I will be surprise if this thread is not deleted.

?? why? it is reference to tobacco growing :) nothing illegal :) And tobacco is also a cheap insecticide :) works on aphids, thrips, whiteflies, and mites :)

I thought it might be a good idea because of the debate on the other thread :)

I think it would be a dis-service to not pass on a cheaper way of doing things by growing your own. I guess censorship like that though might be another way to restrict the rights of the addicted...*sigh* Oh well, I tried, no skin off my nose :)

Deleted? Why?? This is a gardening forum, so what is wrong with advice on websites for obtaining seeds for growing tobacco and websites for information on growing them?

It's not off topic at all.

It's no different than advice on where to get tomatoe seeds, how to grow tham and how to can them after harvest.

Our government gives HUGE subsidies to tobacco growers. (Something I totally disagree with.)

My uncle grew his own grapes and made his own wine for years. He always brought a bottle of his famous home made wine to every family gathering. After he died we each recieved a few bottles from his celler in remembrence.

Grapes are pretty easy to grow and if you have a fence you would like to cover the grape vines are a decorative touch.

Making your own wine or cigarettes IS legal but you are limited to a certain small quantity and should check with both your local and federal statutes. You CANNOT SELL what you make. It can be only for personal consumption.

I'll have to pass on growing my own tobacco. LOL. I smoke so much I would have to rip out my whole garden to grow enough tobbaco.

Thanks for the info Vernonia. DH and I like to make homemade Kahluah for Christmas presents and occasional after dinner drinks with friends. Now that my grapes are producing well, I'm thinking of taking up wine making also.

Another good source for tobacco info is www.seedman.com. I'm also confused as to why this thread would be pulled. Some people grow tobacco as a purely ornamental and fragrant plant.

Here is a link that might be useful: seedman

This thread reminded me of watching my grandfather roll his cigarettes. He had beautiful hands, and he did it very carefully, very precisely, and with great attention. And I loved watching it, altho' I hated the habit.

Bet he was a lot more aware and appreciative of each one he smoked than I am just snatching them out of the pack I buy at the convenience store.

Isn't that part of the definition of frugal? To maximize your enjoyment without necessarily spending more money?

Sorry, I thought growing your own tobacco was a no-no.

Upon further investigation, I see I was wrong.....

Sorry !

Enjoy your smoking ! (tongue planted firmly in cheek)

PS

Someone wrote "Isn't that part of the definition of frugal? To maximize your enjoyment without necessarily spending more money?"

Any and all savings of rolling your own cigarettes, is minuscule compared to the additional health care cost a smoker faces over their lifetime compared to a non smoker on average.

Not to mention that the rest of us non-smokers help pay for it. . . . .

While that maybe an accurate generalization, it is not in this case. My grandfather lived to nearly 90, and to the best of my knowledge, never cost breezyb a penny.

Altho' the taxes he paid on the papers and tobacco went pretty far.

"Someone wrote "Isn't that part of the definition of frugal? To maximize your enjoyment without necessarily spending more money?"

Any and all savings of rolling your own cigarettes, is minuscule compared to the additional health care cost a smoker faces over their lifetime compared to a non smoker on average."

I believe the original statement by Alison was correct. Because the type of "enjoyment" in question is smoking. She wants to maximize her smoking experience, with less cost. Quitting would kill the enjoyment to save money. That is not frugal, that is self deprivation :)

It is also extremely wasteful to spend your energy sniping at the choices others make. Smokers pay a LOT of money in taxes, and often pay extra money toward their healthcare plans (we do), They are also publicly shunned, and segregated. And on top of that, they have to put up with persecution too?? I mean really! what if the same restrictions were placed on caffeine addicts? Or wine drinkers? or the elderly? Or children with disabilities. REALLY think about that. I have never chastised my grandmother for having ailments and utilizing Medicare. After all, aging costs far more than smoking. A smoker dies sooner (on average)... none of this strung out illness for years on end. Smokers also use less SSI because they die sooner (on average).
Smokers know it is harmful, and most are courteous in their habit. My hus NEVER smokes close to anyone. If I want to be close to him outside and enjoy the quiet of the evening, he makes sure to step 20 feet away from me while he smokes, and fusses at me for getting too close to him. He is far more cautious than I. And I also feel the need to say... I have always found smokers to be pleasant laid back people that I enjoy the company of. I would much rather hang around with the smokers, than the ones who make cruel comments about the smokers. c'mon people... what ever happened to manners? IF YOU CANNOT SAY ANYTHING NICE, DON'T SAY ANYTHING AT ALL!

if you want to berate others, start your own thread
*stepping off the soap box*

and take note... I am NOT a smoker. I also do not partake of alcohol, or caffeine. But I find bad behavior and needless negativity reprehensible. But what I am is a nice person who enjoys passing along helpful items :)

BTW, Alison, I am glad it brought fond memories for you. My grandpa was a smoker/drinker, he was never sick a day in his life until his fatal illness. I have always LOVED the smell of a tobacco shop. I do not know anyone who doesn't :) When I was little my dad smoked a pipe, and I always loved the smell of the tobacco :) Thank you for helping me remember that :)

Vernonia, this is a public forum, and as such, people have a right to voice their views, if it is done within the guidelines set forth by the moderators and that are accepted when a user joins GardenWeb.com. My comment about the health care cost associated with smoking was written in full compliance with those guidelines.

Therefore, do not use your "Mother Goose" nursery rhyme logic of "IF YOU CANNOT SAY ANYTHING NICE, DON'T SAY ANYTHING AT ALL!" to nullify mine or anyone else's First Amendment right of Freedom of Speech for those who choose to voice a differing option, regardless of the thread.

If you are the type of person who wants everyone, on this forum to agreed with only the stated viewpoint, you may want to consider moving to Cuba, Iran, North Korean or even resetting your clocks back to the late 60Âs and early 70Âs when Richard Nixon was President of the United States of American.

Finally Vernonia let me leave you with this, do you know
(b) Kynn Kish??

Kynn Kish was a beautiful non smoker mother of two young boys (ages 8 and 10) who died, this year, of lung cancer at the age of 40 due to second hand smoke, because she worked in a smoked fill workplace her whole adult life.

When her young sons are crying and angry because they dearly miss their mother, the woman who gave them life, who died from smokers, shall we tell them your words of advice ""IF YOU CANNOT SAY ANYTHING NICE, DON'T SAY ANYTHING AT ALL!"?

Vernonia, there will be 157,200 people die this year of lung cancer (a) and 85% will be due to smoking.

Vernonia, enjoy your memories and thoughts of being in a smoke filled room with smokers. My thoughts and prayers will be and will always be with people like Kynn Kish and her young sons.

(a) http://www.cancer.org/docroot/NWS/content/NWS_2_1x_Anti-Smoking_Efforts_Cut_Lung_Cancer_Deaths.asp
(b) http://www.roycastle.org/

Exactly, it is a public forum, so people who chose to use and grow tobacco have a right to do that without being harassed. You made the first censure without any facts. I do not sit in smoke filled rooms. and I do not know anyone who smokes indoors anymore. I have lost very close people to me from cancer(not all cancers are smoking related), and other smoking related illness. I have had to nurse those dying, and tend to their every need in their last hours. To watch their bodies destroyed. But it is their choice. I do not condemn them at all. And I see no need to attack someone because of their choices. And your use of a family's tragic and painful story was a cruel way to justify your own unfair judgements. It has literally made my blood run cold, and made me nauseous. Maybe you could benefit from volunteering for hospice service. Once you see the horror, the intense suffering and pain of those involved, you might not be so quick to exploit it. I have nothing left to say about this, except that you can be very cruel to others. I hope your life treats you better than you treat others.

To others... Sorry this thread turned negative... I started it with the best of intentions :(

We all have the right to express our individual viewpoints, but does that entail the need to crack down hard on anyone who disagrees?

Veronia's post was prompted by my memory of my grandfather's hands becoming a springboard for healthcare costs and the iniquities of smokers who rack up expenses for other innocent people. Pretty far from the original intent.

Far from a threat to nullify your or anyone else's First Amendment right of Freedom of Speech, it was a suggestion that even frugal people can afford to be civil.

like the cigs from the shops.
Also, there are a heckuva lot of folks growing OTHER STUFF for smoking (as anyone who does searches on propagation will tell you. Or if you go looking for rooting hormone and you find a lot of Grateful Dead stuff on the site too.)
I have a cousin who claims to smoke Leonatus (lion's tail, or 'wild dagga' as it is called in Africa.) He took several of my Passiflora to do that with too! I never found out if it worked.
Me, I'm too chicken to even try. Plus all agree I am annoying enough sober.

To get back to the subject, you may be able to grow your own tobacco, but to cure it is quite another story. It will never taste like the cigarettes you are used to, because they have been professionally cured, and contain extra nicotine. This may actually mean that your husband will go into withdrawals, or smoke even more. Plus, without that filter, he's getting more carcinogens into his body.

I don't think you'll be very successful growing tobacco in Oregon. Look at where it's grown in the U.S., largely in the southern states. I come from SC, one of the largest tobacco growing states, and I'm telling you, it's not the easiest crop to grow.

But give it a shot if you want. You may end up regretting it.

I won't lecture, but I will say that every man that has died in my family has died from lung cancer from smoking. That includes my father, my brother, my uncles, and very recently, my brother-in-law.

I only have one more thing to say, then I'll force myself to drop out of this discussion.

Yes, smoking is a choice, and dying may be a consequence of that choice. But do they have the right to inflict on us the pain of watching them wither away with cancer, to grieve them even more knowing they could have prevented their own death, and to deal with the aftermath, such as unpaid medical bills because no one would cover them with insurance because of the illnesses caused by their choice of habits?

My uncle's health insurance was cancelled due to the fact that he had reached the limit of coverage every year for three years. Of course, he couldn't get coverage anywhere else, because he had lung cancer. My aunt was left saddled with over $1,000,000 in hospital and doctor bills, and five kids to raise on her own. She had to declare bankruptcy, and her kids suffered because she could never really make enough money to support them. She finally remarried, and believe it or not, her SECOND husband died of lung cancer also. Luckily, all of her kids were away from home, but without his income, she almost lost her home and everything she owned.

She's dying as we speak of emphysema from inhaling 30 years of second hand smoke. I have asthma from inhaling it from my father and from working in smoke filled offices.

Do smokers have the right to inflict this on us? It may be their choice, but they leave us with no choice many times.

I'm done ranting. Touchy subject for me.

I checked out the coffinnails site -- pretty interesting information.

Everyone I've known who's grown tobacco says it's very labour intensive. There are a lot of little tobacco farmers in southeastern Ohio. It was profitable for them at the time because tobacco brought such a high price, and the land is so hilly there that large-scale farming of moere common crops isn't feasible.

I covered a tobacco auction in Ripley, Ohio once, and it was pretty cool -- the sounds, the smells, the sight of huge bundles of dried leaves. But they were reporting fewer tobacco farmers even then -- I wonder how they're doing now?

Wow - it is really surprising that we couldn't come to a resolution on this issue. One would think that a website about GARDENING would be the perfect place to resolve socio-political issues. Hmmmmmm....maybe not. Besides don't most people work in the garden to clear our minds of these types of issues. Just a thought....

The view is always better from a soapbox - regardless of which one.

Que?

Sheesh! Thought this was a gardening site!
This issue seems to always be explosive, no matter which side you happen to be on.
I am just extremely grateful to have been born in America where I can choose! Smoke or not, it's up to me.
Many have personal experiences that influence their views in one direction or the other. That's not necessarily right or wrong or in need of changing.

There are many posts throught this site that I think are "wrong", petty, derogatory or whatever, but I certainly am not in any position to judge anyone. I'll let the big guy sort that out and keep my mouth shut in the hopes of maintaining a great website, available to all for the furthuring of our knowledge and helping of each other.

Now, you're probably all convinced that I am a "left'leaning, tree hugger". And you'd be dead wrong!
I am a relatively conservative republican Christian smoker.

Go figure.............let's stop judging and just listen!
If you don't like it, move on the the next post.
Deanna

Well said, daveturpin and dgkritch!

Veronica---I am so sorry that anyone spoke to you in that manner!

I am appauled that grown people have nothing better to do with their time then to tear someone else down.
When reading comments like what Drafted72 has said I usually shake my head and move on, but you know what Veronica, you sound like a very nice piece loving person who would in no way hurt a fly and I am just so sorry that someone felt they had to attack you.

Who every mentioned that there could be just as much fuss over over eating, over drinking or what ever was correct.

Smoking has been around for a long time, and was glamourized (ie hollywood) for a long time. Great strides have been made to inform the public of dangers and changes are being made.

Veronica you were giving planting advise I believe--Drafted 72 definitely has other issues.

There's a ton of tobacco home growers right now. I ordered some seeds from an agricultural website (investigational type thing) to see what types did best in home gardens. You can buy whole leaf on line (usually for cigar rolling) it's only when shredded that it comes under FDA unless the rules changed over the last year. Tobacco makes kinda a cool landscape plant. The thing about smoking it is drying. That's half of it. It's not the same and won't be.

I don't know what the issue is with people. People die from eating too much cholesterol; obesity and diabetes II is just as preventable. I used to raise baby birds and none died from second hand smoke but it was an instant death from heating a non-stick pan even on low. I'm not mentioning whether I smoke or not.

I just wish it was ok to discuss growing tobacco and keeping it on topic. It is an intriguing plant to grow with big beautiful leaves. I'd never seen it before. Instant tropics.