That sounds pretty good to me. Are you just going to run them horizontal to the ground, when you use them for vertical supports? I'm sure you are probably using several metal stakes for each panel, so that should also keep them straight once they are upright.
Just for your info.......when I tried to use them for smaller tendrilled plants like cucs and pole beans, they didn't seem to like the bigger gauge "wire"......although the winter squash really liked it. Good luck with your project!

Oops! I was planning on using one of the panels for Pole Beans and Cucumbers, Peas in the fall. Did they not climb it at all? I've used bamboo poles in the past for pole beans and those are thicker than the wire on these panels. The pole beans still managed to climb them. I don't usually grow cukes so I have no experience with those.

Yes, we were planning on using them horizontal to the ground with vertical supports.

Thanks for your input, and I will post an update once we get them finished and how it works out when we try growing on them.

This post was edited by prairiemoon2 on Thu, May 29, 14 at 7:28

Yes, your pole beans and cucumbers will grow up the panels.

Excellent! Thanks Loribee!

My cattle panel trellis works fine for cukes and small gourds. I do need to train them a bit, but the same was true when I used nylon mesh. I use round plastic "vine clips" on the stubborn vine ends for a day or two till the tendrils grasp the wire. (I prefer the red vine clips to the white ones; the green clips kept opening by themselves!) I use vine clips to train the tomatoes, and when branches are long enough, weave them in and out of the cattle panels.

My trellis was built for one long bed. The panels overlap a few inches; a T-post is placed at the start/end of each run and where the panels over lap; only one T-post is needed in the middle of each panel. This arrangement has supported tomatoes, cukes, and small gourds without any difficulty.

[I should say also that the bottoms of the panels are raised about 12-14" off the ground. That makes it interesting getting the vines started, but it supports them higher, providing extra growing space.]

I use them for snap peas, cukes, and have used them for winter squash. Peas will climb on their own but cukes, and squash need to be trained. I used garden twine to secure the vines to the panel. Works fine.

That sounds great, missingtheobvious, I am also planning another bed for tomatoes with more cattle panels. I am going to try more or less espalier with the tomatoes, which sounds somewhat like what you are doing.

We had to cut the panels in half to get them home, and they are going in a bed 17x4ft and another bed 19x4ft. So we will be overlapping ours a little too. Nice to know your arrangement worked for you.

I haven't used those clips before, I was thinking of using panty hose circles. Where did you get the clips and have you used any other method of tying them in, that you can compare to?

Thanks AlliDeSpain, tying in works.

This post was edited by prairiemoon2 on Thu, May 29, 14 at 11:03

Got one of four vertical supports finished and installed this afternoon! Exciting! Can't wait to start planting. Thanks for the help. I'll try to post photos later.

I would love to see them, and promise to "oooh aaaah". ;-D

I didn't mean to be a downer, Prairiemoon. Good luck and be sure to post some pics of it!

I didn't mean to be a downer, Prairiemoon. Good luck and be sure to post some pics of it!

Catherinet, you were not a downer at all. :-) Always happy to hear different experiences. Thanks for taking the time to respond to my questions.

Okay, so here is the first one completed and hope to have three more done by the end of the weekend and that will be the end of the current construction on our new vegetable garden beds. Later we want to build some cold frame tops and a new compost bin, but this will be it for now, and time to work on the actual garden. lol

We used old bamboo poles that still have a little life in them and plastic quick ties to attach everything. We cut the 16ft x 4ft panels in half and trimmed off a square or two. The two panels are overlapped and I'm not sure of the overall dimension, but I believe it is about 7ft x 7ft. The poles are hammered into the ground 18 inches and the braces are wedged between the bottom of the wooden raised bed and one of the side supports. That was as good as we could do and we'll see how they do this summer. They feel pretty sturdy. If there is a problem with them, we will still have the cattle panels to construct something different with, next year.

Ooh, aah! LOL Seriously, nice job! Plenty of room for climbing veggies.

Thanks Loribee, I'm a little more excited about this trellis than it warrants, I'm sure, but I've been working with ineffective solutions for climbing vegetables for awhile and I'm looking forward to something that has a chance of working. :-)

I think we all underestimate climbing vegetables at first. I went from 6' redwood posts to 8' redwood posts to 10' metal t-posts with rabbit fencing (same as cattle panels just smaller holes). My tomatoes and beans still overgrow them, but I'm putting my foot down on going any higher. By the time they get that big, I've given in to the "it is what it is" attitude for the rest of the season. heh

Looking forward to seeing them covered with plants. Looks like you've got a beautiful piece of property!

It looks great!

I would put another couple big bamboo stakes on the back that are more diagonal (like the ones on the front) to support it. Once that thing is covered with cucs/beans, etc., and you get a gust of wind.............well, you can imagine.
I'm really not trying to be a downer again! haha I've just got a degree from the college of hard knocks. :)

YouâÂÂre right Loribee, we do underestimate climbing vegetables. IâÂÂve tried different cage ideas for the tomatoes and IâÂÂve tried nylon trellising and bamboo teepees for the beans. DidnâÂÂt like any of those solutions. I donâÂÂt have full sun all day, I just have between 6 and 7 hours, so I am not expecting everything to go to 10ft. At least I would be pretty surprised. Hopefully the 7ft will be high enough. I could get them to 9ft next year with a few adjustments, if I need to.

Thanks, we have a small 1/4 acre, but it fits what we need. I canâÂÂt imagine taking care of anything larger.

Catherine, Thanks, we got the second one done today, that is just to the right of the one in the photo. Still have two more to do in another bed for tomatoes. My son is building them and he suggested a 3rd bamboo stake diagonal in the middle which I vetoed, based on convenience of planting and working in the bed. And he wanted to put the diagonal braces on back and front as you are suggesting, but I had him put the trellis a foot away from the back of a four ft wide bed, so that doesnâÂÂt leave much room for that back support. I suppose we could do it with the foot of space. The one thing in our favor is the prevailing winds almost always come from the West and the diagonal supports are on the East side of the trellis. And these trellises are going to grow pole beans and cucumbers.

WeâÂÂve still got the tomato bed to do and I was planning on doing it the same way. I wonder how it would work if I put the trellis down the middle of the bed? I just hate to waste the space behind the trellised tomatoes which will be in complete shade.

ThatâÂÂs a cute expression, âÂÂa degree from the college of hard knocksâÂÂ. lol

Red vine clips from Territorial (my favorite):
http://www.territorialseed.com/category/trellising_supplies

White trellis clips from Johnny's (not my favorite, but still good):
http://www.johnnyseeds.com/p-6245-tomato-trellis-clips-100-count.aspx

These clips -- unless you find someone who will sell them wholesale -- are rather daunting in price, but worth it, as far as I'm concerned. They stood up well to sun and weather.

One of the pro's on GW's Tomato forum some years back mentioned a vendor who sells them in bulk for a great price (great if you're someone like me who's addicted to them: but having bought many over the years I didn't think I needed that many more). Anyway, I think the bulk price may have been a greenhouse or hydroponics vendor.

Just don't buy the green ones from Gardeners' Supply Company! They come unclipped.

N.B.: as I haven't purchased any for three years, I can't guarantee the quality of whatever anyone is currently selling!

I had a thought last night about how to give that trellis more support on the back side. I have raised wooden beds that they are sitting in and I wonder if I could place a cup hook or similar hardware into the sides of the bed and hook bungee cords from the wooden sides to the trellis on both sides? Would this help, or make it worse?

Missingtheobvious, thanks for the links for the clips. I appreciate it. I have a small garden, so I wouldnâÂÂt need too many, so they wouldnâÂÂt be all that expensive I guess. I do wonder though about the hard plastic, if it causes any damage due to cutting into the stems, or if there is enough room for the stem/branches to expand without the hard plastic interfering? I have only used pantyhose ties. I cut them into strips and tie with that and what I like about it is that they are soft and expand as the plant grows. If I had 25 tomato plants I would probably want something quick and easy like these clips, though. This year my garden will be three times larger than it was, so I may be really wanting these clips by the time July comes along. [g]

I just looked at your picture again, and I see that even the front bamboo supports aren't really supporting the side supports, right?
Can you do this: Can you buy some green metal stakes.....maybe 5-6' tall ones, and hammer them down into the ground, right beside each side support and the middle support?
Those stakes have a flat side and a slightly concave side. You could hammer them in the ground with the bamboo supports nestled into the stake side that is concave.......then use smaller bungee cords at intervals, to hold the 2 supports together.

I have pole bean trellises made out of galvanized electrical conduit. Granted, they aren't as wide as your structure.......maybe 3' wide........but I have used the metal stakes in the manner I described to anchor the trellis. It has worked well.

I know you've put alot of thought and effort into your structure and it's really aesthetically very pleasing, but I wouldn't want it to blow over in the wind and maybe pull all the plant roots out of the ground. I may be totally wrong........but that's what I'd do. But I never worry about aesthetics! haha I'm all-function.........and I know lots of people aren't like me.

As far as the question you asked about the bungee cords........I just really think you need more unyielding support for your trellis.

If you're getting tired of my ideas, just tell me to shut up. hahaha :)

Oh....one more thing before you tell me to shut up..........
Here's a pic of my trellises. I don't know if you can see the bottom parts of them, where I have attached the metal green stakes to the conduit. I use concrete reinforcing wire....which is alot lighter weight than cattle panels.

I'm also using my kids' old swingset and it works great! In fact, if it broke, I'd go out and buy another one, just for the garden!

{{gwi:48165}}

Hi Catherine, I always have a lot of ideas and a lot to say, so happy to hear your ideas. :-)

The front supports are attached around the horizontal bamboo and around the cattle panel. They made a big difference in how stable the structure feels.

First let me say, that I do think of function first, but aesthetics are probably more important to me than they are to most people. Sorry to say.

I am trying to follow your thinking about the green metal stakes. IâÂÂve seen those before and maybe I even have a couple in a corner of the garage somewhere, but truthfully, it would not be a material I would want to use. It might be that once the trellises are full of plants, I could sneak those in behind the bamboo and not notice them. IâÂÂll have to think about that.

Are you thinking that bamboo poles are not strong? Have you worked with them before? Or is it our construction technique that you think needs a little extra for strength? We were going to build A Frames originally but I changed my mind at the last minute for various reasons. Mainly because looking at the 4ft wide bed, I couldnâÂÂt see how that was going to work out well. I would have had to open the AFrame up from side to side and plant in the middle between it.

We had also thought about building with lumber and attaching the cattle panels to that, then anchoring them with rebar or pipe into the ground, but time got away from us and I was anxious to start planting and I had all those bamboo poles in the garage.

Thanks for the answer about the bungee cord, youâÂÂre probably right, IâÂÂll just forget that idea. But I certainly donâÂÂt want a full trellis full of beans to come down on me, so IâÂÂll try to think of something more I can do to make sure itâÂÂs not going to happen. Fire away if you think of another idea! We do still have two more to make, so if there is some suggestion for some different way we could do it, happy to hear it.

What a beautiful garden spot. Looks like something out of a magazine! Love your idea of using an old swingset. How creative! Good luck with it. I'm sure you'll be fine, and if something doesn't work, that's what next year is for!

Catherine, I am very jealous of that old swing set!! It looks like it would be just right for climbing vegetables. What a great idea someone had! If I ever need to expand and have room for one, I'd get one too! Thanks for posting your photo.

If you have the green metal posts at the bottom of your electrical conduit trellises, I can not really see them. Maybe they're less noticeable than I thought they would be. I'm going to have to search the garage and see if I have one to try out.

I think the bamboo stakes are probably strong enough. How far into the ground are they?
I would just put 2 more stakes behind the trellis, in a more diagonal position (just like the ones in front. That would give it a little more stability on that back side.

Catherine, The bamboo is 18inches into the ground. I found the green metal stakes in the garage this morning and we held them in place to get a look at what they look like and I can't even see them from the front. It is that particular green color that I've never warmed up to. If they were a nice dark brown I would be happy with them. But either way, the back of the trellis is an area that no one is sitting looking at and rarely walks past, so from the front, they don't' show, they are almost the same thickness of the bamboo, so we are going to use them on all the trellises.

I'm very happy that you suggested it, now I won't be worrying about the trellis coming down when it is full of plants. Thanks a lot!!

You're welcome prairiemoon! Show us pics when it's all grown up!

In my garden, green beans don't put too much stress on trellises. Even when they overgrow the top and start hanging over, I don't get much of a lean.

Tomatoes, on the other hand: You'll want reinforced concrete drilled into the subterranean rock, LOL

I was more worried about a big gust of wind.

This is our fifth year growing pole beans on a cattle panel, and I highly recommend it! I have a different setup, though; we bent the panel in half to make an 8-ft. arch. I believe my panel is 16 x 5. We bought another one this year to make a second arch.

{{gwi:48166}}

This post was edited by alisande on Sun, Jun 1, 14 at 18:57

Definitely will post more photos when the garden gets under way. Thanks.

Loribee, I was thinking this pair of trellises with beans/cucumbers on them will have less weight on it than the tomato trellises. We may even do them a little differently.

Alisande, my, doesn't that look great! Such healthy, well tended growth on your green beans. How do you keep that archway up? Is it reinforced with T posts?

Yes, T posts and zip ties. It has held up well. When I first heard about bean arches, I imagined the beans hanging down neatly underneath the arch, waiting for me to pluck them effortlessly from the vine. Ha!

While some do appear inside the arch, many grow on the outside, making picking at the top more of a challenge. A small, lightweight step stool helps late in the season, and not many beans escape my clutches.

The beans are Kentucky Wonder, BTW.

Looks great alisande!

I guess I've just had a different experience with cattle panels. I made an arch like yours one year, and the beans just didn't seem to like to grow up it.

Then another year, I used them for support for the tomatoes, and that didn't work out either.

I LOVE concrete reinforcing wire and have used it for years for all my tomato cages and to line all my bean and cuc trellises. It's light weight (as compared to cattle panels), and you can easily cut it to any size. I bought a huge role of the stuff, but some stores (Menards) sells smaller panels of it.

I have to laugh when I think back when I first was trying to buy cattle panels from a Tractor supply store that is 11 miles from here. We don't have a pick up. So I was thinking of all sorts of silly ways to get those panels home............one of which was to anchor them to the top of my van. But then I pictured them starting to bounce on the way home, and actually lifting the van off the ground. hahaha Then I thought maybe my husband could drive his car right in front of mine, and we could put the panels half on each car and drive slowly home. haha
Fortunately, I found an employee at the store with a truck, who agreed to bring them out to me.

I do have the panels separating my main garden from one end that I use for winter squash.
So.....cattle panels and concrete reinforcing wire and green metal stakes and LOTS of bungee cords are some of my favorite things. hahaha

I did put 2 cattle panels in arch-shape, one in front of the other and covered it with a tarp and made a fort for my son. :)

Thanks for the explanation Alisande. I was thinking I will probably need a small step stool by the end of summer too. At least I hope I will. :-)

Catherine, that is a funny story about wanting to pick up the cattle panels. I was a little intimidated trying to obtain them too. I had never seen one except in a photo and no one carried it near me, I had to drive 30mins to an Agway to find them. It was suggested to us that we could cut the panels ahead of time to get them home. So my son came with me with a pair of bolt cutters and we cut them in half and they fit on the top of our van perfectly. Four bungee cords and they never moved all the way home on the highway. It was a lot easier than I was expecting. We had six half panels up there too. And now I'm short one and need to wait for more to come in and drive back there again. But I don't think getting them home in one piece on the van would have worked.

Do you use bungee cords in the garden? And how do you use them?

Hi prairiemoon.......I didn't think about cutting the panels at the store, before bringing them home until after we had them delivered. Duh! haha The people at the store weren't very helpful either.

I use lots of the really small bungee cords. I try to use the brighter colored ones so we can more easily find them in the Fall, when we're tearing down the garden.

I use them to tie the sides of the bean trellises to those green metal stakes. I use them to prop up the limbs of the tomatoes to their cages. I use them to gently prop up any way-ward growing pole bean vines, to the trellis. You name it, if it needs propping up, I use bungee cords. I just wish they lasted longer. They're usually good for several years though.
I also used them to connect the wire to the swingset, to hold the fencing that the cucs grow up. They are so easy to move around too, if you need to.

I use them everywhere .......in the chicken coop/run, on my golf cart (that I use to get around our property), etc.. Like I said earlier, I probably don't worry about aesthetics as much as I should. haha

I transplanted four fox grapes, an going to them on arched cattle panels.

prairiemoon2, I've never had any damage to stems from the vine/trellis clips.

Catherine, IâÂÂm going to stock up on bungee cords. Most of the situations you describe, IâÂÂve had in other gardening seasons, nice solutions! And not even I am worrying about aesthetics when the bean plants are about to go over. You are a wealth of information! :-) As is everyone else here.

Missingtheobvious, thanks, I think I will find training plants a lot faster and easier with those clips, I may try them.

dgc1, not sure what a fox grape is, I have table grapes and right now they are on an old metal screen house frame. IâÂÂm hoping to build a new wooden one in the Fall. I wonder if the arched panels will be strong enough to hold up the grapes when they are mature?

You can never have too many bungee cords. :)

We finished the vegetable garden a couple of weeks ago and thought I'd post a photo of the Cattle Panel Trellises to update the thread. We had bamboo stakes to use for the first two, that beans and cucumbers are going on. And had some leftover 4x4 hemlock wood that our son ripped down to 2x2s for the tomato trellises instead of the bamboo.

It was a big help to be able to come here and ask questions as this was our first attempt to build trellises. Thanks to all! :-)

Wow--that looks great!! So tidy and efficient, and in synch with the surroundings. Happy growing!

Thanks Alisande, we'll see how long it stays tidy. [g] And we already have some unknown animal climbing one of the trellises and eating the tips of the bean vines. And saw a Squash Vine Borer Moth flying around the squash plants. :-) So new beds, same issues. lol

I heard someone on TV the other day state that squash vine borers stop laying eggs after the 4th of July. So if you can hang on for another two days . . .

Of course, this assumes the TV woman knows what she's talking about. Sometimes that's a stretch. ;-)

I hear ya. The weather person has as much chance of being wrong as right in our neck of the woods too. lol

Ok, well I do hope that is the case with the SVBM. We've had an unusually large number of birds in the yard. Robins seem to have nested nearby and I counted about 7 adolescents yesterday. Then a flock of starlings, and a pair of catbirds. They all seem to be very interested in the vegetable beds. Flying in and out of the beds with squash in them, so I am hoping they are finding bugs to eat.

I don't even have a feeder up, because I didn't want to attract squirrels. I do have a number of shrubs that fruit is developing on and I think they are here in anticipation of a feast. And I seem to remember reading that birds that are fruit eaters, also eat insects. So this has been an interesting development this year.