Natural ponds

15 years ago

We have a pond behind our house, it's a natural pond, I'm guessing a couple acres in size. The beginning of spring, it's beautiful, sparkling blue water, frogs singing, I love living here. But come summer, it's just gross. Covered in green algae. I'm embarrassed for anyone to see it! We have a woods here, so the pond is surrounded by trees, except for the part that faces our house, which is our backyard.

I have read some about aeration systems one can put in...but those are oh so expensive, I'm wondering if there's any way to treat the water in this pond for the time being until something more permanent (and expensive) can be done? I see we are already getting the algae growth, so it's only a matter of time until the entire surface is covered. It's a shallow pond, I could walk across it and keep my head above water (and I'm 5'5"), and I don't believe there are any fish in it. There have been some years we've had droughts and it has completely dried up. I believe it's just fueled by rain and run off. But unless we have a severe drought, it's never dry. So I can't imagine fish could survive without being restocked if it dries up obviously, since I've never seen any bodies... although we do have painted turtles and snappers living in it. And mallards and Canadian Geese who visit daily.

I love this pond. Unfortunately we cannot afford to do it the justice it deserves. But I'm wondering if there's anything we CAN afford to do to help it for now...until we can get some aeration going in it to help?

Thanks for any input.

Angie

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Comments (20)

pamghatten
15 years ago
Hi Angie,

I'm not going to be much help .. I was going to suggest that you get some grass carp to eat some of the vegetation, but I think you are correct and it is too shallow.

I had my 3/4 acre farm pond dug out a couple of years ago after I lost all my fish one winter. There was so much sediment in the pond, it was too shallow for the fish. Sounds like you have too much sediment too, especially if it is surrounded by trees.

Maybe someone else has some ideas.
marlingardener
15 years ago
Angie,
There are chemical treatments for the algae, plants and general scum. These treatments are not injurious to your turtles, geese, water fowl, etc. For a comprehensive study and list of remedies, go to the Cornell Cooperative Extension website http://pond.dnr.cornell.edu to download Farm Pond Maintenance Routines. Even though you do not have a "farm pond" water is water, and the fact sheets are very helpful. Also, if you go to the Texas A&M site and contact Dr. Billie Higgenbotham at b-higgenbotham@tamu.edu with specific questions and perhaps photos, he will be able to help, even though you are not in Texas. Don't tell him we said so, but he is the pond god!
There is a relatively inexpensive aeration system using a windmill and hoses that run out to the center of the pond. We are looking into this system, and may use it for our "pond."
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Waterbug guy, First I will talk a little bit about concrete in water. You say it is a myth that concrete in water can kill fish and raise the PH. When concrete first sets up the surface PH is 12.0. Which is the same PH as a drain cleaner called "draino". As it is exposed to the CO2 in the air the PH goes down. But water is a very good leaching agent and so water will continue to try and get the chemicals out of the concrete. So will the PH in the water be raised? If the water has normal PH of 6.5 to 8.5 the answer is yes. The real question should be "how much will it raise it"? That question isn't easily answered as there are a lot of variables. Just to list some the age of the concrete, the condition of the concrete, is the water flowing over the concrete, the natural PH of the water, is the water being changed, and the volume of the water versus the contact area of the concrete. In some cases the rise might be so low as to make it very difficult to measure. But in other cases it can and does raise the PH to 9 to 9.5. At these levels it can and does kill fish. If I remember correctly you have stated that you are a pond contractor. If you are I hope you having started using roofing liner in the ponds that you build. Most of the time a person on this forum is never going to have a problem with roofing liner. Can there be a problem with roofing liner? This should be the question. The answer is yes. The chances that there could be a problem is very low. The largest pond product manufacturer in the US sent out a letter to all their customers a number of years ago. This letter said that all their liner in the future would be tested to be fish safe as they got a batch in that was not. In other words they were selling roofing liner as pond liner. This company had been selling a lot of liner for 10 years before this problem. If it had happen today with the wide use of the internet I would have think that some lawyer would have gotten this information and started a class action lawsuit against them and they would be out of business. The lawyer could easily have sued them not only for the cost of the liner that they had sold but for the cost to replace all those liners in the ponds built with them going back to the first time they sold this liner. The largest liner manufacturer in this country has told me that almost never would you ever have a problem with roofing liner but you might. I think that as a contractor you can't take that chance. If you were unlucky and did have a problem and were sued over that problem the lawyer handling the case would find out that they would sue for every customer that you have that has this liner. In other words you would be out of business. So is roofing liner toxic? No most of the time. But there is a small chance that there maybe a problem. I have only talked about 2 of the 8 things that you listed. I could easily talk about many of the other things listed but my point is this. You listed these things as black and white but they are not black and white. The only thing that is black and white about ponds is that all aquatic life will die. Mike
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What your situation represents is the effects of siltation. The original pond has probably filled in with sediment. This may be due partly to a decrease in rainfall rates in your area over the years that precluded any strong water surges into your pond to help keep the siltation to a minimum. There are several ways of approaching the matter. The first should be to get an idea on the rate of flow of the water into and out of your pond or bog area. Then determine if the outflow area can be steepened and perhaps lowered to help increase water flow out of the wet area. Then I would dredge out the pond area proper. You may want to look upstream at the inflow system to determine if natural flow is being blocked. If it is your property then you can remove debris in the upstream portion to help increase flow into your pond. Once all this is accomplished I would let the system return to whatever balance in inflow/outflow will occur. Do not plant any trees or any plants until the system's balance is determined so that you can have an easier stab at making whatever adjustments in flow rates you may wish to pursue, either increase or decrease. Once you have stabilized the pond water flow rate and are satisfied, then let the system sit as is for a year and see what Mother Nature will do as far as introducing plants into the system. For mosquito control you may want to use the dunks and once the pond has cleared maybe even start working out a natural tier of fish, from herbivores to a few predatory fish, and slowly introduce into the pool, PROVIDED that plant life has returned to the pool. If not then check out what native aquatic plants are in your region and see if you can either buy or collect some to introduce into your pond BEFORE introducing fish. You should wait a year for the plant growth to reach a stage where it can be grazed without being overgrazed, or supplement with fish food as necessary. It is a precise balancing act and may take some time to get all the vectors working in such a way as to eliminate it becoming much of a burden to your time and resources. you may want to check with your local library on earthen ponds. I could not find a website that wasn't trying to sell either a product or a service in regards to your question. Main thing is TO THINK IT THROUGH COMPLETELY BEFORE YOU STICK THAT SHOVEL INTO THE PROJECT! Good luck.
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usmc_recon
15 years ago
Where is our local science guy Brendan? This may be within his area of expertise or experience.
bulldinkie
15 years ago
io have a pond.we have a windmill near pond that pumps water in pond from a well,I also have a pair of white mute swans on pond.my pond is fine not sure why it doesnt get green,maybe from swans & windmill.I would never put chemicals in pond,never.
brendan_of_bonsai
15 years ago
I just moved and started up a new round of classes, marlingardener post was great though.

Tell me, the mat of green on the top, can you pick up some of it, or is it like floating custard? If its got any strength to it it's going to be filamentous protists, like spyrogyra, if it falls to bits it's going to be bluegreen cyanobacteria.Hope for strength. The first step (if its got strength) is to mechanically remove it, as in with a rake or skimmer net. You have algae growing in your pond because of the high levels of nutrients , and pulling the algae out will reduce them (phosphorous is specifically what you are after, there are lots of cyanobacteria that will fix N2 as nitrate for you, making it impossible to solve an excess nitrate problem). After doing this a few times the algae will not be as aggressive, and the pond will smell nicer. The next virtually free step is to increase the biodiversity in the pond, got around and find all of the clear and chemical free ponds in your area that you can, and get a few bucklets of water (and a little sediment) from them, a few times a year is best. There are critters that will eat the algae and you can get them this way. Next I'd add some competition, lilly pads and fast growing surface plants like parrots feathers are good inexpensive choices, if done well. If anyone in your area has lilly pads you can take a boat out and collect the pods at the end of the season, pull out the seeds, knick them, and start them under a few inches of water, put them in pots and move them deeper and deeper as they grow , until you get them to their final locations, a few clippings of parrots feather spaced out around the perimeter of your pond will spread, unfortunately I do not know about avoiding predation from turtles, duckweed can be a good choice too, it will float on top of your pond as a mat, but its much more attractive than scum. Finally moving on to chemicals most of them will kill off the invertebrates that naturally eat the algae (because they are primarily copper sulfate, if the chemical you are about to add is blue, stop and read the ingredients), making them a prolonged commitment. Hydrogen peroxide works pretty well on blue-green cyanobacteria, although I don't remember the doseage, its hard to overdose it though, since all higher plants and animals already make peroxidases which breaks H2O2 down, which is why you can literally gargle 3% H2O2. I think its something like a gallon of 3% per 10,000 gallons, although I'll have to look it up. If you go on google earth and find the pond you (or a theoretical you, meaning someone else) could estimate the area of the pond, and then we could take your estimates for depth and figure out an area.

Depending on the size of the pond there may be no good option that isn't expensive, the benefit to biological controls like fish is that they reproduce and scale themselves up.

Good luck and hope this was helpful.
rockguy
15 years ago
Since you don't have fish anyway, barley straw can clear up a lot of algae. Can you get barley straw where you live?
brendan_of_bonsai
15 years ago
I've heard mixed reviews of barley straw. I have seen some amateur studies of it and they all seem to come out negative. Most of the time the balance of life in a pond will swing to take care of an algal bloom and they will clear themselves up, which could be a factor contributing to the notion that barley straw will fix an algae filled pond.

Barley straw is however safe with fish.
grullablue
Original Author
15 years ago
WOW! TONS of info here! I know from past years, the scum on top of the water is not heavy....it's like little particles. If you can imagine it....kinda looks like cottage cheese, with the little balls. When the snappers will come up to the lawn to lay their eggs, they're just covered in these tiny green dots. (so yes, it falls to bits). I took my son to our local zoo once, and we saw the alligators. Their tiny pond was totally covered in this same scum our pond is, and I don't remember what the sign said it was, but it showed a picture of it and said it was actually a sign that showed the water was "healthy." I wasn't sure I could believe that. Maybe for alligators though, can't say I know much about them! =)

I'm going to definitely have to take notes from these posts, and look into them further! I would so love to have a nice, clear pond someday, one that I can be proud to look at and show off all summer. But, the scum is slowly starting, and will overtake the pond soon enough, and then I'm totally embarrased for anyone to see it! But...being right outside my living room window, I can't hide it either......
goldenpond
14 years ago
when our pond got string algae I raked it out and used it as compost. Went to a pond store and got bags of special bacteria that eats the decaying matter.If you mow near it or trees drop their leaves into it that can be a problem,adding nitrogen.
Maybe you could get on craigs list and ask someone for help and you will allow them to fish in it if they help you clean and stock it. I saw an add there of a guy saying he would pay to lease farm ponds so his kids and he could fish Just a thought.Ponds are great when they are clean and beautiful A small amount of plant life and scum is expected though and I was told you should not be able to see any further than a foot down or it is TOO clean!
Mine is full of life and we get so much enjoyment from it!
We have a flow well so we do have clean water coming in but still it takes work.Pulling some cattails etc. We got a few ducks who do a great job of cleaning weeds and the fish we put in tilapia,bass and sunfish clean any duck droppings.
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brendan_of_bonsai
14 years ago
absolutely stunning
eyecndiggit
14 years ago
Float a bale of dry hay in it. Doesn't have to be barley just cheap grass hay...2 acres? Maybe two bales.
Anyplace it looks like there is runoff from the surrounding area (or can be runoff)plant some heavy feeders like yellow iris and cattails in the GROUND. Plant a lot but not in the water just in the pathway where runoff could be getting into the pond. Runoff is usually very high in nutrients (fertilizer) that feeds the algae. If you plant heavy feeders in all the possible runoff spots they will reduce the nutrient level and choke out the algae.
Of course lotus and water lilies IN the pond will help too.

Chemicals are bad for the fish and they don't solve the nutrient problem.
nelda1234
14 years ago
goldenpond - absolutely beautiful, stunning and well I could go on and on :)and what a beautiful little blond (ducky) you have! LOL!! Looks like you all get alot of enjoyment from your pond/lake! Would love to see pictures of it in the fall and especially the winter time - are you able to ice skate on it in the winter?
usmc_recon
14 years ago
Very nice. You have spent some time and effort. It shows. I could see me kicked back in one of those chairs with a tall iced tea. I doubt you do much outdoor ice skating in zone 9b but I bet you can fish it year round.
goldenpond
14 years ago
nelda,no skating here I am in sunny florida!
Fish ahhh yes
nelda1234
14 years ago
Duh! LOL - The picture was so stunning that I did not notice the zone! Fishing sounds great - yup I too could see myself kicked back with a tall glass of Ice Tea in one hand and a fishing pole in the other :)
mersiepoo
14 years ago
Just be really careful if you use cattails..they can get out of hand very quickly. The plus side is that you can eat the rhizomes and use the leaves for weaving. :)
runningtrails
14 years ago
Just gorgeous, Goldenpond! Absolutely stunning!

That's a lot of grass to mow!
wrldchange_aol_com
13 years ago
I'll second the Parrot Feather statement. Look online for anyone nearby on Craigslist that might be giving some away or just place an ad and ask if anyone has some. Parrot feather lives directly off the nutrients that are available in your water, and if you have that much algae, you have a lot of nutrients available for algae to grow. Parrot feather is partially submerged but grows fern above the water, much nicer to look at than algae! (google it and you will find pics of it).
Also, on getting rid of the algae, if it's the stringy type of stuff and can be wrapped around a stick or something, I would suggest you get a cordless drill, put a long stick in it (or whatever you have that you can put into the chuck on the drill) - at least 2 feet long, get some of that algae started around it and turn the thing on. It will wind that junk up in a hurry.
bulldinkie
13 years ago
We have a pond,We have areation,if you get one get the one on bottom of pond not floating.I have no problem with algae,I have a white mute swan,she takes care of all that,You need fish to keep the balance,I get my fish from Zetts fish farm.look it up.They have fingerlings bass,blue gills catfish,crayfish.Theyll tell you what you need.They have turtle traps,areators.plants.lillies etc.
We also bought a windmill 50' high that pumps well water into pond.
bulldinkie
13 years ago
I dont think Id invite people to fish someone gets hurt theyll know who to go after..

Natural ponds

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