What I've been fussing with:

I had a Ficus microcarpa that would look better if it was shorter.

So I cut off the top and treated it as a cutting. It's actually considered as a 'raft planting'. It will have 3 trunks (unless one is removed for esthetic purposes), but they are all part of and connected to the same branch. It was defoliated, but the buds are just starting to open.

Below are several hackberry trees I started from berries a friend sent me during winter '19. I felt that the top of one of the trees would make a nice tree by itself, so I started an air layer in May of this year ('22).

When I separated the layer from the parent tree at the end of July. Roots on the layer were plentiful, but I still pruned the top back quite a bit to be sure the roots could meet the canopy's moisture needs. It's on its way.

Al

Al, somewhat related. General, not bonsai. Many times, one outgrowth results from point of cut whose purpose was to get branching. Nothing gained. Loss of growing time used in return to square 1 (in effective replacement of removed part). My practice has been to cut at minimal safe distance that allows healing at node. Could it be that branching occurs more often when more than the minimum amount of material remains?

If I understand your question, you are asking about only one new branch occurring immediately proximal to the pruning cut. In my experience, this would be very uncommon unless the plant has extremely low energy reserves and the timing of the pruning cut (pinch) was inappropriate.

Some plants tend to push new branches only from dormant/latent buds in leaf axils or immediately above leaf/bundle scars, while others might produce a profusion of new adventitious buds after a hard pruning. Pruning when the plant is growing robustly and current photosynthate production is at or nearing maximum will almost always yield best results. For most of the Northern Hemisphere above about 20* north latitude, that would be late May to mid-June.

I'm not sure what you meant by, "My practice has been to cut at minimal safe distance that allows healing at node. Could it be that branching occurs more often when more than the minimum amount of material remains?" What is meant by "minimal safe distance" and "more than the minimum amount of material remains"? Some plants cannot be pruned back farther than the most distal branch with green foliage, and others can have all branches removed, leaving only a trunk completely devoid of any branches. IOW, on the ficus below, had I made the pruning cut further back, proximal to the small branch with leaves, it still would have back-budded profusely from adventitious buds; but that practice would severely jeopardize the viability of many other trees - pines, junipers, hemlock, false cypress (Chamaecyparis), larch, arborvitae, ..... .

Most plants other than needled evergreens will tolerate being chopped off just above ground level if they are young enough.

Al

Al, I think you sold me one those round pots from Stone Lantern that have guy wire hookup stubs. Makes it so much easier.

This year it was a very busy season for me. repotting and pruning a whole bunch of tropicals and some deciduous. Hardly could get around to do conifers. Last year I could not do any and many were languishing even then. Lost a nice Larch that I had been training for last 5-6 years. I dis when it was a bit too late in the season and the weather turned unusually hot early this year. I was expecting that Aug will be hot but turned out to be a lot cooler - some of my tropical cuttings are not doing too well because of that.

Jasmines are blooming and smells just wonderful in our yard. Here is a pic of Jasminum molle.

Four - I'm confused. The only reason I can see why someone might lop off a branch with the hope that another will take its place is to be rid of a branch too thick near the top of the tree, hoping a new thinner branch will take its place, even if not in exactly the same spatial position - but that's more of a bonsai thing.

Bonsai pruning is different than pruning woody material in the landscape. A) Removing branches by using a pruning cut flush to the trunk, or B) leaving a branch stub that extends outward from the branch bark ridge at the top of the branch where it connects to the trunk or lower order branch and outward beyond the branch collar at the bottom of the branch being pruned.

Flush cuts limit the tree's ability to effective wall off the injury (search words Alex Shigo PhD "CODIT" , which stands for Compartmentalization of Decay in Trees) and later on on the tree's life, disruption of tree systems and mechanical failure due to decay. Pruning cuts that leave a branch stub too long also provide a pathway by which rot organisms can enter deep into the trunk or lower order branch as the stub rots. Rot organisms can follow the bud trace all the way back to the pith or heartwood.

For bonsai or other containerized trees, flush cuts and (commonly used in bonsai) concave cuts are fine as structural failure is not a concern. Also, flush and concave cuts do not leave the large lump that occurs as the branch collar rolls over a branch stub.

I think the image you provided might better have noted that the near flush cut on the left would have disrupted or destroyed the axillary buds located immediately above the branch. 'Node' might not have been the best word.

Another thought re the difference in the types of cuts performed on bonsai trees and trees in the landscape - Contemporary consensus is that wound dressings should not be used on tree wounds as the practice can actually encourage rot organism numbers. Since mechanical failure at some point in the distant future is seldom a concern for growers of bonsai trees or any small tree grown in a pot, wound dressings can be used to speed the development of callus tissue and prevent widespread desiccation in the area of the wound. This decreases the time the wound takes to heal ('heal' not used in the same sense that animals heal), ensures the wound remains as small as possible, and facilitates the smoothness with which the callus tissue rolls over the wound. There is an assortment of cut paste (wound) dressings sold. I prefer waterproof wood glue. Some growers use Vaseline or even Preparation H as their wound dressing.

Al

>"'I'm confused" ___ Yes.

"...cut whose purpose was to get branching."

www.thespruce.com/what-is-a-node-2539765 : "The base of a bud, leaf, twig, or branch is always attached to a node"

"The base of a bud, leaf, twig, or branch is always attached to a node" She forgot about adventitious buds which (on wood) usually originate in phloem parenchyma near the vascular cambium, on roots (as in Prunus sp), even on leaves (as in Kalanchoe daigremontiana's).

Cuts to force branching usually leave several nodes proximal to the pruning cut on the branch, hope being that with the removal of the primary source of auxin (branch apex/ apical meristem), which suppresses lateral growth, activation of new branching from axillary buds at the nodes, or adventitious buds might occur wherever the buds occur on branches.

I'm confused because I don't see how removing a branch to get a branch in the same place the original branch occurred makes sense. Many trees, Ficus spp, Acer spp, Carpinus spp, Ulmus spp, ..... a long list, can and do willingly and simultaneously activate several axillary buds in a single leaf axil, and adventitious buds randomly along internodes.

Here ^^^ see 2 axillary buds in the same leaf axil (Ficus microcarpa).

To most efficiently increase ramification (branch and leaf density), pinching each branch when the 3rd leaf produced on the branch is opening almost always insures activation of the axillary buds in both remaining leaf axils or above the leaf/ bundle scars left after leaf abscission.

Here ^^^, 2 new branch buds have been activated by the pinch made evident by the short stub. When these new branches are opening the 3rd leaf on each branch, they should be pinched back to 2 leaves. That will result in 4 branches (2 on each branch). The next pinch of 4 branches leaving 2 leaves on each will produce 8 branches, then 16, 32, 64, 128, ..... .

I still don't know what you're driving at.

Al

>"removing a branch to get a branch" ___ Not to get "a" branch.

To get this ^^^ ,

My practice has been to cut at minimal safe distance that allows healing at node. Could it be that branching occurs more often when more than the minimum amount of material remains? Now I understand the question. While there might always be exceptions, based on all the pruning I've done, I would say no. Some trees and shrubs will produce a multitude of adventitious buds at the wound caused by pruning (Euonymous, e.g). These are buds (mentioned above) that usually originate in phloem parenchyma near the vascular cambium. In other trees, disruption of the flow of auxin will only activate buds at nodes. The number of nodes to nodes produce new branches immediately proximal to the pruning cut depends on multiple factors, among them are genetics, timing of the pruning cut, the plant's level of vitality, how much stored energy the plant has, the plant's current ability to make its food (photosynthesis).

If a plant has leaves arranged opposite along the branch, a pruning cut makes it obligate that the most distal node will produce at least 2 branches from the node immediately proximal to the pruning cut. (sometimes more, as in the Acer palmatum below) .

The exceptions to that would be, when the node is damaged such that buds on one or both sides of the node are no longer viable. If leaves are arranged alternately along the branch, it becomes obligate that only the most distal remaining node will push a single new branch. Sometimes, more than 1 bud in the row of latent buds in leaf axils or above leaf/ bundle scars will grow from a bud on trees with alternate branching, but not very often.

Even in cases where adventitious buds arise at the wound site (Euonymous), The number of buds that ultimately appear won't be notably affected by the length of the pruning stub. In the case where a longer than necessary stub is left (refer to your image), unless the plant is capable of forming adventitious buds, the stub will die back to the most distal node or to it's attachment point. Loose knots in pine/ spruce/ fir boards are the result of branches that were broken such that stubs remained; then, as the branch collar rolled over/ onto the branch as the tree thickened, the branch became included. As rot organisms consumed the sapwood of the included portion of the branch, it left the branch's heartwood unattached to the surrounding wood.

Auxin is produced in all living plant tissues, but primarily synthesized in the branch's apical meristem and young leaves. It's flow is polar, meaning it flows from shoots to roots. Removing the apical meristem reduces suppression of the bud(s) proximal to the pruning cut. Not all buds on a long branch are affected. This is because as a new branch forms at the most distal node, it has an apical meristem which starts to produce auxin. Nodes proximal to the pruning cut become unaffected as soon as the flow of auxin is sufficient to do so. On some occasions this could take only 1 or 2 branches forming to inhibit more lateral branching, on others, 6 or more nodes might be affected. This is determined by the factors listed above (genetics, timing of the pruning cut, the plant's level of vitality, how much stored energy the plant has, the plant's current ability to make its food [photosynthesis]).

Aesthetically, and for trees in pots, terminal buds should only have 2 branches emanating from the branches terminal node and one branch from each intermittent node.

Al

>"genetics, timing of the pruning cut, the plant's level of vitality, how much stored energy the plant has, the plant's current ability to make its food (photosynthesis)" ___ That helps. In the case shown in my photos, I think that the only factor for which I have no indicator is amount of stored energy. I might experiment by delaying for a long time each subsequent cut from any given plant.

If you have a garden and a library, you have everything you need. ~ Cicero

Al

The classic music Indian style. Enjoy.

Check it out.

An early girl tomato, fresh from the vine, with seedlings popping right through the skin. There are several more dark spots, a couple where the skin is split, where more seedlings are about to break through.

Al

With all my decades of tomato growing, I can’t say I have ever seen that. Thanks.

tj

I have a question about planting a Japanese maple out in the yard. I just bought this Acer shirasawanum `Aureum' in a 15 gallon pot. Is it better to wait until spring to first prune the roots, or does that not matter as much since it is leaving its pot and going into the ground? Is it ok to plant it out in the early fall?

It's best to bare root and correct root issues and congestion at planting time; however, if you prune roots/plant it in fall, the roots will need protection against freezing and you'll be unable to provide that protection. I would leave it in the pot as is and over-winter in an attached/unheated garage or dug in and mulched on the north side of a heated building. Just remember to throw a shovel of snow on it every 2-3 weeks or water at that interval. Roots need at least a little moisture to remain viable. Then, as soon as the ground thaws and before the buds are swelling in spring, bare root and do the root work immediately before planting out.

Linda Chalker-Scott PhD has built a solid reputation from debunking horticultural myths. See What She has to Say about how to deal with roots at transplanting time.

Al

Can water be taken into veins of a detached leaf from tip? (opposite end from petiole or attachment point). I need to prevent small leaf from drying until egg on leaf hatches, and egg is near attachment point where water normally would enter.

The leaf has billions of micro-pores through which a small amount of water can pass; but somehow, I'm thinking that whatever hatches will want to feed on the sap, and whatever emerges from the egg might not only be unable to pierce the hardened leaf surface, the sap it will want to feed on will likely have had its chemical composition changed after being detached from all the chemical compounds that keep the plant's systems humming along.

Maybe you could try gluing the dead leaf to a living leaf so the nymph or whatever emerges has only a short journey to the nearest feeding station? Any idea what laid the egg?

Al

>"micro-pores through which a small amount of water can pass" ___ Great, question answered.

>"what laid the egg?" ___ Phoebis philea butterfly.

>"feed on the sap" ___ If leaf is tender enough, then hatchling caterpillar gnaws leaf, making tiny holes, progressively bigger holes as it grows, ultimately all or most of leaf.

>"gluing the dead leaf to a living leaf" __ Excellent idea. Because the usual behavior of this species is to stay unnecessarily long on one leaf, even when leaf is seriously ratty, and relatively little is being consumed, I will glue only the egg-bearing bit of leaf. Can anyone suggest an appropriate glue?

I'd use polyurethane or waterproof wood glue.

Al

@tapla Al, which thread contains your commentary about training birds to eat their food from your hand?

Let me do some looking .....

Edited to say, Find it Here. I posted directions several times on different threads, but the one I linked to is the only one I could find. The carvings are from Mike VanHousen.

Al

Thanks.

Back to the critter (and leaf) recently discussed.

Remnant of egg shell after caterpillar (at right) had first meal of it today.

this guy needs help with media ... gritty mix probably.. as noted there.. thx.. ken

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/6303890/questions-about-transplanting-potted-trees#n=5

hello everyone. do you find your plants leaves look sick after flowering? my lovely jasmine sambac flower monthly from later winter to early fall. it gives around 100 flowers on each flush. after it flower. all those leaves looks a bit sicky. lost its glossy green colour and looks dull and yellow for a while. before it flower, I did give it low nitrogen feed to to boost flower growth. I don't know if I direct all the energy to grow flower, so the leaves looks unhealthy. how do you take care of plants before and after it flower? photo below is my poor jasmine recovering. my potting mix is 2 part of compost with 3 part of grit and bark mix.

when it's healthy. it looks like below, leaves will be more shiny and green and open flat instead of wrinkle leaves.

It lost its glossy green colour and looks dull and yellow for a while. Before it flower, I did give it low nitrogen feed to to boost flower growth. An increase in Nitrogen would support more vegetative growth rather than reproductive growth (blooms/ fruit/ etc). A regular greenhouse practice to slow vegetative growth and stimulate blooming is to decrease the amount of nitrogen supplied relative to the rest of the nutrients essential to normal growth. Commonly this is achieved by finishing (getting the plant ready for sale) with a change from a 3:1:2 ratio to a 2:1:2 ratio, which reduces N by 1/3. You won't need to do that type of manipulation. I don't know if I direct all the energy to grow flower, so the leaves looks unhealthy. how do you take care of plants before and after it flower? A plant allots its food supply/ energy to it's various parts in a particular order, 'pecking order, if you will). Where the plant sends its energy is called an energy sink, and the sinks are prioritized thusly: Energy is first allocated to respiratory function, i.e. to maintenance of living tissues, then, to production of fine roots, followed by flower and seed/fruit production, then primary growth (extension of both roots and shoots), then secondary growth (thickening), and finally, the synthesis of defensive chemicals. You'll notice that flower/ seed/ fruit production comes before primary and secondary growth, which would include branches and leaves. It's not uncommon for blooming plants to show a bit chlorotic from the point in time when blooms are forming to the point in time when fruit/ seeds have matured.

Both images you uploaded suggest there is a nutritional issue in play. How are you fertilizing, how often, with what, and what are the NPK %s. Does it contain Fe and Mg (iron and magnesium, respectively). If it's an Fe deficiency, you might be dealing with a pH issue. Are you using tapwater, or water from another source?

Do you use supplement lighting? If yes, how close to the light are the plants?

Al

“Learn from the mistakes of others. You can’t live long enough to make them all yourself.” ~ Eleanor Rosevelt

thanks for reply Al.

Do you use supplement lighting? If yes, how close to the light are the plants?

yes, I grow it only under supplement light. cause all the natural light spots are occupied. it's 30cm under grow light from the highest point. I also checked with lux meter. the brightest point is 20,000lux, shadiest point is 8,500 lux. I have the light on for 16 hours. most of the leaves are on 14,600 lux to 17,000 lux.

How are you fertilizing, how often, with what, and what are the NPK %s. Does it contain Fe and Mg (iron and magnesium, respectively).

I fertilized it on every fourth watering. water it once every 3 to 5 days. so I fertilized it every 13 days in average. I use dyna gro orchid pro. 7-8-6. I use 1/2tsp per 1/4 gallon. I didn't totally follow the instruction. do I use the correct fertilizer? the reason I choose this one is because it gives detail of what's in the fertilizer and it's almost a balance fertilizer and a little higher on phosphorus,because around half of its new growth are flower and it flower in long season. I use RO water most of the time. I recently test and find out my RO water is at ph 6.5. some other plants also seems to have magnesium and iron deficiency. I occasionally give them bottle water for magnesium fix.

Need to know about early water needs of newly grafted avocado in container : Leafless 0.35" diam scion inserted into top of 0.75" diam root stock that is cut off at 4" above growing medium. Zone 9b Central FL, October. All will be shaded, in adequate natural light.

Pulling low weeds around 1/4" diam vine, weed strands severed vine, I inserted it into ground. Effectively a long cutting. Would liquid fertilizer now be of any benefit?

A low dose of fertilizer would be of some minor benefit insofar as stimulating rooting is concerned, but both the energy (food/ photosynthate) and building blocks (nutrients) required to form new roots will come from the propagule itself. As soon as root primordia develop (small white bumps - the first hint the cutting has rooted [but don't be tempted to pull up the cutting to check on how things are going]) there will be a more efficient pathway by which nutrients can make way into the plant.

You said the cutting is long. If TOO long, there is risk the entire cutting will collapse from an inability to maintain adequate hydration. It's often advantageous to remove a number of leaves from cuttings with a lot of leaf surface, or cut leaves in half across venation to limit transpirational water loss. I'm not sure what type of vine you're dealing with, but many have preformed adventitious roots at every node, which would be a considerable advantage when propagating.

Al

>" fertilizer would be of some minor benefit insofar as stimulating rooting" ___ Then I want to do it.

>"primordia develop (small white bumps" ___ I see them sometimes on cuttings of SOME plants in water, have found them to correlate with successful rooting. Now I know, through what you tell me here, that they ARE roots (rudimentary).

>"You said the cutting is long...." ___ I am glad that you picked up on that, and I will reduce it to an unvinely length.

>"adventitious roots at every node"___ I will go for that by replanting the stem, this time nearly horizontally (now is perfectly vertical).

“Who is wise? He that learns from everyone. Who is powerful? He that governs his passions. Who is rich? He that is content. Who is that? Nobody.”
― Benjamin Franklin

Al

>"primordia develop (small white bumps" ___ I see them sometimes on cuttings of SOME plants in water....

I was pleased to see today the third success of a hundred attempts to root cuttings of this in water.

Many people confuse the terms 'root initials' with 'root primordia'. This is especially prevalent in the fig-growing community for some reason. Root initials can't be seen until they produce root primordia, which is what you are seeing and correctly identifying.

It's time to put your cutting in a solid medium. I know you probably don't want to, but when you stick it using grow medium, you should shorten the branch with the bloom back to the most proximal node with leaves, and the largest leaves on the thicker half of the bifurcation should also be removed.

The existing roots, having developed under water, will be inefficient at taking up water from a solid medium. Reducing the leaf surface area, which decreases evaporative/ transpirational water loss will help prevent the propagule from collapsing due to water stress (lack of water).

Al

>" It's time to put your cutting in a solid medium" ___ Yeah, true. And I will trim in exactly the ways that you recommended.

“Be at war with your vices, at peace with your neighbors, and let every new year find you a better man.” ~ BENJAMIN FRANKLIN

Al

I came in from outdoors, opened the email message that bears the quote in small font, while my eyes were transitioning to narrow focus I read, "Be at war with your wives"

If it rains a lot, does that negatively affect the roots of in-ground plants the same way ovrwatering plants does in containers?

It can, but if it does depends on plant species, the plant's level of vitality, soil structure/composition, and soil temperatures.

Al

Al, this never happened before on any of the hundreds of things that I have rooted; many dozens of this (Pentas lanceolata). Would you say that it was provoked by animal or non-animal agent?

Looks like tissue callus at the cut site. Callus size varies between plant species but is sort of proportional to the thickness of the cutting. Quite large for such a thin cutting though. Did you use some sort of rooting hormone?

Root Gall

Images

Al

I flagged it too, so now its gone.

tj

Thank you to tropicofcancer and to tapla. Gall it is. On stem, somewhat distant from cut site. No rooting hormone. Interesting the term "crown" gall in the photos labels.

Stopping in to say HELLO! It's been a while since I've visited the site. But now that spring is here, my thoughts turn to the green growing everywhere, and so quickly here in the Midwest! And those thoughts include the wonderful and fulfilling information I've learned following Tapla's teachings which have made me a much better gardener!

I've been more successful than I thought I ever would where container grown plants are concerned, and I've even been asked by my daughter to teach her more about gardening, and also about how better to care for her houseplants! It warms my heart and makes me proud that I do have the knowledge to pass on, thanks to Tapla!

In my short walks around the property here, and along the country roads that pass by ours, I've discovered some new plants that I've not seen until this spring... including a light blue Camassia, Dog's Tooth Violet, Jewel weed, and another small bulb that I have not yet identified. The roadside ditches are filled with wild spearmint, wild strawberry plants, and trumpet vine. Both purple and white violets grow in patches across the road.

I can't wait for my Tulip Tree to bud and flower, and there's so much more!

Well, it's time to feed my goat herd, gather milk from a couple of them by hand, and get the poultry fed and eggs collected.

Happy Gardening, Everyone!

Aw shucks. Lol Thanks, Jodi. I appreciate the sentiment. We're getting to be the old timers here.

Al

The sentiments are well deserved, Al. And I must say, I surely do feel like an old timer! Aging is not on my list of things I want to do, I can tell you! Nor is it for the faint of heart!

I'm not sure if it's the lupus I deal with, or aging, or any of a multitude of other issues, or just a combination of everything, but it's frustrating to be forced to scale back on doing the things we enjoy, not to mention the things we have to get done! I feel weaker, and I have to rest more often. Chores take longer to accomplish, and I never seem to get to the bottom of my to-do list! I try to apply "work smarter, not harder", but it's not always as easy as it would seem to put that into practice! And I think the weather, and more to the point the barometric pressure, that also plays quite a role in it all.

I do hope everything is good your way, that your health is good, and that your plants and bonsai are still a great enjoyment for you!

Well... I'm off to try to accomplish some things today, with any luck! LOL! Take care, and I'll check in from time to time to say hi and see how life is treating us old timers... and everyone else who has been bitten by the gardening bug, so to speak!

Happy Gardening!

All's well here. Retired 4 years ago and have been loving it - have plenty to keep me busy and active. Just finished setting up new jet-boat for shallow water fishing. Amazing how far electronics has come. The trolling motor has Spot Lock, which automatically keeps the boat in one spot w/o using an anchor, it can follow a directional setting and keep the boat on a perfectly straight line regardless of wind/waves/current, and automatically navigate from way-point to way point which can be set from the helm using the sonar to set the points on a chart, or it will follow a depth contour. I don't know if I'll ever figure out all the features on the sonar equipment.

I don't do all the mixed planting containers I used to

and I've rid the garden of the ill-behaved ground covers and spreading ground covers I used to be willing to put up with and work to keep corralled. Now, it's pretty muck bones (trees/shrubs) and some well-behaved perennials - just not as ambitious as I used to be.

I've started to cut back on the number of trees I tend. I have so many young trees it's not likely I'll ever see their potential realized, so I've been giving them away or handing them over them to local gardening clubs ...... none of my kids are interested in them other than to look at, so I'll pare the number down to less than 100. 30 tropicals and 50 outdoor trees is more realistic. I forgot how much I enjoyed fishing and I can't be fishing and care for trees at the same time ......

I hope you get to feeling better! Take care.

Al