TheMasterGardener1, I am not convinced that it is a strong consideration in Landscaping and Maintenance.
In commercial agriculture it is gaining momentum because improving the amino acid content of a crop like maize has a benefit in (mal)nutrition of humans.
On the other hand such enhacement is accomplished by genetic engineering and there is widespread pushback to this concept.
The continuing controversy over Golden Rice is a good example.
http://www.goldenrice.org/

Thanks for your thoughts.

MG1,

I have been using Roots Excelurator from House and Garden with excellent results. They have just released a new product based upon Amino content:

{{gwi:55537}}

DESCRIPTION:

"""Amino Treatment is a revolutionary new product containing high quality silica and amino acids that encourages root development, vegetative growth, and fruit and flower production. Amino acids help increase chlorophyll concentration in the plant, leading to a higher degree of photosynthesis. This makes crops lush and green, increasing plant vigor and overall yields.

Amino Treatment contains a balanced complex of ingredients such as small silicate particles that are much smaller than those that you find in normal silicon. Silicon provides greater tolerance of environmental stresses, such as cold, heat, drought, salinity, mineral toxicity or deficiency. Plants incorporate silicon into their cell wall, forming a protective barrier against harmful pathogens and parasites. Increased levels of silicon protect your plants from stress, heat, and disease while providing building blocks that increase the quality and quantity of your harvest.

Adding Amino Treatment provides a better distribution of leaves, a higher ratio of photosynthesis, robust stems, increased root zone activity, higher quality and quantity of fruits and higher sugar content. Incorporate Amino Treatment into your nutrient schedule to produce stronger, healthier plants with massive root systems and increased resistance to pests and disease. Add Amino Treatment with every watering until three weeks before harvest."""

I am looking forward to trying it on my indoor tomatoes this Winter:

{{gwi:55538}}
Raybo

rnewste,

I thank you so much for showing that, nice set up by the way ;)

The reason why science furthur progresses is because of people who are not closed minded. I see you found a product that you stand by because it has REAL results that increase your overall yield per sqaure foot. This proves in alot of circumstances with higher value crops (like above ^) that you will recieve an overall higher return in your investment with the Amino products. I have talked about this subject before, alot where saying that it is a markiting technique used by companies to sell lol ;)

No, I think it is science. ;)

I'm not making a judgment about the product, only an observation that any logical thinker might readily make as well. To note: Raybo said that he used product 'A' (root accelerator) with good results, and is "looking forward to trying product 'B'". I'm pretty sure this means he hasn't yet tried product B, and that the information he posted is the manufacturer's advertising hype (all manufacturers and packagers hype their product to the max, so people will believe and buy). Because it fits very well with what you WANT to believe, you claim it as solid science. Not only that, but you leave the impression that you believe anyone who doesn't swallow the whole hook, must be lacking an open mind.

In reality, a healthy dose of skepticism is a good thing. If it wasn't, we'd all believe what it says on the Superthrive bottle and we would be completely dependent on the miracles within. How would science be advanced and our effort:results ratio improved if we took everything every manufacturer wrote about their product at face value?

The reason it was noted in previous intercourse with you that what you posted was marketing technique, is because it was. You copy/pasted advertising hype directly from the manufacturer's website describing their own product, claiming it as proof positive that the product does/will do all it says it will do.

I think we need to keep our feet firmly on the ground. There is NOTHING that can make a plant grow any better than what it's genetic code allows. The VERY BEST we can do is to eliminate or reduce the effects of those things that limit growth. Nothing in the way of a 'miracle concoction' can possibly make a plant grow better unless it is reducing or eliminating the effects of a limitation. The best progress in that area can be had by getting the basics right - THEN worrying about tweaking and fine tuning.

The following should sound familiar, and it's extremely close to dead on:

Tap water is a revolutionary product containing high quality hydrogen and oxygen and other important ingredients that act together to encourage root development, vegetative growth, and fruit and flower production. Tap water helps increase chlorophyll concentration in the plant, leading to a higher degree of photosynthesis. This makes crops lush and green, increasing plant vigor and overall yields.

Tap water contains a balanced complex of ingredients such as small inorganic particles that are much smaller than those that you find in some other types of water. Tap water provides greater tolerance of environmental stresses, such as cold, heat, drought, salinity, mineral toxicity or deficiency. Plants incorporate water into their cell wall, forming a protective barrier against harmful pathogens and parasites. Increased levels of water protect your plants from stress, heat, and disease while providing building blocks that increase the quality and quantity of your harvest.

Tap water provides a better distribution of leaves, a higher ratio of photosynthesis, robust stems, increased root zone activity, higher quality and quantity of fruits and higher sugar content. Incorporate tap water into your nutrient schedule to produce stronger, healthier plants with massive root systems and increased resistance to pests and disease. Use tap water for every watering until harvest.

Al

The requirement of amino acids in essential quantities is well known as a means to increase yield and overall quality of crops.
The application of amino acids for foliar use is based on its requirement by plants in general and at critical stages of growth in particular. Plants absorb Amino Acids through Stomas and is proportionate to environment temperature.
Amino Acids are fundamental ingredients in the process of Protein Synthesis. About 20 important Amino Acids are involved in the process of each function. Studies have proved that Amino Acids can directly or indirectly influence the physiological activities of the plant.
"Amino Acids are also supplied to plant by incorporating them into the soil. It helps in improving the microflora of the soil thereby facilitating the assimilation of nutrients.
Foliar Nutrition in the form of Protein Hydrolysate (Known as Amino Acids Liquid) and foliar spray provide readymade building blocks for Protein synthesis. "

source: www.priyachem.com/effect.htm

I dont think this is a fertilizer company but I could be wrong ;)

Again, like said above I am not saying go out in get some Amino Acids, I am showing that the application of amino acids can increase your return making it a part of fertilizer ECONOMICS. There are companies that include them in their basic nutrient programs because of their chelating effects and many other reasons listed above.

PLANTS MAKE AMINO ACIDS BY THEMSELF.

Amino acid applications ballance respiration and photosynthesis in the high intensity growing environments (under HID lighting where an increasingly of food comes from today)where the rate of respiration can exceed photosynthesis rate.

The application of Amino Acids are used by many traditional farms.

Stress such as High temperature, Low humidity, Frost, Pest
attack, Hailstorm, Floods have a negative effect on plant
metabolism with a corresponding reduction in crop quality
and quantity.

"The APPLICATION of Amino Acids before, during and after the stress conditions supplies the plants with Amino Acids which are directlyrelated to stress physiology and thus has a preventing and recovering effect."

Like stated above.

WOW I learned so much about tap water. ;)

This might help. The proof.

" On the other hand, the overall improvement in plant growth parameters and yield due to application of
amino acids may be due to providing readily source of growing substances which form the constitutes of
protein in the living tissues. Generally, Amino acids were found to increase number of flowers, fruit setting
and fruit yield (Neeraja et al., 2005). The positive effects of amino acids application may be brought about
by its cell-internal function as osmo-regulatory (Treichel, 1975) since it is very soluble in water therefore
increase the concentration of cellular osmotic components. Application of amino acids (proline) was reported
to improve plant growth and production under saline conditions (Hafez, 2001). Mixture of amino acids proved
to be effective in improving plant growth under abiotic stress (Tantawy, 2007)."

"It could be concluded that the application of micronutrients mixed with some alcoholic sugar forms or
amino acids can stimulate the performance of green bean with preferable effect for the alcoholic sugar mix."

www.insipub.com/ajbas/2011/june-2011/51-55.pdf

If you choose to read the article at the bottom they listed many sources.

Its been a scientific study for a long time now. If you read the information on the link you will see studies that PROVE my point.

I just never knew tap water was so good!!!! ;)

I think I further found what happend was the green beans got tricked or "sold" into growing quiker by some companies fertilizer Amino acid product, there is just no other way to explain these TEST RESULTS. Tap water maybe?

If the lack of amino acids were holding back plant growth, then the increase in amino acids
would improve plant growth.

But if the plants are already producing amino acids and receiving the nutrients they need,
then the addition of amino acids (or any other nutrient) will not "force" more growth.

Josh

I wrote an email to a big fertilizer company (northern california, think lots of fog) that makes all the best this and that for growing plants, even an organic line, which is why I emailed them. He wrote me a really nice email back explaining all that goes into using those products properly. i.e. a controlled environment, testing sugar production and using gadgets that I would never own, they are trying to time everything perfectly. Bottom line, he told me to save my money, find a really good mix I liked to plant my plants in, get a good completed fertilizer and don't over water. It all made sense when he explained it. He forgot to answer my organic question so I called, he called me back and I was actually surprised he didn't recommend to use organic fertilizer in my container plants, because when they use them in the hydroponic greenhouses they are controlling everything, and that can't be done outside in a container.

My point is, if you read everything on their web site about their products you'd think you could feed the world with your garden, but after talking with this guy that was really nice and straight forward with me, I could see there is a really big difference in what I"m doing and what their doing with their high tech equipment, fertilizers and tonics.

So, I mixed me up the best mix I could for my uses, poured it in fabric pots, planted veggies in them, used a good complete fertilizer, and didn't over water. I grew the best veggies I ever have, and the most.

I think I'm starting to understand that quote "keep it simple stupid" :-)

Jerry

I heartily agree, Jerry; and that is what I alluded to when I noted above, "There is NOTHING that can make a plant grow any better than what it's genetic code allows. The VERY BEST we can do is to eliminate or reduce the effects of those things that limit growth. Nothing in the way of a 'miracle concoction' can possibly make a plant grow better unless it is reducing or eliminating the effects of a limitation. The best progress in that area can be had by getting the basics right - THEN worrying about tweaking and fine tuning."

Concentrating first on eliminating or reducing to the greatest degree possible the limiting effects of the very basic things - soil choice, watering habits, temperature, light, and nutrition, is going to have by far the most significant impact on your ability to produce healthy plants and good yields. Allowing the limiting effects of less than ideal conditions in these areas, and depending on something a little like a miracle to 'make up for' the shortcomings, is bound to be an exercise in futility. This is in essence the same advice that Jerry received, in paraphrase.

Al

When it comes to gardening, economics is the first thing on my mind, how much can I produce for how little. I focas on growing the plants with in their means in a "cheap" way, this insures I get more out of the garden that I put in. I totaly can agree with Al in that I dont use a Amino product anymore.

This may help:

example;/// A farmer buys an amino product (-3) he usued it on his crop and found the crop yield produced (+47) more.

He found the use of the product payed itself off and added +44 total "units".

^ Can this help understanding? the number are units examples.

In conclusion Amino Acids apllication is practiced by many large farms, and by home gardeners.

Again, I have to agree with Al on eliminating effect of limitation. As I stated the application of Amino acids before and after frost, heat or pest attck, THESE ARE THINGS WE CANT CONTROL.

I UNDERSTAND Macro/micro nutrients are the building block of the plants but there are clearly more things that effect growth. I have to agree Dyno-gro is the best company for the reason that they provide every needed micro nutrients that a plant would ever need.

I WILL ADMIT THE COMPANY THAT DOES INCLUDE AMINOS FOR FREE INTO THEIR 3-PART FERTILIZER DOES NOT HAVE THE SAME AMOUNT OF NUTRIENTS THAT DYNO-GRO PRODUCTS HAVE.

From science/experience I understand (along with many other) that Amino Acids change the way plant grow.

"There is NOTHING that can make a plant grow any better than what it's genetic code allows"

It should really be, We can only HOPE to grow a plant up to it's genetic code coming close to that is what we hope to do. HOW COULD YOU GROW A PLANT PAST ITS OWN GENETIC CODE? LOL IM SORRY ;)
Thats like saying

Synthetic fertilizers "grow palnts past their genetic code". ???

Which or may not be true from the way your lookimg at it.

I think you missed the point entirely. No one is arguing for or against a particular product or methodology.

I must have missed something because there seems to be the inference that I might be suggesting that, "Synthetic fertilizers grow palnts past their genetic code. ???

Which or may not be true from the way your lookimg at it." [sic], which is the direct opposite of what I actually said: "I think we need to keep our feet firmly on the ground. There is NOTHING that can make a plant grow any better than what it's genetic code allows. The VERY BEST we can do is to eliminate or reduce the effects of those things that limit growth. Nothing in the way of a 'miracle concoction' can possibly make a plant grow better unless it is reducing or eliminating the effects of a limitation. The best progress in that area can be had by getting the basics right - THEN worrying about tweaking and fine tuning.

Al

Take it easy, folks!

I am just reporting that after using House and Garden's Roots Excelurator for the past 2 years, I see marked improvement in plant vigor, as compared to the time when I did not employ it. For reference, it is a BIG seller to those who grow "cash crops" and is a staple in all Hydro Shops.

House and Garden, based in Holland has a pretty strong following and as Amino Elements is one of their new products, I do not believe this is "snake-oil" as we sometimes see from other no-name Sellers.

While the Description looks promising, the proof will be in a controlled "A/B" comparison between containers with, and without its application. I am of a "glass-half-full" viewpoint that House and Garden would have done their field trials before attempting to sell a product which goes for $65.00 for a 250ml bottle.

I'll report my actual results sometime in the future.

Raybo

"There is NOTHING that can make a plant grow any better than what it's genetic code allows"

It should really be, We can only HOPE to grow a plant up to it's genetic code coming close to that is what we hope to do. HOW COULD YOU GROW A PLANT PAST ITS OWN GENETIC CODE? LOL IM SORRY ;)

Not sure why I stated this? It is the same thing. Sorry. ;)

"I WILL ADMIT THE COMPANY THAT DOES INCLUDE AMINOS FOR FREE INTO THEIR 3-PART FERTILIZER DOES NOT HAVE THE SAME AMOUNT OF NUTRIENTS THAT DYNO-GRO PRODUCTS HAVE."

I meant *Micro-Nutrients, I cant find another product that has more micro in it than the Dyno-gro line, I thank you for showing me that line Al. At first I overlooked, for quite a while, it really is a the best. I have not found a fertilizer that has all those micronutrients in it.

"I think you missed the point entirely. No one is arguing for or against a particular product or methodology."

Yea I know I just feel like people may think it is a waste of money and it is not at all.

Please dont think I am agruing, I really take joy in debates over new products, I am sure we all do.

I don't think your debating either MG, your just stating all the rhetoric that the fertilizer company's dish out. Your posting and arguing for something you say you don't even use, why? I think your missing the point, your comparing apples and oranges. What a farmer does to his fields has little to do with what goes on in my containers, (as the nice man at Humboldt Nutrients pointed out to me).

Jerry

Jerry said,

"your just stating all the rhetoric that the fertilizer company's dish out"

I am not sure if I understood the test results that where preformed by many scientists?

"Generally, Amino acids were found to increase number of flowers, fruit setting and fruit yield (Neeraja et al., 2005). The positive effects of amino acids application may be brought about by its cell-internal function as osmo-regulatory (Treichel, 1975) since it is very soluble in water therefore increase the concentration of cellular osmotic components. Application of amino acids (proline) was reported to improve plant growth and production under saline conditions (Hafez, 2001). Mixture of amino acids proved to be effective in improving plant growth under abiotic stress (Tantawy, 2007)."

Are those scientists? ;)

"What a farmer does to his fields has little to do with what goes on in my containers, (as the nice man at Humboldt Nutrients pointed out to me). "

I am not sure what this pertains to? If amino acids application? They are in hydro stores for home users?

"I am of a "glass-half-full" viewpoint that House and Garden would have done their field trials before attempting to sell a product which goes for $65.00 for a 250ml bottle."

Well Said Raybo

Another note to why I am unsure to what is being told to me.

Al said,

"The reason it was noted in previous intercourse with you that what you posted was marketing technique, is because it was. You copy/pasted advertising hype directly from the manufacturer's website describing their own product, claiming it as proof positive that the product does/will do all it says it will do."

Side not: Which we found results from tests preformed by scientists. Other studies that are NOT fertilizer companies are stated aswell.

But then a few posts later said:

"I think you missed the point entirely. No one is arguing for or against a particular product or methodology"

greenman28, VERY GOOD POINT!!!!!!!!!!!!

"If the lack of amino acids were holding back plant growth, then the increase in amino acids
would improve plant growth. "

"But if the plants are already producing amino acids and receiving the nutrients they need,
then the addition of amino acids (or any other nutrient) will not "force" more growth."

In conclusion I found this very ineresting ^

Which made me stop and think, we have one person on here who will try the product and believes in it. I have tryed one product with results, however, this point that you brought up lead me to this; It is like these companies are using the amino to help the plant grow because of the micronutrients that they lack compared to my new fav. Dyno-gro. If you look at the micro plants needs and its in FP, everything! I CANT find that in any other company.

In conclusion Dyno-gro provides every micro where even these really expensive product companies dont have even close. These companies sell amino acids.

Al,

This was the funniest and had me laughing quite bit!!!!

"Use tap water for every watering until harvest."

It just went so well. :)

I am not going against anything here and will say that Raybo will see results and it may or may not be because of lack of micro nutrients that Dyno-gro products provide.

I would like to here your view on all of this.

Thanks, MG.

That observation was essentially what Al is talking about with Liebig's Law of the Minimum.

And I totally agree regarding Dyna Grow. Foliage Pro 9-3-6 has made my gardening so much easier.

As to what Jerry said, I think his point was that major operations and indoor hydro set-ups
can exert a greater level of control over their growing conditions. In home practice, we might
not have enough control to really enjoy any increase in growth.

Either way, I don't mind anyone experimenting and providing accurate data.
As with Foliage Pro, I had to try it first myself. The science was sound, and the anecdotal
evidence provided by Al and his plants was convincing, so I began to use it as well. After a
year cycle, I felt confident to promote the use of this one-stop fertilizer. Now, two years
later, I am even more impressed because I have a feel for the product and I can comfortably
increase or decrease the dosage, knowing full well how my plants will respond.

Josh