Don't plant them in the soil if they're young or you're starting from seed. They need to be established plants, not young. You can work around this by sinking large pots into the ground with it's own soil and planting the young tomato plants in the pots.

OK, I'll have to take your word for it. And thank you. I've started seedlings outside, they are up and am waiting for their true leaves to prick them out into bigger pots, so it's not worth risking it.

I see they have a tomato forum. This is fine, all I needed to know.

Now the problem of sinking pots there is I don't like digging any more big holes than I have to, then I have MORE yucky dirt to dispose of (it's heavy in the wastebaskets I throw it in until I can find somebody who can lift them and dump it somewhere, PLUS that stoop fell apart several years ago, has been repaired, and who knows how many brick chunks are down in there?

So I'd be better off putting them in big containers above ground. What do you people use? Can I use my tomato cages (cheapies, the smaller ones) in them?

Getting them above ground, they would pick up some sun faster when they get taller. If people grow them in 5-gal buckets, how big of a hole do you drill in the bottom or several?

I got a little late start on them, hope it wasn't too late, an afterthought to get the seeds with some others on ebay. That was zinnia Enchantress Rose I got, couldn't find it anywhere but on ebay, so I bought a few more packets of stuff from the seller because they were so cheap.

aliska

Violet is right about not planting your tomatoes in the soil but you really don't need to dig any holes. You could get six large (5-gallon) buckets and cut a large hole in the bottom. Set them right on top of your soil and fill them with planting mix to set your plants in. The roots will grow down into the soil, bricks and all.

Those small tomato cages aren't going to be big enough for Big Boy tomatoes. Instead, I'd recommend a sturdy trellis at least 6 feet tall or taller resting on the ground and attached to or staked right next to your porch. Tie your tomato plants to it as they grow. That should do fine!

The only reason I suggested sinking the pots into the soil is to keep the soil temp down so you don't have to water as much.

:)

I found the receipt so I'm taking the tomato cages back.

Yes, I sink my rose cuttings in plastic cups in the ground, so that makes sense, but those pots are just too big.

I guess I'm going to have to suck it up and cut through some turf in the back yard. Ugh. More heavy work I don't need. All because I'm stubborn and like my own tomatoes. I can get them a lot easier and probably cheaper at the Farmer's Market.

What might grow where that sunflower mess is besides morning glories and weeds? It's really a nice spot for something.

Violet

The only problem with putting an open-bottomed planter in a hole is that the soil in the planter is usually more porous or less dense than the soil surrounding the container if you use a good planting medium. This effectively makes the sunken container a bowl and waterlogs the container soil when the outside soil is overly wet. Often the plant roots are suffocated by so much water and lack of soil aeration. (See some of tapla's posts in container gardening.) I'd rather add water myself than be unable to do anything about the water that's already there! Of course, it depends on the surrounding soil itself. What's important is the water-flow downward through watering and upward through root action that does not interfere with soil aeration. What I do is mulch and then water the ground around the base of the open-bottomed containers so the roots will grow down into the earth and have access to the water and nutrients there. If the top soil in the container looks dry, I water that, too.

If aliska has lots and lots of sunflower hulls on top of the soil, they can act as a mulch for the earth around the containers.

I guess it's a choice one would make depending on the circumstances.

That's right, every situation is different, so it's up to forum members to add to the threads so that the original poster can make an informed decision. Unless the soil at the depth of pot drainage is solid clay, they usually don't get waterlogged in my experience. My soil is mostly clay and I still don't have a problem because we have lots of rocks which contribute to drainage.

aliska

To what "chemicals" do you refer that have leached through the soils in your sunflower/morning glory area? If they're toxic chemicals, then of course you shouldn't plant edibles there. But I can't think of any toxic chemicals in bird seed -- that would kill the birds! I do know that in the last few years, bird seed has been "degerminated" to keep the spillovers from sprouting under bird feeders. Many is the millet seedling I've had to pull from under mine.

If you don't want to plant edibles there, then anything that thrives in the sun will do, shrubs, bushes, or flowers. It's up to you.

It's in reference to the allelopathic nature of sunflowers.

"Sunflower seed, leaves and stems emit substances that inhibit the growth of certain other plants. They should be separated from potatoes and pole beans. Where sunflower seeds are regularly used as bird feed, toxins from the accumulated seed hulls eventually kill the grass below. Harmless to animals or people, the toxins eventually biodegrade in the soil."

More inhibitors...

* Potatoes inhibit growth of tomatoes and squash
* Beans inhibit growth of onions
* Broccoli inhibits growth of tomatoes
* Carrots inhibit growth of dill
* Sunflowers inhibit growth of potatoes & beans

Here is a link that might be useful: Plenty of Evidence Regarding Allelopathic Sunflowers

Ah, that must be what aliska meant then. Though beans and potatoes probably wouldn't grow well in the area with all those sunflower hulls, there shouldn't be any problems growing tomatoes there, right?

Actually, I wish I had a place right outside a door where I could go pick a tomato. :-) I bring my tomato containers as close as possible but still have to walk a bit.

I suppose I don't have much to lose by raking off the worst of the hulls and planting them there anyway. Alleopathic, that's the toxin I meant; anney was right. And I googled that list last night.

I've got a stepladder trellis all painted and just need to get the stakes on it. I suppose I could dig out a smallish patch in the back yard and use that for support, was going to tumble morning glories over it. That's about the only alternative I can come up with that doesn't require major digging. If it were just that, it wouldn't be such a big deal, but I've six more roses coming and a cherry tree I will probably have to replant, probably better to do it this year if I can find a mate that matches the other.

Again, as I mentioned above, don't plant young seedlings in that soil, tomatoes or otherwise. It will affect young plants.

OK, I'm going to try to have a raised bed made in the back.

I want to plant something there, not wait forever, so I'll do a trial run with several different kinds of seeds and see what happens, let one tomato plant grow on, then put it there. I should have way more than I need. I'll use seeds I don't care too much about. Maybe an extra rose I root that I can spare I'll try there. See what happens.

I cleaned up the worst of it this morning and threw it in the lawn trash bag.

violet,

Carrots inhibit dill? My dill that was supposed to be 3 feet tall (said on the package) ended up nearly 6 feet tall, and with massive stalks (even after I planted it waaaay late). All this even with carrots planted all around its base. I wonder how it would have done had I not planted the carrots?
I guess the inhibitors are just guidelines. :-)

op,

You could plant in pots and sink them only halfway in the soil. You don't need to water as often and you avoid having the whole pot get saturated in wet conditions. Or you could just plant in the soil, I would bet that the soil is pretty good under all that hull-mulch.
If you're still worried, apply some compost and organic mulch, organic matter is an excellent buffer for what ails your soil.

cheers,
Kyle

Kyle, I will plant in pots if I have to, but yesterday I scratched the area up with one of those tools with the long fangs lol, cultivator? and scattered a bunch of partial shade mix and Gaillardia seeds and watered them. Then I will see if they come up and/or act sickly.

So I'm not even sure where to put the pots lol. Plus tonight I went curb shopping and found a Jenny Lind baby crib which I need for a makeshift trellis because I'm going to have extra climbing roses I don't know what to do with.

While I was scratching, I noticed there were some seeds buried in that soil that had sprouted, had no idea what they were or if they would have emerged topside, big sprouts.

I still don't know what to do with the tomatoes, am trying to figure the right spot in the back yard, told the people who are doing some landscaping for me that I would like a small raised bed for a few veggies and herbs since they will be tilling another area. I don't know if they will get it tilled in time or if there is an area that gets enough sun. I could easily put them on the big area I'm having posts sunk and arches erected and tilled, but don't want to get them in the way of that work.

I need more room!

Kyle,

Depends on the stage of each plant and at what time they're planted. Just do a search on allelopathy and you'll find info.

How's it going aliska12000?

Hi violet (one of my favorite flowers, the outdoor kind).

I feel like I am running kind of an experiment. Scattered a partial shade mix in the problem area and am buying a more expensive bird food with the sunflowers already hulled.

The shade mix had a lot of crabgrass in it, that took off lol, but I kept at it and have most of it picked out, same with weeds. Not being familiar with what is in that mix, I will have to wait and see, wanted some of those gallardia (sp?) daisies, too, which I planted. The plants are very loosely rooted because the soil is really too loose, but are nice and green, don't want to stand up too straight, so maybe it will be a wash. I'm hoping they will root deeper as they mature. But maybe since they are probably perennials, they will surprise me next year, just got done watering them.

I found a guy with a small tractor who I had plow me a long strip in the backyard where my daughter helped me plant 21 tomatoes, we caged them but with the cheaper cages, and my neighbor lent me about a 100' long soaker hose which is a godsend. I had read pros and cons about those, but pressure is maintained all along the line which makes 3 turns through the row. The tomatoes I started from seed and transplanted into 16 oz plastic cups w/drainage holes are running a little late but are starting to set fruit and many blossoms, the area gets full sun in the morning and late afternoon sun in parts of it, so we'll see how that works out. Nice healthy plants and grew tall and straight by starting them myself and getting them into sun in the front yard, was so relieved to get them in the ground. I was in tears thinking I was going to have to give them all away on freecycle after all that work.

Next year, I plan to put a mass planting of the same kind of rose there mixed with perennials, so I'll be back to square 1 if I want to do tomatoes lol because so much of my small yard is shaded by my beloved trees, and I wish I could have more of those lol. I have 25 redbud seedlings, now my sister wants some, so it will work out somehow. I can only use about 3 at the most of those if I can get them through the winter. They are ready to move into larger pots now.

Maybe I'll be burned out on tomatoes by then, and it's cheap to buy them at the farmer's market at certain times to can, but it always gave me satisfaction growing my own. And I don't eat very many lol. I won't mind giving what I can't use away and hope they give me enough fruit to can and hope I have the energy to do it.

There is nothing to compare with home-canned tomatoes imo. Maybe it's the glass jars instead of the metal cans. It seems to me that commercial producers are using a lot of Roma tomatoes, probably because they can buy them cheaper (I don't know, we have a Heinz close to here that used a good tomato for their products), and Romas are good for certain things, but others are much better for canning imo.

Thanks for your interest.