I love the longhorns, wish that there were more here in New England. It seems to me, from their type, and the fact that they're a natural breed, developed almost from feral stock, that they're not the most efficient meat producers. Nothing wrong with that, and I appreciate them strictly for their ornamental beauty, but it sure would be nice if such a large animal had more of a utilitarian purpose as well. JMO.

Thier meat is healthier for you than chicken,very lean.I dont know where you heard that.Theyre same size as any other cattle.

Same size, as in height, maybe, but body structure, muscle mass, etc, is completely different than the common improved beef breeds such as angus, galloway or hereford. I don't doubt that they produce lean beef, but I'd like to see some references which state that it's healthier than chicken.

You need to do some reserch........I raise longhorns I think I know by now wht the differences are in cattle.Do you/?Theres been lots chasngesin longhorns over the years.do some reading before you make false staterments.HOw many do you own how many have you raised.?????This is why i left Farm forum people like PAtrick,shoot off thier mouth have no idea what theyre spouting about.

How long ya been at it bulldink?

I raised Highland for some years, both a registered herd and a purebred non registered herd. They have been touted to be of healthier meat too but that probably only means leaner, of course when fed up on corn, not much diff!
The only wat I made money on them was selling breeding stock, when the market for that became less enticing with growing numbers I began to outcross which did produce a better suited animal with a quicker finish and more attractive carcass. Then went to purebred Murray Grays. There have been several herds of LH in the area, They are nice but there are much better breeds for a strictly beef enterprise. Yes, I have seen some of the genetics which are improved LH and there is quite a difference from the "old west type" Longhorn cattle. That comes from introducing genetics of other breeds to improve finish and growth potential.

Wow, it's too bad that you chose to get so uptight and offended. That wasn't my intent, and if you'll go back, you'll see that I wrote that I love your breed. No, I do not have any longhorns, however I do know a fair amount about beef type, and I'm sorry, compared to the breeds that I mentioned, and others, longhorns just do not have it. I do not know anyone who wants to raise a calf for beef who would purposely choose a longhorn. Their type is just not built for efficient grain or grass to beef conversion. That's not a slam on the breed, it's just an honest acknowledgement of their limitations, because they were not selectively bred to be high producers. Their type was developed by natural selection pressures, resulting in a lean, active animal that survived on the range, and on the long drives. Angus and others probably would never do as well in those conditions, but they're made to make meat, not to exist in a semi feral state.

I have no doubt that there have been changes over the years, some to include selection for better beef type, but since the breed associations have only been formed since the 1960's, when they finally decided that the breed was in trouble, it is not a very long time to make improvements, at least up to the level of the angus, etc. Correct me if I'm wrong on this, but I believe that horns are still the trait given the most importance in the breed, and so are selected for, above any other characteristic.

Even the Dixons still place high value on horns in their modern Longhorns.

And why wouldn't they? Is anything more beautiful out in a pasture? Certainly not those British Longhorns. A different breed altogether, but hideous, grotesque looking animals IMO, IMO, IMO.
Bush has longhorns on his ranch, doesn't he? Goes to show that he has at least some sense.

Easy does it y'all, I am looking a longhorns to run with my buffalo. The two look like they will go good together. Neither require grain which will put fat on the meat, which will make the meat very healthy. Current beef breeds are produced currently for fast weight gain, and I am not looking for that but healthy beef. You cannot cook it like regular meat or it will be like cardboard.

As for the Bush remark, I don't think this is a political forum.

Tell me about your buffalo.Theres a fellow near us that raise them.HE was attacked by one big bull about n a year and a half ago.HE was in pretty bad shape.HE has quite a herd.
The longhorns could be dangerous too usually docile but once in awhile we get one a little wild.You have to be on your toes at all times never know.we enjoy the longhorns alot of fun,beautiful.They are know for ease in birthing.we are in it for horn growth.long and thick.Some of those we call pencil horn i dont like to see.I Have a steer a big ole guy ,his horns are like 64" TT,

There are many traits longhorns have that ake them valuable,many more than horn.Their build,head,neck,blood line not just horn.

As someone who was in the feeding/packing business I can honestly tell you that the color of the hide and the size of the horns matter very little to me. (Once they are killed and hanging on the rail, it is hard to tell what breed they are.) What matters most is the amount of feed to growth conversion I am getting. The other is how my meat grades out. Until recently USDA Prime brought one helluva a lot more than grass feed cutter grade, then all of a sudden the band wagon got rolling on how much healthier grass feed beef is for you. While I haven't seen the actual studies by any major medical center on this, all I can say is "fat is fat". It really doesn't matter what puts it on the animal, it still has an effect upon the human that consumes it.

I think the Longhorn is a great breed, but don't go giving it some magically qualities it doesn't have. It does the same thing all beef breeds do; it eats grass at one end, craps green at the other and makes meat in between.

Bigdually, thought you might want to look up and read some stories on a fellow by the name of James "Scotty" Phillips. He was a Scots immigrant who came to this country in the late 1800's. He wound up settling in South Dakota, and had one of the first Bison ranches in the U.S. In fact the national Bison reserve is part of his place. The articles I read on him started out telling about him sending some bulls down to Mexico for Bison/Bull fights. (The buff knocked the spanish bulls on thier cans every time!) He even experimented with raising cattalo, but gave up on it in order to concentrate on his Bison. He was a very promienent rancher, even raising a seperate herd of longhorns.

I just recently read something of that guy and shipping the buffs to Mexico, it might have been in 'True West" magazine?

I dont recognize a difference in hide color either but the Japanese sure do, just watch what they buy off the rail in a packing house, black beef, hogs and they like the black poultry also even the black fleshed chickens. It used to be a 10 cent per pound premium live wt.

Great point Fancifowl. Very interesting Bulldinkie of your color genetics also.

Bulldinkie - have you pulled the yurt(is that right) out yet?

That doesnt say much for Japanese they eat everything that walks.Not too picky.
Roxann-NO WE have barns and lean to's,Have you?

Bulldinkie - I was referring to a memory about you moving the family to a 'tent' like home after warmer weather came about - I WASN'T REFERRING TO THE LONGHORNS, LOL, but people! too funny.

Guess that would be fancy housing for the longhorns!

Bulldink, I conclude you have much to learn!about a lot! Have fun w/ your LHs.

NO HERE in the north we live in homes.houses..If you live in a YURT and youre not sure thats what its called go for it.NOW GO take care of your birdies Ill take longhorns anyday.Youre soooooooooooooo smart, wow......you dont need to learn anything I can see that.

FF, I think that the Japanese people would tend to agree with your conclusion.

I've raised beef cattle for about 65 years now. Several different breeds. If you want to see the relative value of different breeds, spend some time at a local sale barn. I can tell you that longhorns are at the bottom of the price range, along with holstein steers. There is a reason for that.

I'm at work at the local feed store and just recived a call 6 Longhorns got out at a ranch down creek from the store. The rancher asked me to keep an eye out incase they came down the creek. I guess I'll notice them if they go by. LOL

You can only see um in profile, head on or azz going they're so narrow you'll miss em!

NOW, NOW, NOW. It isn't nice to pick on the misfortunate in the world. The poor old longhorn learned to get by in one of the most unforgiving of environments, the only problem is they never learned to do better when placed into better ones.

I dont know how you figure that.we had a bull here he was only 2 years old.In one day at the longhorn sale made over 100 thousand IN ONE DAY FROM SEMEN SALE......Misfortunate I think not!!!!!!!.You need to look up like Dickenson cattle co.in Ohio.for instance sales of some of these longhorns.We have one with black horns theyreworth more.I wasnt gonna answer this but.I thought maybe if I suggest you look up some info to see these longhorns as they arent the same as the first cattle brought into the US ,breeding for better,healthier,beautiful,genenetics aaaaallllllll has changed.As I said before read up before you answer something you have no idea about.The famous Bulls name is "SUE"

The longhorns you see at sale barns arent the longhorns Im talking about those are mutts they use them mainly for roping.The longhorns I have and most have you wont find at a barn sale.You go to longhorn shows and sales for these.They arent gonna sell a 75,000 longhorn at a sale barn.......agree??

Also mine are all registered,branded,with papers.You wont find those in a sale barn.COMMENTS????????????

I admit that there are some improved LHs and they are different from the unimproved types. I also know that some get to local auctions, not all are breeding quality of course that doesnt mean the culls arent passed off to onknowing buyers. I bred highland and Murray Grays, I did send some to the sale barn or to the butcher because they were defective in some way. I see highlands now which are "improved" for faster gains on feeds which to me is going to eventually ruin the quality of the breed which makes it different and applicable to less than good conditions.
I'm sure you are proud of your cattle, everyone likes to promote their favorite breed, bragging up their desirable characteristics, conveniently not mentioning their down side or less desirable traits. Me too.

Oh bulldinkie. You ever hear the saying that there are some people who just don't get it? You're one, I'm afraid. FF gets it, so does ksfarmer, and so do I. We have gone to pains to describe what we're talking about, the FACT that longhorns are just not bred to be an EFFICIENT or high volume meat producing animal. Your so blinded by your breed loyalty that you cannot open your mind to even try to understand what it is we're talking about, and it has nothing to do with putting down the longhorns. It's just an honest evaluation of what they are and what they aren't.

You talk about quality, high cost genetics, but taken out of context, the word has little meaning. You certainly don't understand it's usage in this case. It has little to do with comparing registered animals to sale barn stuff.

Hey Patrick,,, maybe its like the guy who traded two $5,000 cats for a $10,000 dog. ??

I must confess that I'm a little slow on the uptake on this one. I don't get you're meaning, because as you describe it, it would seem like a fair trade.

Although, IMO, most dogs are worth at least $10,000, while one cat at 5 grand? I've spent some considerable sums on quality animals in my time, but it would have to take a heck of a change in my state of sanity for that one to happen. Yes, now all the cat lovers can hate me too.

Well, on second thought, the thread has been focusing on the value of an animal that has good feed to meat conversion.......oh, never mind. I can't go there.

Have at me. I'll be on vacation for a while.

Patrick NH,

Your wrong about Longhorns not being efficient. The have a higher feed conversion ratio than anyother breed and can do it on lower quality feed. Their meat is also healthier than chicken in many aspects. They need 20 % less feed than other breeds. Other breeds work better in feedlots, but I know feedlot owners who buy Longhorn/Longhorn cross calves because they do make them money.

I've been around cattle all my life and Longhorns work the best for me.

Bobg

Thank you Bob.......Seems there are a few chicky breeders that seem to know alot about cows not.....

Are the cross calves polled? most feeder guys around the East dont like horns in their lots.

Highland are supposed to take less feed and be more efficient also. mine ate weeds and brambles as well as good grass, they just take 10 months longer to finish; now crossed to a Hereford or Angus, whole nuther story + all the calves are polled from the dominant polled gene. But then there is not much sale for the hornless heAD! I used to get 100 bucks for a nicely horned green skull.

I hope I don't upset Bulldinkie, again, but you don't eat hide or horns and I found out a long time ago what matters most in my lot is the number days and the amount of feed it takes to get the greatest amount of USDA Prime beef on the rail. The longhorn you are describing is a rich man's hobby breed, it is not a beef breed worth my time to look at. I found out the hard way, a long time ago, that certain breeds are not worth even running into the lot. We had a lot of Holstein cross steers we bought cheap one spring. Those calves cost us more in the long run than they were worth! We took so much time to get frame on them before we could start putting on beef it was almost two years for us to get them to grade out high enough to get the best prices. I'm afraid your longhorns are the same type cattle, but you can't understand my viewpoint.

Right now I'm AI'ing to an Angus. I run them on pasture as yearlings and then grain for 90 days. I've had very few that don't graded "Choice". I sell whole, halves or quarters and have been getting $2.00/lb hanging weight. I have customers waiting until I have some ready and can't seem to supply the demand. The nutritional value of the meat is better than chicken and that's how I selling it.

Bobg

Bob, there ya go, its those Angus genetics!

What do you offer as proof of the better nutritional data??

When I sold out of the highlands I went to Murray Gray, now that is an animal of which I cant say enuff good things. genetically they are Angus. and usually they will bring the same premium as a black hide beef.

Unioncreek, we would buy stocker/feeders at 6 months, range them for 6, introduce them to feed and background them for at least another 3 and then dry lot them for 90 to 120 days. Our percentage rates was at least 75% USDA Prime, and the rest Choice. At our peak we were packing 1000 head per year. (What's your figures Bull?)

My preferred breeds are Angus/Hereford cross, pure Hereford, pure Shorthorn (beef type), and occaisionally a cross of one of them with a Charlois. The biggest problem with pure Charlois is they take too long to get enough frame, but once they have it they are excellent feeders. (Down side is most buyers don't want 300-350 lb sides.) My biggest problem with pure Angus is that they tend to fatten too early. You end up with a smaller side, which some buyers want, but the majority don't.

I'm not trying to say that Longhorns are for everyone. I do sell 300 - 350 pound sides, because most people don't have storage for large quantities of meat like they used to. If I can find the link for the nutritional value on Longhorn/Longhorn cross calves I will post it. the study what done in Texas comparing quite a number of straight bred and crossbred calves. Every breed has it place and I'm not solely stuck on Longhorns, if I had the opportunity to pick up better pasture I would. Most of my pasture is brush and little grass and the Longhorn thrives on it, plus I don't pay for pasture.

Mokevinb, Your still up there at 18 or 19 months to finish, that's where I finish at and do it for a lot less money. Generally you can't control your price you receive, but you can control your input costs.

Bobg

Mokevinb,

I can see that your pretty narrow minded about breeds that are not main stream, so this is the last response. I tried to post one of the nutritional charts for Longhorn meat versus other meat, hopefully it will come up. I haven't found the other chart comparing breeds yet.

Bobg

On the contrary. I think that he is very open minded. He tried multiple breeds and combinations, and finally learned what many never do, how to get an efficient producing animal.

Bob, you say that you finish at the same time, but at what efficiency rate and weight? You are crossing with angus, but conveniently forgetting how much they are contributing to your bottom line, instead attributing it all to the longhorns simply because you like them. That's an interesting chart. Even if it is true, your angus influence is affecting the percentages, and they will not be what is listed, yet you are pushing your product as longhorn beef, with the same health benefits that the chart would indicate. Isn't that dishonest? I would like to know if the chart compares longhorn beef that is raised on pasture to other breeds which are grain fed, because there is a big difference. You can take two animals of the same breed, feed one on pasture and finish the other in a dry lot, and get remarkably different cholesterol and other nutrition values in the meat. Are you even aware of this?

Agreed with Patrick, apples aren't being compared to apples here, in fact there seems to be a whole mish-mash. In particular, you simply can't compare profitability of sides of beef marketed direct from the farm with beef produced for the packer. Those of you who have the opportunity to grow and market for an enhanced niche should be congratulated for your efforts and success. I have no doubt you are producing a superior product. But for every farm-marketed side of beef in this country, there are 10,000 going through the packer, and there's no way to compare what you are doing, to the efficiencies required to produce a particular frame and finish for the feed lot or the packer. No matter how you look at it, TIME is an expensive input even if you're content to leave it out of the equation. Those of us who do not have the inclination to direct-market must necessarily look much harder at whether or not our cattle perform in the necessary frame, yield and time window.

As for our friend Bulldinkie -- I wish I had one cent for every time you've started a post with "We have Longhorns" in the past ?what's it been? 5 years here? Trust a few of us to remember, eh? The same thing I talked about above holds true for the "value" of the heads, necks and semen of your stock. You CAN'T compare earnings from showing and selling breeding stock to earnings on the rail. A very small percentage of the cattle-raising public own pedigreed breeding stock, even fewer show it. You yourself may sell to other people who want to breed, but in the end, somebody's gotta be buying the cattle for food. Otherwise it's a pyramid scheme. At the packer, your heads, necks and semen are waste. Dog food. Nobody here tried to say that your breeding stock wasn't valuable, just that your stance and reasoning didn't apply. Not apples to apples.

And Dink? Go back and read s-l-o-w-l-y what Roxann said. She wasn't making fun of you, wasn't insulting you. She was trying to be friendly, and trying to let you know she thought she remembered things you've talked about in the past that interested her. She was in your corner till you stomped her.

Now go ahead and stomp me.

Patrick, my comment about the cats and dog was a reference to an old joke about how two guys established a value on the animals. One wanted a dog and the other wanted cats, they could establish any value they wanted on the trade. Whether it was a relevant value in the real world made no difference. (Oh well, maybe you had to be there, :>) )
I do know of a few cattlemen in my area that like to breed their angus or hereford first calf heifers to a longhorn. Lots less calving difficulties with those small cross calves. I don't know of anyone who uses a longhorn bull on mature cows. Course "there ain't no accountin' for some peoples ideas". Guess I just always had to look too close at the bottom line, raising cattle wasn't no hobby on this place, they paid off the bankers (most years).

NO I chose to ignore you ,idiot...Ive had longhorns longer than what did you say 5 ....IF youre so damn smart how do you have time to nit pick what everybody says k all you want who givesa crap???

Thats the sort of post which will add to your stock!

Wow. Wow! I haven't been here in probably a year and the very first post, at the top of the page tells me that some people, er, I mean 'things' NEVER change.

Wow.

Leaving swiftly and watching the door as I leave ;).

Bobg, we had an inside track. We not only were feeding them out, we also owned the processing plant. (We were value added before that became a popular concept.) So we had a lot more control over prices to the consumer. There were times we were able to undercut the competition, but there were also times that we had to buy fat stock from other lots because the price on live weight was so much lower than what our on rail production prices were. So, I can honestly say, "Been there, done that, gotten a bloody nose a time or two and learned a few lessons."

Your chart is interesting. It shows to me that the Longhorn beef they are comparing is what I have often referred to as "Blue Bull." (It is due to the color of the carcass, after skinning.) Grass fed, non-fattened stock. While I am not a nutritionist I do know that fat has more calories per ounce than protein, and that cholestrol is tied directly to fat, so your chart lets me know that they weren't even comparing apples to oranges, it was more like apples to watermelons. Interesting data, but to the knowledgable a waste of time for gathering the data.

Patrick,

I sell them as Longhorn cross calves. That no more dishonest than selling "Certified Angus Beef" when all they have to be is 51% black hides, now that's deception. Longhorns have their place as well as other breeds, one is no better than another.

Bobg

The certified Angus thing is a 'Crock" for sure! Meaningless even.