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keeperofthememories

Organic gardeners--how do you get rid of pests??

I'm trying to go organic in my garden. I did plant several companion plants after reading Sally Jean Cunningham's Great Garden Companions hoping that would help and I am deligent about weeding.

I haven't seen any pests but my collards are being chewed right up.

I'd love hear how those of you who are organic gardeners do it. What do you do to get rid of pests?

Comments (25)

  • justaguy2
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Probably a good idea to ask this (after reading some of the existing posts) in the organic gardening forum.

  • albertar
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Look real carefully at the collard leaves and along the stems, you'll probably find green worms chewing up the plants. They can be controlled using BT (bacillus thurigenis, spelling is off) or they can be removed by hand picking and squashing them. They come from those little white moths that are flitting around. If I remember correctly the eggs are orange, but I may be wrong on that. If you can get your hands on BT also known as dipel, they can be controlled.
    Alberta

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  • greatlakesmower
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I planted six tomato plants, enough for everyone. Myself, my neighbors, the birds, other pests (neighbors might be included in this category), etc.
    I also planted 4 different varieties to hedge my bets in case conditions aren't good for a certain variety, another one might thrive. Probably not the answer you are looking for, but that's how I do it.

  • keeperofthememories
    Original Author
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks for your responses.

    Upon careful inspection, I did find orange and white eggs on the underside of the leaves as well as a few green worms and promptly squished them all! Thanks!

    I had originally looked in the pest forum but hadn't thought to look in the organic gardening forum. Thanks for the suggestion!

  • iacche
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Mostly lots of hand-picking, which is fairly easy to do in a standard home garden. Also the "Jar of Death" is handy (a jar of soapy water to knock bugs into). A butterfly net helps in catching things that fly.

    Eventually you'll figure out where and when it's best to hand pick. Striped cucumber beetles are often found mating inside the squash blossoms. It's easy to catch them there, since they're cornered -- and a little . . . well . . . distracted, let's say. ;-) And I figure I'm helping pollinate the squashes by fussing around inside the blossoms (both male and female) while catching the beetles.

    Bug patrol is often most successful early in the morning, when it's cool. The bugs will be slower in the cool temperature, making them easier to catch.

    And companion planting (which you say you know about), putting things like nasturtiums, marigolds, and herbs around plants to ward off pests. Putting chives next to my tomatoes helped tremendously against an early infestation of flea beetles.

    There are also garlic sprays and hot pepper sprays that help against some things.

    And there are a number of insecticides that are approved for organic use. I use them sparingly, basically only if hand-picking isn't enough. (I'd love to be able to go out to patrol and play in my garden 16 hours a day, but my boss wouldn't like it.)

    Neem has been great for me to back up the hand-picking against bean leaf beetles. Last year the BLB got completely out of control. I want to try to break this cycle. Pretty soon my beans are going to be too big to easily hand-check.

    Rotenone is a dust you sprinkle or otherwise apply to plants (you can also mix it with water and spray it on). I use a paintbrush to coat the stems and vines of my squash plants. (I saw my first Squash Vine Borer moth the other day, and though I found and crushed 8 eggs, I might have missed some. I don't want to take any chances.)

    For attacks of Striped Cucumber Beetles, I hand-pick a few times a day, and I've set traps as well (a plastic cup,painted bright yellow, with a little Rotenone mixed into water, and a couple drops of Clove oil in it). The female SCBs are attracted to the scent and die in the liquid. I haven't caught as many as I hoped to so far, but every one helps.

    Pyrethrum is also a very safe botanical insecticide.
    Also diatomaceous earth, which is really the skeletal remains of some kind of algae, iirc.
    BT, or Bacillus Thuringiensis, is also very safe. It's a microorganism that kills cabbage loopers and other such nasties.

  • justaguy2
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    If you are growing veggies the veggie gardening forum and the organic gardening forum (for those interested in organic methods) are a great way to help keep your plants healthy and pest free.

    There is a lot of collective experience being shared here and not every idea that works well for one works well for all.

    However, you just got great advice from Alberta to check for green caterpillars on your collards. This is the kind of advice you can get here from experienced gardeners who just say hmmm.... collards + holes in leaves = cabbage moth larvae. Much of the time that guess is correct as cabbage moths lay eggs on lots of things with a preference for the brassica plants which many garden crops fall into (including collards).

    So, if you have a plant problem just come here and describe it (and if possible take a picture) and you will probably find the source of the problem and ways to remedy it.

    Lots of good advice on these forums and it's free.

  • keeperofthememories
    Original Author
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks for the tips. I did have quite a problem with cucumber beetles attacking my squash last year.

  • lelia
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I dunno, the Organic Forum is a tad slow, so I think it was good to post your question here. I'm not an advanced organic gardener, I just use simple methods. One thing I do is plant all kinds of native flowers and grasses to give beneficials a place to live. I don't know which plants work best, I just plant a variety, and it seems to work very well. I also turn myself into a gigantic beneficial insect, and snoop under and over leaves for eggs and insects, squishing them when I find them. I always check inside squash blossoms too, which are like rent-by-the-hour sleezy motels for cucumber beetles and allows me to squish two at a time. I don't like to use "products", but I did this year.... I used organic Sluggo Plus for my horrendous pill bug infestation because valuable seedling were being eaten. It worked, and I still have pill bugs, just not enough to pose a threat. So far, my simple methods are enough to satisfy me, so I'm happy.

  • julieann_grow
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Try trap crops. I have radishes all over my garden and sure enough, they are full of holes while the squash right next to them have none. Amaranth and kale are also great trap plants. I just put some here and there and everywhere.

    I wasn't eating very much kale and I left them in the ground when I planted the pole beans. I mean the caterpillars that usually chomp down on the green beans took out all of the kale, every leaf. Worked out well for me and for them, I suppose.

  • gratefuled
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    It's been said but bears repeating that there's a bit of a magic circle that you start up when you garden using gentler methods. Less pesticides = more (and healthier) insect predators = fewer insect pests = less pesticides.

    You should see my assassin bugs this year. Little robot ninjas.

    Ed

  • Karen Pease
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Observation: you said that you were "diligent about weeding" as though that were a part of pest control. Organic gardening is all about traps and predators. Weeds can be traps and provide habitat for predators.

    My recommendation: Don't let weeds shade your plants, but don't try to get every last one, either. The last thing you want is barren ground. Figure out what weeds are getting eaten up the most, and tend to leave those in. Also leave in shady things that don't get tall (violets, for example), or things that you often see little spiderwebs on (they're easiest to spot when there's rain or dew). Try not to let much if anything go to seed (and certainly never let any weeds that seem to serve little purpose go to seed). The weeds will come back next year, worry not; that's what weeds do ;)

    Just as an example: here's a good leafminer trap weed (Velvetleaf):

    {{gwi:66360}}

    Almost all of my velvetleaf weeds end up looking like that. I always let them get a foot or two tall before I pull them.

    Also: a good idea, I've found, is to encourage "weeds" that you like. I've naturalized poppies and mustard greens into my garden. I always let them go to seed. I only weed what gets in the way of my other plants.

  • keeperofthememories
    Original Author
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    karenrei, Wow! I never thought of weeds as traps, I've always thought of them as attracting pests to my plants. Thanks for enlightening me! :)

  • gamebird
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hand-pick bugs
    Have a very small garden with a lot of different things, so as not to send out a beacon of scent to pests
    Squirrel trap
    Fences/barriers
    Chastising the kids
    Keeping gates shut
    Keep on eye on things and respond quickly

    That sort of thing. Last year I was 9 months pregnant when my corn was infested, suddenly, with aphids and I was powerless to do anything about it. Being less able than usual. A few weeks later I was more able, but by then all the aphids were gone, like they never were there at all. In their place were hungry ladybug larvae. So as it turned out, spraying wasn't necessary at all.

  • lilacs_of_may
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Ladybugs are definitely a good idea. I released over 1000 onto my aphid-caked cherry tree. It seemed like they all flew away, but I guess some flew back because I began to see ladybugs, ladybug instars, ladybug pupa, and even a small clutch of ladybug eggs. And my cherry tree has remarkably fewer aphids.

    Paintbrushes. Now there's a good idea, one I should have thought of. I'll get some small paintbrushes for my rotenone and diatomaceous earth. That'll allow for more controlled application.

    I've heard it said that healthy soil makes for healthy plants, which are better able to fend off infestations and attacks.

  • oldroser
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The easy way out is floating row cover. Right now my chard, beets, kale, beans, squash are all covered with row cover. Just planted cukes and will apply floating cover ASAP. You get absolutely clean foliage, no squash borers, no bugs no.... For crops that need to be pollinated, the covers have to come off when they bloom. Squash borers generally have gone elsewhere by July 1 so the squash only has another week of being covered. As for chard, spinach, lettuce, etc - that cover just stays on.

  • keeperofthememories
    Original Author
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    oldroser,

    That sounds interesting--definately something I'd consider next year. I have a few question though. Do the covers need to be removed to water plants or if rain is expected? Also, how well does your lettuce do under the cover? (Mine has bolted already)

  • koreyk
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    here is another good organic forum.

    http://forums.organicgardening.com/eve/forums

  • flora_uk
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I don't think anyone yet has mentioned just putting up with some bugs. Obviously if they are chewing up your greens so badly you don't get any you need to act but it is not imperative to have perfection in the appearance of your vegetables if they are for your own consumption. For example, the outer leaves of my lettuces often get nibbled but I just trim them, root crops sometimes get a few tunnels or holes but I cut them out when preparing for cooking, chard sometimes get leaf miners but they don't affect the flavour, sometimes my beans are bent or my zucchini scarred but they taste fine, and so on. I think that people, especially beginers, often fret about not achieving perfection when it is neither necessary nor attainable. If you are used to seeing the sanitized, polished, chemically pumped up fruit and veg in the produce section you can sometimes be a little dissapointed by your own efforts - until, of course, you taste the difference.

  • hottomato
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I try organic gardening but this year I finally broke down and just yesterday sprayed insecticide. I was losing everything this time, trees, flowers, veggies.
    In the past I have released ladybugs faithfully but I have never seen them after the day of release. nematodes in soil, dish soapy water on the plants, praying mantis egg cases, all that. I do plant marigolds all over the garden and I also plant "extras", as others have suggested.
    Some years go better than others.
    This year even my marigolds are being eaten. Also my impatiens have been reduced to veined skeletons. I am supporting a broad spectrum of insects who enjoy cukes, watermelons, kales, chard, peas, tomatoes, geraniums, fruit trees, rosebushes, even my hardy dianthuses! So far I have seen no insect friendlies in the garden this year at all, but plenty of bogies. the robins do what they can for me, but they can't keep up.
    When I began to fear I was actually going to lose my cherry tree this year, I bought the commercial insecticide. First time in seven years I've done this.

  • laceyvail 6A, WV
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Glad somebody finally mentioned row covers. It's hard to remember how I gardened organically before they came on the market. And, yes, water goes right through them. But if the plant needs to be pollinated,you do have to remove them.

    However, New Organic Gardeners, a garden can take several years to develop a healthy ecology that includes beneficial insects. Having lots of annuals and perennials near the garden helps attract a variety of insects. I've been an organic gardener for over 40 years, but my first 4 years on this property, I had terrible problems with aphids, cucumber beetles, squash bugs, potato bugs and bean beetles. Now, some 6 years further down the line, I have an incredible variety of insects but no aphid problems (I just ignore the few I see because the ladybug and lacewing populations are so high), and very few bean beatles or potato bugs. I pick squash bugs and eggs and grow County Fair cuke (highly resistant to the wilt spread by the cucumber beetle), but see few anyhow. The biggest bug problem still is flea beetles. They can devastate a summer sowing of cole crops--kale, collards, late cabbage, tat soi--and to get those crops up and growing strongly I dust with rotenone and cover with row covers, checking daily that they are dusted. After two weeks, the plants are usually big enough so I stop the rotenone and just use the row covers.

    Build healthy soil and a healthy ecology and organic gardening is easy.

  • keeperofthememories
    Original Author
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks so much for all the replies. I got many ideas what to do now but even more on what I want to differently for next year.

  • scottamuss
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The best bet for the money is WATER! As long as your plants are watered properly they will be under less stress and less susceptible to pests and disease.

    Beyond that, Integrated Pest Management is a widely accepted technique nowadays. It uses proven methods to control pests only as the need arises. It is not 100% organic (but you could tailor it that way) but pesticides are used sparingly and only as a last resort.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrated_pest_management

    Here is a link that might be useful: violet_z6's IPM post

  • vgkg Z-7 Va
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Keeper, if you don't mind having wasps around your home they are pretty good care takers of veggies that attract looper type worms found on cole crops. I try to keep the paper wasps around my home that aren't in the way of high traffic areas. These wasps are fairly docile and tolerance of humans as long as they aren't directly distrubed. Wasps only - Not Hornets which are much more aggresive! They also patrol my asparagus ferns and corn silks for "worms" to eat.
    Here's a pic, aren't they cute ;o)

    {{gwi:64551}}

  • Violet_Z6
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    scottamuss,

    Thanks. I'll go ahead and post it here...

    By the way, I feel soil quality is more important than water. Far too many gardeners over water.

    Take the time to learn that there is not a "cure all" for every pest at every stage of it's life cycle. Some won't work if it's going to rain. Some don't work well if it's too hot, etc.

    Pest management is complex, if you wish to use chemical products, do so responsibly which goes further than reading the label. If you want to learn, a good place to start is here:

    Integrated Pest Management
    This lecture is presented in two parts. Each part is 90-minutes in length. Recorded in Sacramento County in California's Sacramento Valley, this lecture is by Mary Louise Flint, Ph.D., Director, IPM Education and Publications, UC Statewide IPM Project and Extension Entomologist & Cooperative Extension Specialist.

    Education:
    B.S. Plant Science, University of California, Davis
    Ph.D. Entomology, University of California, Berkeley

    Appointment:
    100% Cooperative Extension

    Research Interests:
    Integrated pest management of landscape, agricultural and garden pests; biological control of arthropod pests; alternatives to pesticides; adoption of alternative practices by practitioners; innovative delivery of pest management information.

    Topics discussed in the Integrated Pest Management Lecture:

    * IPM references and resources
    * Preventing pest problems
    * Natural common enemies
    * Making less toxic pesticide choices
    * Controlling aphids, scales, caterpillars, coddling moths, tree borers, snails and slugs, and lawn insects.

    You can watch the programs now online:

    Just make sure you have Real Player installed or download it free.


    Integrated Pest Management Part1 90 minutes


    Integrated Pest Management Part 2 90 minutes

    You'll want to bookmark the following link to Professor Flint's Lab Research on:
    Controlling Pests in Gardens and Landscapes: Vegetables and Melons

    I promise you'll learn one or two things to put in your gardening bag of pest management arsenals.

    ;)

    On Watering
    Some people want to customize the water for every plant. It's ambitious to try to give each plant the exact amount of water it needs but not practical or necessary. Even if someone gave you a chart, it would still depend on the quality and friability of your soil as well as the stage of the plant.

    So long as you have good drainage, the plants will take what water they need. General rule of thumb is that gardens require one inch of water per week by supplementing rainfall.

    You will have to adjust throughout the season and be attentive to the amount of rainfall you receive each week. There are two schools of thought on watering. Frequent shallow waterings or less frequent long, deep waterings. The general rule of thumb is that mature plants need 1-2 inches of rain per week in summer. You should provide whatever portion of this moisture is lacking. One inch of rain equals 65 gallons per 100 square feet of garden space. But this is just a guide. Time of the season, stage of the plants, soil composition, and many other factors affect the amount of water required. Be consistent during fruit production.

    Mulched plants require less water than plants that are not mulched. Raised beds require more than non-raised beds.

    If a good amount of compost is incorporated into the soil, less water is needed. Compost holds 6 times it's weight in water.

    Watering too frequently and too heavily is just as hard on plants as too little water. Roots require oxygen just as much as they require water and nutrients.

    Dry winds dehydrate plants.

    Cooler temps require less water.

    Those using drip irrigation whether from a soaker hose or milk jug are likely getting the best use of their water which is going right where it needs to go and the ground has time to absorb it.

    There are hundreds of methods of watering. Whatever you do, just be consistent. But I do agree, twice a day sounds like too much. Roots require oxygen equally as much as they require nutrients and water.

    I personally believe in a couple of deep waterings per week with the use of 2 inches of mulch to reduce evaporation and maintain a more stable soil temperature.

    Plants recover from dehydration much better then they ever recover from the roots being suffocated by drowning so under watering is better than over watering until you get the hang of it. Oxygen is equally as important as water and nutrients and rain water is always better than municipal tap water.

  • geedee-10se
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I have read about Garlic Barrier spray for pest control. Has anyone tried this? My biggest problem is with squash borers and flea beetles. I have had mixed success with rotenone.

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