I think it would be great to preserve it as a ruin instead of bastardizing it since you have so much other usable space. Why not exploit the unique sacred feeling of the space left in time? Adding pergolas or fire pits will leave you with something that is neither a preserved piece of history or a space of its own.

It is a very cool thing to have and preserve. I think it would be great if you could resist the temptation and preserve it.

Thank you Laag. We really have no great desire to turn the foundation into something else, but in our efforts to try to figure out how to maintain it (weeds grow up in the middle of it, can't mow it) we started discussing the options for "developing" it into something. I actually prefer the idea of preserving it as it is, if we could figure out some way to manage the maintenance. Would you have a suggestion as to a ground cover for this large an area that would effectively keep down weeds? Any other suggestions for enhancing the area? I really appreciate your input on this. Thanks again. Kim

The English have a long tradition of "ruins" whether original or added later. That's what you have but not quite established yet.
What about adding just a little more to the framework to make it less of a question mark and more "How interesting".
What comes to my mind is adding a doorway (stone/brick) that you can grow an old fashioned climbing rose on.
I love the limestone path but maybe re-use the material by laying it inside the foundation.(I know there isn't enough to cover the inside but perhaps lay it around the inside perimeter and fill in with brick. Perhaps you'll have a wedding there one day, or a moonlight party.
WWMD? (What would Martha do :))
You have an interesting feature on your property. Let it speak to you.

I like the barn foundation - it looks like some of the ancient 'standing stones' with all their mystery and atmosphere. If weeds are a problem, why not just clear out the weeds (Round-up or manual removal) and replant with grass to make mowing easier. Then you could use the area as a nice picnic destination.

The cobble road looks odd to me. Maybe I'm not properly interpreting what I'm seeing... The 'cobbles' look awfully large and uneven - must have been a bumpy ride and a danger to the horses' legs! In the second picture, I can see a stone wall. Do you need any more stone walls elsewhere? If so, I'd be inclined to use the stone from the road to build them. Reusing existing materials is a good, thrifty farm tradition so that would be in keeping with the history of the property. I'll bet the rest of the stone from that barn foundation was used somewhere else on the property (?in the wall?)

We have all winter to think about this unique situation. When confronted by such an interesting question I usually put a piece of paper on the front of the fridge and write down thoughts as they occur, no matter how random or off- base they seem. Helps me to analyse and focus. Some ideas forth coming.

First thought...there is no ground cover in the world that will choke out weeds in your situation. Forget the idea.

Now, two questions:
1. I note that some of the barn upright stones have a rebar driven into the tops. Is this true of all the tallest uprights or just a few? Can't tell from your pictures.
2. Noting the rushing stream I wonder if you have investigated a 'ram pump' which uses no electricity and could be used to provide water to the far reaches of your property?

Thank you all so much for your thoughts and comments. I've spent some time surfing through some of the "follies" and "sacred sites" websites -- Avebury is indeed magical.

While the stones of Avebury and other such ancient sites look perfect standing in the grassy fields, I don't think grass would work in our situation for several reasons. There are several shorter stones throughout the foundation which you can't see in the photos, but which make mowing inside the foundation impossible. They could probably be removed, but I would hate to remove any of the stones. Trimming grass around the individual stones, as well as the stone border surrounding two sides of the foundation, would be a time consuming chore. And I'm wondering whether the contrast of something other than grass growing within the foundation would work better in our situation.

Nandina, I'm still wondering whether English Ivy would work as a groundcover inside the foundation, after first erradicating the grass and weeds and putting down a heavy layer of mulch. English Ivy and ruins just seem to go together in my mind. I'm willing to hand weed for several years as it grows in. What do you think? The one concern I have with Ivy is you can't walk through it very easily, without being tripped by the vines. (In response to your questions: the iron posts were used and are still present only in the stones on the two outside ends [E & W, loadbearing walls]; I'm not familiar with a ram pump, but we installed a water line from the house down to the creek, with a spigot at the bridge.)

Naplesgardener and Woodyoak, the stone road to nowhere IS an odd arrangement adjacent to the foundation, but we prefer not to remove it. We have wondered its purpose since buying the property, and this summer we were put in touch with an older gentleman who grew up on the property when it was a working farm. The stone road was built along the front of the barn so the horses and wagons could pull up under the hay loft, alleviating the mud and rutting that was creating. The stones were set on end rather than flat so the mud didn't build up on the stones and the horses could get better traction. The gentleman said the horses were later replaced by tractors, and the road was "rougher than a cobb" to drive on :) Being in the heart of limestone country, we have no shortage of stone on the property and have piles waiting to be used, somewhere, somehow.

You've all given us a lot of ideas and much more to think about -- we're very appreciative. We've really been stuck on what to do here. I think we are now moving our thoughts in a better direction. If you have any other ideas or suggestions, they would be greatly appreciated. This winter will be a good time for us to start digging out the sod and weeds.

Thank you all again. Kim

I don't know specifically which ones will work in your area, but maybe you should check out no-mow grasses. I think it's beautiful in the right setting, and wish I had somewhere to use it.

Instead of grass or ivy, would something like white clover grow there for you? It stays low and wouldn't need mowing but would give the impression of, and function much like, grass. It does attract bees though so that could be an issue if you're allergic to stings. Maybe some of the 'steppable' plants would work as an alternative - Irish moss...? Orange scented thyme...?

Re the road, could you just remove the part beside the barn foundation? (From the tree/bush forward in the third picture...) I think the 'busy' look of the road would detract from the serene look of the standing stones of the foundation if you decide to leave them more or less as they are.

It's suuch a unique feature to have. Lets of things to think about...

Planting ivy as a groundcover would be a serious mistake! Based on what you have written I doubt that any of my ideas would be acceptable to you. Have you considered that this old barn was the work horse of your property at one time and that you might want to think of ideas which enhance, preserve and contribute to the rest of your landscaping? Meditation garden? Japanese garden with conifers? Interior gardens laid out in an animal 'stall' pattern? Put that unique feature back to work for you.

This has been a fascinating posting. Not only does it include a unique set of circumstances but the situation has been unusually well presented by the OP one reason why there has been such good feedback.

If have no suggestions to offer  just a different perspective. I have found that some things central to the pursuit of gardening, which lay outside the bounds of normal, are just not obvious to causal observers. In many ways, I consider this within the realm of good art. Just like in an art gallery or museum, a docent or printed handout imparting inside knowledge is what is really needed for people unfamiliar with the project to "get it". Once this additional information has been shared with them, they will often spend much more time looking at and pondering what they see before them on a new, much deeper level. Viewers often just canÂt wait to share their newfound insight with others that they bring with them on a return visit.

Barns are such an interesting topic  and one which is quickly disappearing. You have but a ghost remaining. As Nandina has touched upon, the barn was the very center, the very heart and core of every farming operation of a simpler agrarian life, long since passed. In fact, there is documentation that shows during settlement times, the barn was often the very first building constructed. Quite simply, the barn held a much higher importance to a settlerÂs survival than did a mere house. This was not always the case but even when construction of the major barn was delayed, completion was always cause for much celebration. The symbolism imparted by the size and unique features of a farmer's barn had tremendous meaning and value.

You have been truly blessed to have found someone who actually worked on this farm and remembers the way things were. This insight is irreplaceable! Most of us are familiar with TV host P. Allen Smith advising us to look for ways to "extend the home out into the garden and bring the garden into the home". Personally, I think this is excellent advice  but how does one go about doing that?

Over the years, I have had great fun and success sharing a bit of my landscapeÂs "secret story" with framed wall hangings. For example, a former residence and landscape; which was featured in a full, Sunday newspaper layout, had actually been condemned by the city when I first purchased it. I did extensive work to rehab both the structure and grounds; eventually turning it into a showplace and wonderful home. However, placed just inside the front entrance, where it would barely catch your eye, was the actual condemnation notice, professionally framed. It was bright orange and framed complete with the staples that had formally affixed it to the building. Needless to say, the orange did not compliment the decor. However, it revealed a history and told a story that imparted a whole new dimension to the way that guests viewed my home and landscape.

I have used a gallery of photos in my new home to tell an entirely different story. Your barn story and the descriptive detail about how and why they laid the stones on end is wonderful. This is the stuff of which real history is made  not wars and the generals who fought them!

Quite frankly, you have a duty to capture this story before it is lost. I would be hustling my butt over to this guyÂs place to both write down the story details and take his picture. I would probably also take a photo of his hands. HeÂs probably got some great-looking, gnarly hands from years of hard work. Somewhere within your home, I would hang a framed copy of his barn story along with his photo. Perhaps you may even want to hang a small series of frames which capture the essence. Although this may not be exactly what Mr. Smith is inferring; clearly, this is a way to blur a distinct boundary between landscape and garden. The barn site is now a ruins. Embrace it and celebrate it. You just watch  as you begin to share your story with guests, they (and you) will begin to look upon and ponder it in a whole new way.

As I have said in other postings, our human nature inclines us to default to always adding something more (like ivy). Often that is a mistake.

IronBelly

I forgot ... Don't solve one design problem by creating another.

IronBelly

Fascinating! I like the look of the stones as they are in photos 1 and 2. In photo 3 I'd remove the big bush.

I can imagine this area two ways: surrounded and filled in with a very short, very green grass such as one might see on a putting green, or moss, if the area is damp enough to support it; or as a dry mediterranean herb garden with decomposed granite between the stones, and a bit of parsley, sage, rosemary, thyme and lavendar informally growing here and there, I would studiously avoid constructing anything more complicated than a single simple bench on the site, and maybe not even that. However, I have no idea if either vision is the least bit practical in your climate... Even bare, swept dirt would not be offensive...

Just a fly-through post with an idea that is probably totally historically insensitive and boorish... but wouldn't those foundation blocks look most natural with some beams across them? It might be a sacrilege to put new beams on them, but (a) perhaps you could find old ones, (b) they would create a place to sit without adding a bench, and (c) if would give the whole thing some visual form and maybe make sense of the road chunk. Even if you just did one or two to sketch the outline.

For covering the ground, how about an annual delivery of mulch of some sort... pine needles, wood chips...?

KarinL

How about vinca for a ground cover? It's a tough vigorous evergreen with white, blue, or burgundy flowers in the spring and drought tolerant. For fun add a large horse topiary frame.

Great property. The existing landscaping looks good and matches the house. Large estate house surrounded by well groomed gardens. Lots of open grass.

Why continue this expected design to the barn foundation? Consider making the barn location a 'hidden' garden - a place of mystery. I'd plant shrubs, and wild plants, definitely add some Ivy to add that old look. Create a natural wild area. The foundation would show through along the edges. Make a path or 2 through the place to allow the visitor to see more of the stone work. The visitor would see bits of the barn at a time, instead of all at once.

You'd want to 'manage' the wild look so that it is not too full. You want to see the 'surprises' as you wonder through the place. The stones need to be partially hidden. Now each stone pillar becomes a separate work of art.

In the center, have an area that is a bit more open and place a bench for meditation. From there you should not be able to see any of the houses in the area, due to vegetation. But you would locate it so that you can see the stone work.

You now have another world to visit - one that is both very different from the rest of the property, and one that is very unique from virtually any other property.

i think a couple of shade trees would serve to choke out underbrush and self mulch the area.......some farm antiques and a bench or hammock and... walla!........no maintenance

A PSC is a "possibly stupid comment". I've got two

First PSC: In your original post you mentioned an interest in conifers. I am totally, totally ignorant on this topic, but reading here and noting, in particular, Karenl's growing interest in evergreens, I've been trying to learn more. Is there something that might be done that would combine dense low growing forms with a few interesting dwarf/slow-growing upright forms? As I understand it, there are different greens, golds, bluish, and purplish needled evergreens. Or is this a VSC (very stupid comment).

I somehow imagine this with a wide passage through the middle mimicking the barn's original function, which would have included bringing animals in and out along a central passage. The other thing I get in my mind's eye are annual / perennial blooming vines. There are many clematis that will happily sprawl along the ground and/or climb the remaining upright structures and I think they could work well combined here and there with the evergreens.

Second PSC: The possibly stupid part is the fact that I was wondering if generations of animal waste has impacted the soil quality in this area. I could turn this into something smarter simply by putting it as a question: What are the soil conditions?

Wellspring

The barn has served it's original purpose many years ago, but it's mission is completed.

If a row of stones doesn't work for your current plans, then recycle them elsewhere or put them on Craigslist. Don't feel constrainted by trying to preserve history.

If you do keep the stones, then definetely cut off the re-bar, as they are impalement hazard.

I'll have to admit; normally, I would agree with Isabella. I am not a fan of preservation just for the sake of preservation. However, the unique, distinguishing feature that elevates this project to another level of consideration is the vertically laid, stone roadway adjacent to the foundation remnants.

The barn foundation lends a sense of context and justification to this conveyance oddity. In general, it introduces a pleasant contrast by juxtaposition of the modern residential development against the essence of the landscape's history. Herein lies artistic design potential on a personal level, preservation of these artifacts conjures more questions than answers as evidenced by this thread.

IronBelly

P.S. --- Remove that bush.

I don't know how to begin to thank you all for your very thoughtful comments and suggestions. I'm overwhelmed and appreciative!

I've read and re-read all your posts and continue to ponder the best way to incorporate this feature into our landscape. The foundation is actually one of the reasons we selected this property -- we love the stones and the history they represent -- and we have known all along it would be a challenge to properly address them. We've been trying to think of different options for the past 4 years, but were preoccupied with other parts of the landscape first. Having now removed most of the overgrowth in that area, we're ready to get serious.

Ironbelly, I love your suggestions on preserving the bit of history we were able to learn and I will be sure that information is not lost. Unfortunately, the gentleman who use to live here now lives in Oregon and my husband only spoke with him by phone. We hope he will return to Indiana for a visit and we can have him over to the property to provide us with more history. While we've always appreciated these remains, knowing some of their history certainly increases our connection to them.

We will continue to consider all the suggested options over the winter. I have to admit I go back and forth on different ideas. Since we've removed so much overgrowth, the property now feels too open to me. In looking at the back property as a whole, which is difficult to see in the pictures, I feel it needs division so you don't see it all at once. Madtripper's suggestion of a "hidden garden" really appeals to me for that reason, and the location of the foundation on the property is the perfect place for a wall of shrubs, perhaps surrounding the whole structure ($$!!), with wide openings as suggested by Wellspring, to hide the foundation from a person's first view of the property and allow it to be "discovered". Beyond that, the weeds have to be removed and replaced with something. A heavy bed of bark mulch would be the easiest first step, possibly with a path of gravel or pavers. What to plant, or not to plant, inside the foundation then becomes the dilemma. My thoughts of using only a low groundcover, rather than creating a "garden" of perennials, dwarf conifers, or other shrubs within the foundation itself, stemmed from a feeling that we should keep it simple and avoid plantings that compete with the stones, but rather would set them off. I would love to use something like Irish or Scotch moss, but I don't think we have enough moisture in that area. I've looked at the "Stepables" website which has many nice groundcovers (again $$!!). I'll continue to research all these options, including the "no mow" grasses.

Wellspring, your PSCs aren't SC at all!! The conifer combinations you mention in PSC #1 are exactly what we're trying to achieve in a large part of our landscape, mainly as mixed conifer perimeter plantings with specimen island beds scattered in front of them. Because of all the other conifers around the yard, I feel like this area should be different (although I have to admit the thought of a tall formal Yew hedge around the whole foundation structure keeps popping into my head). I also like the idea of clematis scrambling across the ground and up the stones. Re. PSC#2, we learned that the barn had a raised floor and was used to store grain and implements, rather than livestock, so the soil should be fine.

Karin, we actually found several of the old timbers in the weeds and have saved them. You can see them lying on the ground in pic#2. They're pretty rotten and wouldn't hold up a person, but I might look for a place to lay them into the notches in the foundation in a place or two. Thanks. And keep working on Wellspring to convert him (her?) into a conifer addict :)

The big (honeysuckle) bush at the edge of the foundation has been allowed to remain this long only because it screens a direct view from our neighbor's house to our equipment shed (and our grandchildren love to play inside of it). We intend to remove it sometime in the future, after our perimeter conifers have established a screen and the grandkids have outgrown it :)

Again, thank you all so much. We'll continue to mull over all your diverse ideas and suggestions and welcome any additional thoughts.

Kim

I love the old posts and road and wouldn't move anything except the large bush.
Mulch is probably the only thing I'd put within the foundation, but I also like catkim's suggestion of decomposed granite. The granite would probably make upkeep much easier.

I totally agree with ironbelly's suggestions and thoughts.
I would write the gentleman that now lives in Oregon (let me know if he's in the Portland area!) and plead with him to write everything he remembers about the property and also ask for a photo. Waiting for him to visit may never happen and if he's elderly time is definitely a factor!

"The barn has served it's original purpose many years ago, but it's mission is completed". Isabella that is true, but costs of removing it or burying the stones will be large, so just keep Stonehenge in-place and work around and with it.

The stone geometetric layout does suggest a formal garden or allee of sorts, so that approach will need to be hidden from the other meadow and forest themes at your homestead.

Along the lines of IB's post--take some photos now from a variety of angles but in B&W. For 2 reasons--will help emphasize the structural forms and may suggest ideas, and also may provide cool historical "prints'--in B&W, or sepia--for your inside decor.

There hasn't been a discussion about how much maintenance time this garden can take up. It's one thing to talk about how nice this would look as the framework for a formal perennial garden. It's another to do the work to maintain that garden.

In this climate, which is wetter but not drastically different, anything that can't be mowed can become problematic from a maintenance perspective because it has to be hand weeded instead. I remember several years ago when somebody here pointed out that this includes no-mow grasses because the weeds can grow much higher than the grass and to look decent have to be cut back/removed to even things up.

There are a lot of ways to do things on the cheap. *Getting* the groundcover to cover this space doesn't strike me as nearly as big an obstacle as *weeding* the stupid thing.

don't doll it up with a barrage of landscape elements. You have a unique landscape structure in the foundation pillars. I would sow or sod grass all around, maybe one or two pillars with a small flower bed with impatiens in them. We professionals are also guilty of hiding one architectural feature with another. Those pillars a multiple focal points and are points of great interest. Sherman Runions, ASLA

Several of you have mentioned we should not use English Ivy as a groundcover. I just keep seeing Ivy growing around the ground and (partially) up the pillars in this area. I can understand not using ivy in a garden bed with other plantings or in a location where invasiveness is a concern, but I honestly don't understand why that would be a bad idea in this situation. Would someone please explain its shortcoming to me. I'm not trying to be difficult or argumentative, I would just like to know. Thanks.

Kim - just a guess, but I think people farther south than us (ie Z5), find ivy a big invasive problem.

I think the site 'demands' Ivy. It would give it that ancient, forgotten look.

Kim, the idea of using english ivy is not a bad idea as lonas you use the right variety. If you use the species your pillars will soon disappear.
Use the variety Anne Marie or Baltica. Their growing height is about 12". Google them. They would look interesting growing partially up the stones. Still feel the my idea above is more preferable. Sherman

Here in central Pa, there are unfortunately many deserted, ruined farmsteads. Unfortunate in that so much of the beautiful farmland is being "developed". It seems so rampant that very soon this will all disappear. Only subdivisions and malls for miles in any direction. Your home and property are beautiful and that the barn "ruin" was left is truly amazing. You've obviously worked hard to achieve all that is presented in your pictures. It's beautiful!
Many years ago the city of Philadelphia discovered the foundations of Ben Franklin's home - only the foundation. Because they couldn't possibly reconstruct the home, they erected an "outline" in steel of the home's dimensions. Along that line, I was wondering if placing some trellis panels between some of the post footings to provide a shelter and an impression of barn walls - perhaps to block winter prevailing winds. There are pictures of old barns and their interiors on the web. I searched and found pix of walls and doors of stalls that would make useful, complementary trellis panels - not the usual 6x6 squares or diamonds. Also some pictures show uprights that have "y"-shaped brackets at the top evidently to support a roof overhang. I'm certainly not suggesting that the whole outline be placed, just an appropriate area, perhaps to view the gardens in winter or on a sultry summer day.
Since many barn ruins are seen falling down at the edges of meadows, I wondered if native plants would help the mood like Virginia creeper or native scarlet honeysuckle (Lonicera sempervirens) or clematis on the trellises, or clambering over the footings, Alleghany spurge for ground cover, etc.
There are so many thoughtful responses here from experienced, creative people for your consideration. What an engaging way to spend a long cold winter.
I hope you'll post updates on what you decided to do and the project's progress.

My neighbor's have ivy as a groundcover under a planting of evergreens. I wouldn't use it based on their experience for two reasons. One is that about half the time it winterburns badly, and takes several months to get back to looking halfway decent. The other is that we have enough wild woods around that poison ivy is a significant weed problem. It's hard enough to find it and pull it out of periwinkle. Finding it growing through ivy is much more difficult. My neighbor is lucky in that he isn't particular susceptible to poison ivy. I am, and really can't tolerate it in my beds.

This old barn foundation played an important part in the decision to purchase the land. Now...you are talking about covering up those sculptural stones, each one a gem...with ivy or other plant growth? Doesn't make sense to me! An idea:
1. Even out the barn interior with top soil. Do this right over the present grass which is well established and should, in most spots, keep growing. Sow grass seed.

2. Form a square of flat rock around the smallest interior pillar in center of barn. Eye size of square after finishing this next project.

3. Go over property with a metal detector searching for buried farm implements; horseshoes, single trees, etc. If none are found search flea markets/Craig's List for this type of thing. When a number of such items have been found, take them to a welder who can put them together in an amorphous sculpture which should be installed on that smallest rock around which a stone square will be installed. Add a simple bench. Plan finished. Call it a sculpture/meditation garden.

My friends and I at work today look over your posting. We all agree that the foundation looks mystical and worth keeping. I was looking at some of the pillars and this time it reminded me of Easter Island sculptures. maybe you can have someone carve a design in them? I also like the idea of going over the area with a metal detector. Anyway I really like your land. it is very beautiful. I hope you find other treasures on there as well