I guess mine would be the water hyacinth I got shortly after we moved in here. I was going to landscape the pond and I thought that a few water hyacinth would be so pretty on it... all those gorgeous flowers. *sigh* well, no one told me that you dont add plants to a real pond without leaving them in pots. so, you guessed it, we have a whole pond of water hyacinth every year now. doesnt seem to matter what I do, cant get rid of the darn stuff! Our neighbor had the same problem with cattails and his pond... made me feel a bit better. hmmmmm I wonder if bamboo would like it around the edge?

reese,

A neighbor had a similar situation years ago with some water lilies that got 'introduced' to her 1/2 acre pond. She thought they were so cool and pretty, but I 'knew' differently. I could not convince her that they were evil and that they needed to be taken care of as they would soon completely overtake her pond.

Well, turns out, I was right. They became a very big problem and threatened the livelihood of all the fish as it was a great fishing pond.

She and her new DH contacted a water 'chemical' company and got what was necessary to safely kill them off. She now has them under control and if she ever spots another water lily on her pond, she will not be letting it live for very long without taking some fast action.

Good luck with your water hyacinth.

Sue

Here is a link that might be useful: Texas Agrilife Extension Service-Management Options Water Hyacinth

I guess I don't have anything I would consider a thug, although there is one section of my yard that has Star-of-Bethlehem growing. I think the flowers are pretty and I guess they don't bother me because none are growing in my flower beds. I can see where that would be a problem. I have a bed that has blue grape hyacinths and they are a solid mass from one end of the bed to another. The good thing about both is that when the weather gets warmer they die back.
I remember my first trade on the plant exchange. It didn't go well because I never received my end but they did. I sent them a box with 4 or 5 pounds of Star-of-Bethlehem bulbs.
jim_6b

I remember my first trade on the plant exchange. It didn't go well because I never received my end but they did. I sent them a box with 4 or 5 pounds of Star-of-Bethlehem bulbs.
LMAO! My one bad plant trade was with that Mia person from CA who keeps returning. I sent her a box of the Star of Beth.

I heard from another member too (in OH) that the one bad trade they had had, was when they sent out Star of Beth. Knowing how invasive they are, they felt less bad that they had been scammed.

Thanks Chemocurl!

In the back garden, it's Poa annua, annual bluegrass. It grows thick as a carpet in the beds in the spring, and as soon as I weed it out, back it comes again. If I don't keep up with it, it can easily choke out smaller plants. I'm sure if I tried to grow a lawn, I couldn't get it to do nearly as well...

In the front garden, It is a beautiful, uncommon native plant that I started from a cutting; Stachys chamissonis, Chamisso's hedge nettle. That one little rooted piece suckered like a mad thing and ran around EVERYWHERE. I will never be able to get rid of it. It is terrible to weed out because it has little hairs all over it that really irritate the skin. Also, it's in a little too much shade where it is, so I don't really get to even enjoy a good show of blooms.

In nature, it is a bog plant so I may pot some up and put it on a sunny shelf in the pond because it is a pretty plant. I sure do rue the day I let it unleashed into the garden though.

In third place is Allium triquetrum, three cornered leek. It is a European native, sold as an ornamental, that has naturalized in California. It comes up every spring in every damp and shady spot and is impossible to completely get rid of. It has a very stinky onion odor and a slimy feel, so it is very unpleasant to weed out.

Wow; I feel like going out and murdering a few plants now!

Here is a link that might be useful: Stachys chamissonis, Chamisso's hedge nettle

Hmmmm.....funny....a few years ago, I made a trade requesting 'Star of Bethlehem' because I saw them in a magazine and thought they were so pretty. My flowerbeds are raised beds...and they have not spread at all. I'm not even sure if all of the original bulbs even survived. Now, I do have a lot of chipmunk problems here...maybe that is why??? My problems are actually trying to keep things alive here....since the chipmunks tunnel through all the roots and next thing you know the plants are dead!!
Linda

I have yucca's that I can't kill or dig out. I try. Every year I try. I have dug half way to china and sifted the dirt as I put it back in the hole and with 6 weeks, her it comes again. I have three spots although I do think last year when I dug ALL the way to China that I got it. SO this week I wil tackle another. It is not a bad plant, I just don't want them where they are and that is in the middle of where I put my flower beds (I made the old ones bigger when we moved here). They just reuse to cooperate. I know someone else prob. thinks I am nuts, but I just don't want it where it is. It is next to and kinda under a climing rose that used to be half dead and when I went nutso ruthless on it last spring it suddenly decided it had been reborn. It grew so big that it took over that side of the bed/hill/yard. The prob. (as the rose was beautiful)( is that te yucca is kinda under/beside it and you can't hardly get to it to dig with out getting a thorn somewhere not pleasant.

This is fun Sue. Thanks

I have yucca's that I can't kill or dig out. I try. Every year I try. I have dug half way to china and sifted the dirt as I put it back in the hole and with 6 weeks, her it comes again.

Man, I would give those yuccas a good dose of
Round Up or its generic equivalent.

Linda, you are lucky, but I'd dig those things out before they or their seeds escape into the soil elsewhere on the property.

In the back garden, it's Poa annua, annual bluegrass. It grows thick as a carpet in the beds in the spring, and as soon as I weed it out, back it comes again.
Man I would be using PREEN or its generic equivalent. I have a couple of the Preen shaker canisters, and then buy the generic or store brand of the stuff and refill the shakers. Sometimes I am even lucky enough to find the bags that are broken and then sold to me at a reduced price.

In third place is Allium triquetrum, three cornered leek. It is a European native, sold as an ornamental, that has naturalized in California.
Susan,
That sounds a lot like the Star of Beth here. Will Round-up kill it off?

I'm not a big fan of using chemicals, but after loosing 3 months of the gardening season each spring due to digging s.o.b. I use the chemicals for assistance in killing off stuff or to keep the beds clean of unwanted weed seeds sprouting.

tansy & comfrey--they're everywhere!

silver maple and redbud trees. EVERYSINGLE SEED that falls germinates and grows. wouldnt it be nice it it worked for flowers that easy

I spent all year picking em out. last year the gutteers wwere a tree farm.

My biggest thug is the tall pink Mexican petunia (ruellia tweediana "chi chi") - it's gorgeous, blooms all summer. On a hot day if you sprinkle it with the hose, you can hear those seeds go pop (which is kind of fun). And every one must germinate! Plus it spreads by roots to take up the whole bed.

I originally had a small bit in my hellstrip and now that's about all that's there (and a Salvia Greggii that has managed to hold on).

Lin in Texas

Here is a link that might be useful: Tall Pink Mexican Petunia

Ivy. English ivy. 'nough said.

Hi Sue,

Although chemicals like Roundup sometimes call my name, I resist the call... Our yard is a National Wildlife Federation Certified Wildlife Habitat, and I have made a pledge to garden organically. I just think of weeding as a cheap form of meditation!

Here is a link that might be useful: National Wildlife Federation - Create a habitat

Our yard is a National Wildlife Federation Certified Wildlife Habitat, and I have made a pledge to garden organically.
Ahhh...I understand. Do you mulch heavily against the POA?

Do you dig the alliums out yearly when the foliage is visible and deadhead against reseeding?

It is comforting to see that others do have their challenges, though I do think I face the absolutely worst one so far. I really cannot imagine anything worse that the star of Beth bulbs. I'll get some pics later.

Sue

Hi Sue,

Mulching would definitely help with the grass problem in the back garden, and I may do that. It would cut down on the desirables self-sowing, but I think I'm at the point where I'm O.K. with that. The front garden is basically self-mulching because it is surrounded by 100 year old camphor trees that drop leaves all year long. The back garden doesn't have that blessing though.

Re the allium; I do try to pull them before they set seed, but they spread mostly through offsets. -Like the s.o.b, they multiply rapidly via the bulb. Leave the tiniest pea sized bulblet behind and back it will come. I don't think they are nearly as bad as the s.o.b. however. Even though my garden will never be rid of A. triquetrum, it is definitely under control, and I actually allow it to live and bloom in one difficult spot where nothing else is happy.

Here is a link that might be useful: Allium triquetrum - 10 bulbs for $4.90 (I could be rich!)

My 2 biggest thugs would be English Ivy (I've spent about 48 hours total so far just trying to clear out one are for future beds... that stuff is INSANE to remove!) and the other is Gooseneck Loosestrife. My mom apparently planted it in her beds years ago, and it has spread EVERYWHERE!!! I will be wringing those goosenecks everytime I see one popping up this year :P

Sue ~ I'm in a RR swap that I think someone is mailing in lots of SOB's.. lol I'll be sure to steer clear of those badboys!
Thanks for the heads up :)

~Wendy

crabgrass!! ugh. may try burning them out with a small torch before planting flowers. once my flowes/annuals grows its hard to rip out the crabgrass without taking out some flowers.

i also have star-of-bethlehem, but they dont get out of controll. they seem to stay at the bottom of the yard.i put some in a raised bed too. they are pretty.
i have yuccas. they been in the same spot for 25?30? years. only 3-4 years do i have to dig some up they are right beside the peonys n they both fight over space lol.
i have silver maples too n know whatcha mean about the seeds! they are fast growers but i love them. to pretty when their leaves turn up.

wild morning glorys. How could I forget about them. They smother my roses, my irises, my roses, my bushes in the front, my roses, the barn, my clothes line, my lavender, my daylillies, they are everywhere. For everyone you maage to rip out 10 more are growing and laughing at you behind your back. I heear them as I am getting stabbed by my roses that I amtrying to save from suffocation. They laugh and call my name to look over here and when I do, they suffocate my poor rose bush, even more. They are awful. I spend moe time weeding these then anything else probably. They even grow on the yucca's but I let them fight, I hope oneof them wi kill off the other, but of course that does not happen either.

Like Dorisl, I have issues with trees. Box elder maples and black walnuts spring up everywhere here. And both varieties grow so darn fast! Also I have wild violets EVERYWHERE. I really dont mind too much, since the offer a pretty purple haze to the yard. I turned some violas loose in the yard a few years ago, and they are everywhere.

ugh i forgot about the wild violets! ill be pullin them out too. they are pretty but take over. i toss them over the bank n let them grow there. dont mind them in the yard or over the bank just not in my flower beds.

Most of my perennials are in raised beds, so the violets haven't really been a problem there. Mostly in the lawn and under my forsythia, which actually looks nice. Too bad there isn't really and bloom time overlap there.

Oh my wild grape vines,,cannot get rid of them,, the roots grow under my vegie garden we will be sawing them off soon, they are so big around you have to saw them out and rip,,crab grass,,urrr,,their is no cure,,have hacked them off dug them up and they are back,,,dandelions,,,all over too,,and my grandson thinks they are wonderful to blow off the heads so they reseed every where,,I used to do the same thing too,hehe
Lisa

lol i use to do the same with dandelions! now my kids do.

those jagger weeds dont know the name. i dug them out of the vegie garden, there roots are everywere!!! i can see new shoots popin up this summer from fiber roots not seen n tossed out ugggghhhhhhh.

Sugar maple seedlings EVERY years!!! Argh!
And creeping charlie. I am forever pulling that stuff up. Oh, and Virginia Creeper. Impossible to get rid of. I also started finding lots of bind weed last year. The birdies must have gifted those to me.

I would love a few of those redbud seedlings that are driving you crazy dorisl! I wonder what I have that would interest you....hmmmmm.... :-)

And reeselayne, I will happily trade you something for some of your water hyacinth. THey are not invassive here. Our winters kill them off instantly.

Carrie

Well, no one has 'topped' my problem.

Here are a couple of pics from this spring showing the star of beth.

{{gwi:10440}}

This is the front yard...very little actual grass and the dark spots are all star of beth 'clumps'. I think the bulbs take too much out of the soil for any real grass to survive and thrive.

{{gwi:10441}}

Although chemicals like Roundup sometimes call my name, I resist the call... Our yard is a National Wildlife Federation Certified Wildlife Habitat, and I have made a pledge to garden organically. I just think of weeding as a cheap form of meditation!

Susanc,
If you get tired of meditating or things start to get ahead of you, you might try the Preen linked below. It is organic and POA is listed as a weed it controls.

The only ingredient listed is Corn Gluten. I am trying to find it locally at a feed or grain dealer and can hopefully find it in a 50 LB bag reasonable priced. I 'imagine carrying the Preen name, and being labeled as 'Organic" it is quite expensive to buy the Preen brand. If I can find it I just might have a weed free tomato patch for the first time. The corn gluten is said to promote healthy organisms in the soil too.

Oh, and Virginia Creeper. Impossible to get rid of.
I too have VC, but it is in the woods and I like it just fine there, unlike all the invasive non native things along with poison ivy.

I've got wild grapevines too, but again, they are native and luckily just in the woodsy area....along with the violets

Sue

Here is a link that might be useful: Preen Vegetable Garden Weed Preventer

Hi Sue,

Thanks for the info on the organic Preen; good to know! Boy, those photos of the Star of Beth infestation are really scary. Now that's a thug!

This thread actually inspired me. We had a really nice day this week, and I went out and weeded the grass in one of my bigger beds. One of my neighbors came by and said, "That actually looks like fun!"

Well, after a lot of phone calls Sat to different feed and grain dealers I finally found a local source for the corn gluten meal by the 50 LB bag for a little under $19.

Below is a link to the Preen Vegetable Garden Weed Preventer label which is strictly corn gluten meal. 5 LBS will cover 250 square feet.

Sue

Here is a link that might be useful: Preen Vegetable Garden Weed Preventer

Sue
I couldn't remember if you said you wanted 30 clumps or 30 pounds. I figure each clump weighs about 1 pound so I'm sending 30 clumps. Don't worry about the postage, it's on me.
jim_6b

Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:28492}}

Not funny Jim...I dig sob everyday....expanding some beds, fine tuning some established beds that have just a few left yet, and trying to clear some new areas for beds. I'm torn between where I really need to be digging them.

I got sidetracked this eve, and dug some out that were just within the edge of the front yard woods...grrrrrr.....I wanna see the trilliums, jacks, shooting stars, bloodroot, twinleaf, hepatica, wild ginger, bluebells, violets, wild geraniums, trout lilies, etc...not sob!

Sue

Hi Sue!

I think you win the thug contest. Those things are named sob for a good reason eh?

BTW, Isnt corn Gluten is mostly to prevent seed germination.....

I think you win the thug contest.
Yes, Doris, can I could on you for sympathy then?

BTW, Isnt corn Gluten is mostly to prevent seed germination.....
Yes, I did not mean to imply it would be used or help on the sob...I will be using it in flower beds and in the tomato patch, and maybe elsewhere in the veggie garden after the seeds I have planted are up and going well.

Sue

Yes you have my sympathy, it really seems a hopeless thing... :( You can bet Im Second guessing all the ornamental allium seeds I cast about in the yard last year.

I was glad I skipped the Blue Bead Lily/chipmunk connection because somebody here warned me. Luckily the handful of seeds I had dont seem to have germinerated anywhere.

Thanks for the info re: the corn gluten Ill keep this in mind for my own seedy weedy guys.

:)

Sorry about the the sob pic. I have a patch of sob's that are 20 feet wide and 50 feet long. When my house was built 18 years ago that spot in the yard needed to be filled in with some dirt so my contractor, who lives about a mile away, used a front end loader and brought several scoops of dirt for that spot. That's how I got my sob's. The good thing is they haven't spread, so they don't bother me.
Well, I was going to say something else but I just had a brain fart so I'm gone for now. It's early and my head is pounding. More coffee.............
jim_6b

I have a patch of sob's that are 20 feet wide and 50 feet long.
The new bed area I have digging in this spring is about 8' wide by about 100' long, so you can understand the magnitude of my spring project just for that one new bed. The bad thing is that I already have more than enough plants and shrubs to fill it once it is completed. They are here and there right now, but mostly taking up space in the veggie garden in rows.

When my house was built 18 years ago that spot in the yard needed to be filled in with some dirt so my contractor, who lives about a mile away, used a front end loader and brought several scoops of dirt for that spot.
Same thing happened here. When the house was built 20 years ago, the builder ran into slate when he was digging the basement. Because of that the house was built sitting up higher above the ground than it normally would have been. He then got 65 dump truck loads of sob infested soil out of the adjoining field to fix the yard and slope away from the house just right. It all ended up good as I have good drainage and all, just have the resulting sob.

We got rain yesterday so that will cause any bulbs I have missed to maybe sprout some green so I can better find them in the loose soils I have all dug up so far. I 'know' there will be some that will be missed, but will do light digs for them in the springs to come.

Last spring I dug them out from in front of the front porch and a small triangle on one side. I never planted it though as I wanted to wait and check for more this spring. Yes, there were a few that had been missed but surprisingly there weren't many at all. I now feel pretty confident that those new areas are sob free, so later I can and will amend the soil and plant some things in those areas.

For having lived here for 20 years, this place is sure a diamond in the rough. It has only been in the last 5 years or so though that I have been what you might say 'obsessed' with acquiring and growing so many things.

Here is the proposed new bed I have been working on. There are some shrubs in it already and since there is sob in the root areas of them they will need lifted and reset. You can see the field at the left and where I have dumped all my buckets of sob infested soil. At least I don't have to go far to dispose of it. The field is green with the sob foliage each spring.
{{gwi:10442}}

Here are some bulbs that are exposed at the edge of an existing bed...that I would like to expand if time permits.
{{gwi:28495}}

This is an iris I planted last year in another sob area I am working on this spring. I planted the iris on top of the soil, knowing there was a good chance there was sob in the soil. Several irises will need lifted and reset as they look like this one, or worse....sigh...but I had to go somewhere with them.

{{gwi:28496}}

End of rant. It looks like it is going to be a perfect s.o.b. digging day today. 63 with just a light breeze and the soil is good and moist.

Sue

I guess I'm lucky there are none in any of my beds. I do have a bed that I planted a handful of grape hyacinths in. That was about 8 years ago and they have spread through the bed and out into the yard.
jim_6b

Sue's SOB story is certainly hard to top.

I think my thug situation was about on par with Sue's, in my opinion...

I had so many nasty thugs in my yard (back when I actually had a yard), that it took me 6 years and some contractors that we paid $1200 to, to get all our thugs under control...

On the fenced edge of the property that bordered the woods we had a nasty colony of poison ivy (yikes!) Could not get rid of it ourselves, no matter what we tried- even chemicals didn't work for us and every time we tried to remove it, someone got a nasty rash from it.

Luckily, the contractors we paid $1200 to eradicate it for us were successful!! They had to use industrial grade chemicals (not available to homeowners) and a tiller, from what I heard.

We also had regular invasions from the wooded area nearby into our yard of Nandina domestica, and a couple types of Ligustrum privet. Birds spread these invasive foreign plants, because they eat the berries and drop the seeds.

Wild violets (Viola sororia) also spread from the woods but I WANTED them to spread- They have medicinal and herbal uses, and pretty flowers with subtle fragrance! In fact, I really miss them and wish I still had some of them today. :)

In the backyard we had a real solid mass of thugs when we moved in. *All* the grasses back there were thugs- aggressive tough stuff like Johnsongrass (sorghum halepense), various crabgrasses (Digitaria), and Bluegrass (Poa annua).

Amazingly, all of the plants growing in between the thug-grasses were also thugs.. We had lots of SPINY thistles everywhere...Species that would re-sprout both from rootlets and from seeds:
Cirsium arvense (creeping thistle) and Cirsium vulgare (Bull thistle), yellow Star Thistle (Centaurea melitensis).

In the front yard there was plenty of Giant Ragweed (Ambrosia trifida) and common ragweed (Ambrosia artemisiifolia)- both ugly and both cause me bad allergies.

We also had Allium triquetrum (three-cornered leek) and tons of dandelions in the front- which I learned to like, instead of trying to get rid of 'em all. At least those two don't have nasty thorns or make me sneeze when in bloom. Plus, dandelions (flowers and leaves both) are nice food treats for a pet guinea pig or bunny!

Once in a while, I'd thin our Allium triquetrum out by *eating* them. They are a good leek/onion substitute and they got used in soup, stir fry, omelettes and homemade onion dip. I miss that plant too, would actually grow it in my garden today if it were available. :)

Hi Iris,

I'd be happy to send you some A. triquetum once they go dormant. -I certainly have plenty! Let's touch base in June/July.

Regards,
Susan

P.S. I did try some as a substitute for regular onions once, and they were fine. I guess weeding them is so unpleasant that I can't stand the thought of eating them. -I used to eat escargot before I became a gardener, but now I loathe snails too much to eat them.

Oh Sue... just saw the pictures, what a mess of those nasty things you have!

Cindy

just saw the pictures, what a mess of those nasty things you have!
Yes, and I am so tired of feeling that all of my time outside needs to be spent digging out the nasty things for the next 1-2 months while the foliage is still visible.

New foliage keeps emerging in areas that I have already dug out, meaning I missed 'some' and have to go over those areas yet again and again. I see new ones have emerged recently on 2 areas by the front porch that I had 'thought' were pretty well cleared of them (last spring). They are a never ending battle...sigh....whine.

Sue

Sue, you aren't alone with a seemingly endless thug battle.
Lots of gardeners have situations like yours. Hang in there, Sue! You can win this battle eventually!

Your diligence and persistence in controlling thugs will pay off in the long run. Also helps looking at the bright side when possible... :) At least, your SOB aren't SPINY!!

I managed to get my SPINY thugs under control after about six years of exhausting digging. Never got my yard totally weed-free, but I did get it down to 5% weeds and was able to keep it at that percentage until the home was sold. 95% weedless is good enough for most practical purposes. :)

I bet quite a few gardeners who do have severe thug problems in Spring, are so busy digging thugs that they can't be here and post about it! Gotta be out there digging, not here posting. During the 6 yrs. that I was battling my worst thugs, I seldom got online at all. Too busy in the yard digging weeds! :)

Very often, areas of my yard I *thought* I had cleared of thugs the previous year, still had SPINY thistles in them the next year. :/ If I missed a single little rootlet or a few seeds blew in from somewhere, thugs would return.

I went thru the same sort of battle as the one you are having. My SPINY thistles were Round-Up resistant, so they did not respond to chemicals. I expect they developed pesticide resistance because they came from nearby farms that had been sprayed with pesticides for decades.

My thugs also could not be killed by burying them under something like mulch or old carpet. They'd grow right thru the mulch, and stay dormant under the carpet for a full year!

Twice a year- I spent my free time digging out tons of SPINY thistles. 40 to 60 days of digging every Spring and every Fall. Warm climate; things would sprout in Fall too.

So much thug control during those months, that I'd typically have from zero to 15 minutes left each day to do all the more *fun* parts of gardening like visiting garden shops, planting food and flowers, composting, watering, and such. That was three to four months of my growing season every year, primarily spent battling the thugs!!

Very tiring work, and I had to use leather gloves due to SPINES. Even with those, I'd *still* occasionally get pricked.

Summer wasn't free of thug-control work either because there would always be more SPINY thistles- latecomers that sprouted up from a bit of rootlet I missed in the Spring dig, or that came from slow-germinating seeds.

These summer thistles needed to be immediately removed as they gradually showed their ugly SPINY selves- couldn't let any go to seed, or else I'd have thousands of thistles again the next year!

I know- it's very frustrating and tiring, but I do believe that if you keep at it, your yard and garden will eventually be the way you want them to be. :)

I'm newer to gardening (third year) and we were gifted some daylillies two summers ago. They are taking over! I don't know the variety, but they're the taller ones (foliage to about 30") with leaves about 2-3" wide, and I believe they bloom yellow or orange. I think we started with 5 clumps, and now there's at least 14 clusters of plants. We've actually managed to give whole ones away and split the remaining to fill up the space, but I'm ready to get rid of them all. My neighbor's daylillies have also invaded one of our beds, but to keep it in perspective, these are urban gardens. Thoughts? Should I just pull out and give them all away? Thanks in advance!