Guns are bad, m'kay?

Always.

I was a vegetarian for seven years and would still be if it weren't for the fact that I have IBS and cannot digest beans or soy or cheese.

I have no problems with other people killing animals, and in many ways it is a mercy. I have bunnies in my yard, and I planted a bed of spinach well away from my garden, and my garden is covered in garlic/cyannepeper/cat pee bunny repellent. It mostly keeps them away, but I still get the occasional plant nibbled on.

I am a huge wimp.

Thing is, by encouraging an overpopulation of bunnies, I am actually doing a disservice to them. Death by shotgun, no matter how rough it looks, is actually a lot more merciful than a death by predator or starvation. Bunnies reproduce a lot because cute tiny fuzzy baby bunnies are supposed to die. It's cruel, but it's how things are supposed to be.

It's good that you feel a little bad, because it means you are capable of empathy. It's also good for the bunny to spare it a more painful death, and that you've overcome your pangs.

As for why they come in? Well my pet bunnies really liked baby plants best. The baby plants are nice and tender and tasty.

Hopefully you are a stronger person than me. *smiles* If I had to kill my own food, I'd do it, but I'd probably throw most of it up. The funny part is that a great deal my family farms cattle.

Good for you balsam girl way to go!!!!!!!!!!!!!

city tomato, Bad people with guns, now that's bad.

Dale

Nearly every year since I began large-scale gardening, I've had at least one bunny nest in the garden. It makes sense; the fencing, and the dense growth, provide cover. They can get in easily - even through my electric fence - while their predators have a tougher time. It's just the safest place to raise their brood.

In the beginning, the bunnies were little more than an annoyance. There is a lot of clover in my walkways & between rows; I allow it to grow to increase soil fertility. The rabbits prefer the clover to most of the veggies. They will literally mow it, while only nibbling on everything else. For most gardeners, the clover may be all that is necessary to limit damage to veggies. The rabbits & I co-existed peacefully...

But that was before I began growing & collecting soybeans. There appears to be nothing that a rabbit would rather eat... they will hop past everything else, to eat soybeans in the center of the garden. If I were to let them, they would destroy every last plant, devouring the leaves until only stems remained.

For my smaller gardens, I was able to wrap the boundary with rabbit fencing... no easy task, since there must be no gap anywhere, or they will find a way in. Anyone who has installed rabbit fence knows what I am talking about; it's very labor-intensive. For my larger plot, where I use electric fencing, this was just not practical. Unfortunately, a high-powered air rifle proved to be the only solution.

Attempts at live trapping didn't catch a one. Sprays & scents proved to be ineffective. I feel that most of the evidence of their success is anecdotal... "I used it, and got no damage, so it works". They do not work when an animal has had a taste of something they like, and are determined to get more.

I am not a vegetarian, but I love wildlife, and don't take extermination lightly. Killing was, and should be, the last resort. My preservation work with soybeans was too important to risk total loss of what was often very limited seed.

Maybe you could work on bettering your fence.

Amazingly, I've never noticed any rabbit damage in either of my two gardens over ten years, and there are lots of rabbits everywhere in this region. Although it's quite possible that some of what I attribute to deer is actually done by rabbits.....

balsam girl,

I agree with (most of) the above. Sometimes we have to take charge of our neighborhoods when wildlife gets to be a problem. Re-read gardenkitteh's post...very, very well said.

I had qualms, too. That was before our neighborhood was invaded by hordes of gray squirrels in '05. After they destroyed many bird feeders (mine and neighbors), dug up $$$$ worth of flower gardens, I declared war in the spring of '06. Since then, 115 of these "cute" tree rats have been dispatched (yes, I keep a log). Assuming 50% female, do the math. Two litters per year, 3 per litter, mating at 9 months of age....how many "new" squirrels have I eliminated with my pellet rifle in two years? (this has been in my back yard exclusively..no hazard or intrusion to neighbors) Then do the math on the reproductive rate of rabbits! ~smile~

TO: city tomato; I HAVE seen a few "bad guns". Those had been abused. Now, bad people? That's an entirely different story! I'd seriously encourage you to learn the difference.

Cordially offered balsam girl,
Hal in PA

PLEASE don't close your eyes when you're firing a gun!

Hal,

You're not considering that for each squirrel you kill, you've created an opening for a new squirrel to fill. Others will move in from more crowded areas and more food will be available for the ones you didn't kill, which will increase the rate of reproduction. In effect, you are bailing out a boat that has a huge hole in it. Except, of course, that it's much bloodier.

1) Eat what you kill

2) Put its head on a pike as a warning to the others

I never meant to imply that guns are bad. But (from bunny's viewpoint) in the hands of people guns do bad things. The gun is no different from any other tool, only that it's meant to kill and does its job well. That's why I went and got it.

I work on my fence every year. But it's big and gaps develop. Last year a bear climbed over it in one place. This spring I found a couple broken wires that I only noticed after bunny got inside and I inspected it very closely on my hands and knees. There were also small gaps under the gate that I fixed. When you have so many hungry critters around it's a struggle every year and you only know your fence isn't working after they get in.

You wait all winter, start plants by seed, nurse them along, and then set them outside with high hopes. You have a lot more invested in them than bunnies that make the mistake of getting inside the fence. (I like the theory they come inside to escape larger predators. That makes sense). Once they get inside, however, you have to decide and decide fast what to do. A couple nights of feeding and all your hard work is gone -- nip, nip, nip!

I've learned the hard way. If they get inside and I see them I will shoot them on sight. But I won't close my eyes next time. I've shot or trapped woodchucks too. And don't get me started on how the deer are wrecking the woods by eating every small tree and flower as high as they can reach.

A shotgun might be a bit overkill, a BB/Pellet gun would do the trick. I had a groundhog burrowing under my leantoo last summer (ready to nest no doubt) and I cornered it with a BB gun, held directly over it's skull one shot killed it instantly. Today's pump BB/pellet guns are much more powerful than they used to be. Mine can fire both and the pellet easily penetrated the skull.

vgkg

I also have my dad's old .22 rifle, but I don't trust my marksmanship good enough because the sights get too blurry for a sure hit. This 20 gauge with light loads isn't really overkill and is very effective up to and including woodchucks, altho I did blast a chunk out of my poppies....

corin99;

perhaps a Trap Neuter release program for squirrels?

vgkg

I also have my dad's old .22 rifle, but I don't trust my marksmanship good enough because the sights get too blurry for a sure hit. This 20 gauge with light loads isn't really overkill and is very effective up to and including woodchucks, altho I did blast a chunk out of my poppies....

I have no clue how that message got posted twice....

Furthermore, I find a shotgun to be surefire and quick. If you miss or wound a critter with a .22 or BB gun then you have a frightened animal running trying to get away and then you have to hunt it down with it fully aware of what you are trying to do to it and that feels too much like murder for me. No, better to kill them unawares and FAST and in a day or two you get over it. If only little bunny wasn't so cute!

I don't think anyone wants to know what I think about this, so I will just keep on walking. Vique.

balsam girl,

I'm impressed. I can tell that you know what you're doing, and you know why. As I mentioned earlier, sometimes we must intervene to maintain control over things that matter to us when critters would do us in otherwise.

corin99: You obviously understand squirrels, or you've done your homework prior to posting, i.e. your comment about vacancy and reproduction. That said, I totally reject your further premise. This "boat" is still afloat because I've eliminated the population explosion, and competition has been drastically reduced. As a consequence, the destruction of property has ceased. Oh, just one more thing. They can't possibly reproduce faster than I can pick 'em off...squirrel libido be damned! ~smile~

balsam girl...ya' done good!

Hal

Well, given a choice, it's a lot more effective to prevent them from doing damage than to have to kill them. Because if killing them is the solution, it's one that never ends. I built wire cages to keep them out of my greens and installed a fence and a motion activated sprinkler for the rest of the garden. Works great and I don't have to worry about it any more.

corin99,

Your choice. "it's a lot more effective to prevent them from doing damage than to have to kill them". I stated that I thought you understood squirrels. I now retract that...you haven't the foggiest idea!

Hal

Seems pretty clear to me...I don't have to worry about it or kill anything. Much more effective than having to spend time and energy shooting them. But maybe that's just how you get your kicks.

I agree with happyday. Eat that sucker. Treat the pests that are attracted as one more thing that grows in your garden. Rabbit is quite good if you've ever tried it; much like chicken. I don't have a problem killing an animal (I'm defending my territory and food supply), but I would prefer to put that animal to use if possible.

I just trap and release rabbits. I can afford to do so living in a city subdivision where the population is generally 2 or 3 in the neighborhood at a time. They seem to be quite stupid animals. If I get lax with my trap they move in and eat stuff, but as long as I can get rid of the adults by spring the new ones that move in seem unaware of my garden until my plants are large enough to take their nibbling.

Once the new adults find my fenced in yard and find a way to squeeze in via the gates they can be dealt with via canine. Again, they are stupid. They can outrun the dog, right into the fence where they are trapped and become dog food.

Unfortunately I just lost my dog to bone cancer at age 14 and am looking for another. Until then I have chased them myself and once I have them cornered they just freeze so I can pick them up and go relocate them. Never been bit, those guys freeze motionless.

If you live in the country where it is okay to fire a gun in your backyard thats great. But please don't describe how you kill animals and name the thread in a way that makes it seem like you care about animals. Regardless of what you say if you don't care about animals enough to not kill them, then you don't care about them. In the future a name like "I shot a rabbit today" would be much more appropriate to keep me (and others) from reading the thread. I don't mean to ruffle any feathers, but when talking about a controversial topic, such as killing animals, you should make the topic clearer.

Here are beagles for justaguy and recipes for wild forager.

Not like bunnies and skwerls are going extinct. They had a sporting chance! They could have stayed in the park/hedgerow/riverbank/etc and had a nice long life but no...

Here is a link that might be useful: beagles and bunny recipes

You SHOT THE BUNNY!!!! Oh YUCK!!! I love my veggie garden, but give me a break!!!

I understand shooting the bunny. Don't get me wrong I like animals. Last year I thought I planted enough to share with the backyard critters. WRONG. But I dealt with it. What I can not deal with is the squirrels destroying my out door furniture. That is where I draw the line. So I brought a BB/pellet gun. So far we have only shot the BB at the squirrels, haven't kill any. It will cost a pretty penny to repair the damage the squirrels have done. Today I saw two tiny little bunnies near my garden. Yes they are cute, but when I see them eating my garden, they will have to go.

Rose

Most of the time it is an easy choice. Raise veggies or feed wild animals. I spend too much time and money on my garden to tolerate the animals.

When I lived in an area with red squirrels they would get in my attic and I have had them poke holes through the walls. I didn't hestitate to shoot them (outside of course).

In the area where I now live I have mostly grey squirrels and they seem to prefer trees to attics, but that includes fruit trees and no one in my neighborhood can raise fruit because of the squirrels. We have lots of black walnut trees so they have a natural food source and dozens of bird feeders to rob. They will still destroy a tomato with one bite, then throw it down. They plant walnuts in my garden which is also a pain.

Rabbits are not much of a problem since I have a good fence, a large family of red fox in the woods at the end of the street, and a neighbor with three dogs that never get enough to eat at home. I also have a cat that likes to catch squirrels. I have no desire to eat either pest, but I refuse to allow a rabbit to destroy what I do have a desire to eat. Could I shoot the rabbits.....you bet. I just kind of live with the squirrels.

Believe me, grey squirrels will get into attic - and chimneys. I had to shoot a family of five once, in the house. Two years in a row we had a smoking hot squirrel (literally) jump out of the stove into the living room with us during the first fire of the year, they had made a nest in the chimney over the summer. Had to put a squirrel-proof top on the flue. At least squirrels aren't much of a garden pest.

Oh, horrible (and expensive) problems with squirrels. They got into the ceiling space between the floors of my two-story home. They can start a fire by shredding off the covering on wiring which they use to make nests. No critter of any kind is going to victimize me. Had to shoot them with a pellet rifle and trapped several. The guy from the pest control place put out poisoned peanuts. Don't do that. One died IN THE CEILING and the only way we found out was by the STENCH of his rotting carcass. Then I hired a carpenter to replace the wood where they had chewed holes in the soffit. He also put up some metal flashing that could be painted to match the house.

There are several black walnut trees in the neighborhood, two oaks in my yard, and of course my apple tree. All the acorns get raked up as soon as possible and thrown away. I control squirrels around apple time with a pellet rifle. Yes, since Nature fills a void, new squirrels will move in, but not until after the apples are ripe and harvested.

Occasionally, golden eagles that live on the river will come into town after pigeons and squirrels. One day I saw one on the roof of my house. I was so happy to see him because I knew he was after those tree rats.

The biologist at the nearby university told me that in order to prevent them moving into your attic, you have to remove all of the squirrels because they retain the memory of where they were born. It will be transferred to the next TWO generations. So, you're gonna have to kill them all so not one retains a memory of home. Also, he told me that removing them to a "safer" existence in the country or woods is the worst thing to do because it sets them up for being attacked and killed by the others who already live there. Competition.

Such is nature. Competition works on my level too. Squirrels who steal my apples and move into my house get snuffed.

Yes, bunnies can also be a big problem. Early in the season, I put alfalfa hay outside the fence. That seems to appease them. If I see them in my garden, it's curtains via pellet for them too. I work too hard and spend too much money on garden stuff to waste on critters.

Yeah, I shoot 'em, too. You could lighten up on the shotgun, though. A single shot .410 would be more than adequate and the shells are cheaper. You'd still have the advantage of a spread out shot to minimize misses and woundings.

To all who "relocate" animals - How would you like it if someone dumped their pest animals in your neighborhood? When I lived in the country, I saw a lot animals dumped, racoons, woodchucks, even cats and dogs. The guys in the car doing the dumping think they're great humanitarians for not killing the "pour widdle aminals". They are actually just jerks dropping their problems on my back.

Don't get me wrong, I'm usually a live and let live kind of guy but, like others said, when the rabbit takes its first nibble off my strawberries or nips off a pea plant, it's war.

farmerboybill: You and I think a good bit alike. As I mentioned before, we sometimes must take charge when destruction gets severe. We are, after all, still at the top of the food chain.

corin99: You said, "But maybe that's just how you get your kicks." Yep...I'm one of those "bitter, small town Pennsylvanians who cling to their guns and their bibles". (quote: Obama statement) ~grin~

Have a nice day!

Hal

To all who "relocate" animals - How would you like it if someone dumped their pest animals in your neighborhood?

Well that is a good point, but I don't release them near homes. I live in a subdivision, but the surrounding area is all fields. I let them go down a rural street with nothing but open fields and trees on all sides.

I don't think this puts my problem onto anyone else, but could be wrong.

Relocating animals can cause a long and painful death and create other problems. Animals don't immediately show symptoms of diseases they are infected by. You can move an animal today that will be obviously sick two days later. If you've done that you've increased the odds of spreading disease. Healthy animals might now be exposed to disease they needn't have been exposed to.

Territory wars can be mean and nasty. If you've never seen rabbits fight it might be hard to picture. They have sharp nails and teeth and inflict a lot of damage. An animal that can't establish its own territory struggles to find food and shelter. Without food and shelter they'll die of exposure and/or starvation. Death by efficient bullet or shotgun shell is much more merciful than a long, painful death.

There are other complications. I live just out of sight of a side road. They stop on the side road to empty, or leave, their live traps. Since people can't see me I must not be there, right? Wrong. Just because you don't see someone doesn't mean you aren't pawning your problem off on someone else. We've shot more raccoons and skunks than I like to remember. Did they do anything? Yes and no. They did what they do naturally - rip heads and wings off my chickens, ducks and turkeys, raid nests and kill unhatched birds, and expose my dogs and cats to disease. What they do is natural but it's not ok.

The poor little bunny was treated humanely. It could have had a much crueler, less humane, prolonged death.

I would love to pop a few rabbits (read many) but shooting a gun in the city in my area is unlawful and could mean jail time. Consequently I have had some success with havaheart. Love bringing them to area where they can meet mr fox. I'm good to go until I get a skunk the second time then I lose my apetite for trapping.

My Cattle Dog seems to sense when critters and people are around and will,with noise, go to the door wanting out. We have a choice let her out or listen to her bark all night. She usually heads in the direction of the garden. We don't lose anything to critters. Wish I could say that about the weather.

My mom loves squirrels. So she start giving this black squirrel peanuts everyday. He started showing up constantly, just lying on the steps waiting. Then he started jumping up on her screen door looking inside the house for the peanuts. Next he started chewing holes in the screen and popping his head through. Now she has duct tape on her screens.

A couple more comments, and then I'm outta here. ~smile~

Most of us know that rabbits are voracious munchers of our plants. Other than that, they're relatively harmless, but they breed like.....well, rabbits! If you're in a position to control their damage with fencing, etc., more power to you.

Not so squirrels. Squirrels are destructive to plants, birdlife, bird feeders, furniture, and structures. Passive conrols are always, eventually, figured out and bypassed as these tree-rats age and gain experience. Those of you on this thread dead set against zapping these rodents have, obviously, never had to deal with the damage they can do if left unchecked. Even if shown what they can and will do, you'd probably be left unconvinced and remain committed to the "live and let live" philosophy. Meanwhile, I'll remain thankful you're not making policy in our Dept of Defense. (a bit of a stretch, I know, but the same accomodation principles apply)

Cordially submitted,
Hal (done now...ain't ya' glad?) ~smile~

Was he holding up a sign that read "Duck Season?"

I have to agree with Hal. I heard about the damage squirrels could do, but it didn't effect me. Now that it is, it is a different story. They have destroyed my patio furniture, and are in my garden digging. I have tried scaring them by yelling, and throwing rocks. The squirrels only look at me like I'm crazy. So I brought a BB gun and it does get their attention. If I kill one (or more) so be it. The BB gun is cheaper than new furniture.

Rose