or mineral oil if you prefer), then insert it into the horse's rectum. If using the mercury thermometer, insert it until there's only about 1.5 inches sticking out, then clip the clothespin to the horse's tail and wait 3 minutes, remove, and read. If using digital thermometer, insert it about 2 inches into the rectum, and you have to stand back there and hold it until it beeps the ready signal. Don't use the mercury thermometer unless you have the string attached--they have been known to "disappear" into the horse's rectum--NOT a good thing! Normal temp for an adult horse is 98-100. I would consider 101 to be a mild fever in an adult, and 102 or above is a fever for sure. In a yearling, 101 would be pretty normal, and anything above 102 would be a fever. In a foal, normal is 100-102, and above 103 would be a fever. Horses are like people, and some horses "run hot" all the time, so if you really want to be in tune with your horses, check their temps several times on different occasions to get a baseline normal. If you want to check their pulse, you can feel in the groove under their jaw--this can be a bit tricky and it's good if you can get somebody to show you how. Average pulse for an adult is 30-40 beats per minute, but for a younger horse, it is higher (yearling is 50-60).

To answer another comment you made, bellyache is the same as colic (just like a baby). Colic can be caused by gas, constipation, a twist in the gut, diarrhea, spasmodic colon, etc. And just like a baby, a horse can't tell you where or why it hurts, and that's what makes it so complicated.

To be honest, in my opinion, I would have worried more about founder than colic with this episode. Somebody commented that it takes more than one time in the grain bag to get foundered, and I disagree with that statement (not trying to start a fight here, I just disagree). You stated that their hooves were warm, and that is a symptom that a horse is trying to founder. Horses' hooves are usually cool to slightly warm, even in the summer they stay pretty cool. It's a good idea once things get back to normal to go feel their hooves and see what normal feels like (again, some horses' hooves are normally warmer than others). If I were you, I'd continue to keep an eye out for signs of founder. If you see them standing with their front feet "parked out" in front of them--stretching them out so their feet are more under their head than under their shoulder--that is a sign that they are in pain from founder. You can look up founder (or laminitis as it is also called) on Google and see the causes and symptoms.

Glad to hear that things sound okay. I heard a quote once that said "Horses spend 99% of their time trying to kill themselves, and we spend 99% of our time trying to prevent them from succeeding." Keep us posted!

Here's a link about laminitis (founder).

Broodyjen is passing on some very good advice. It always amazed me just how many horse owners (even some pros) didn't know how to take thier horse's temperature. It is absolutely a must. I would add a long string to any kind of thermometer though. A whole lot of things can disappear up a butt that size. Especially since as soon as you stick something up there they are going to clamp down their tail no matter how well mannered they are.

I would also wonder who had the nerve to dispose of poultry feed in a horse pasture. Founder is the first thing to look for in a horse that's got into poultry feed.

I really need to get up to speed on some of this basic care stuff. I ought to know how to check this stuff by now. There's just never been a necessary need. I've never had such a scare so I didn't really think how lax I've been until I panicked the other night. You can bet I'm checking out & printing the links & e-mails, and I also signed up on a group for horse talk. Started a 3-ring binder, too.

My son disposed of the chicken feed mixture in the pasture. They were cleaning out the barns/workroom of garbage-car parts, wood, wire, the collection of valuable junk we seem to accumulate. Compostable stuff went in the barrel-damp broken bag of chicken feed, dusty shavings, sawdust, ect. He feels terrible & I feel bad I reprimanded him harshly I was so upset. He knows better-our stored grain is locked behind doors, in addition to being in bins-it just didn't click for him & he thought it was helping my new fettish-composting (he didn't put it in the bin though, which is a blessing as it would have been easier for them to get over the top of the pallets). Both my older sons helped with the girls that night they felt so bad. It's water under the bridge now but could have had a horrible ending.

BroodyJen-I was worried about both with no clue what to do. I was checking the hooves often ready to call the vet -my hesitancy was because of our difference of opinion & not knowing what was normal for our horses.

I appreciate everybodies help!

BrendaSue

First of all my last thought would be the internet! I would do what ever it takes to get My vet out first!! After things are stable, then Question yourself.So many people who own horses will put them in a situation of trouble or unkind care.