If you are in such a marginal climate, why not start with something more suitable to the climate? Potatoes, planted outdoors around April 15, are a good start. I would also do garlic, planted in Fall, because it is such a carefree vegetable. I would plant some beans, perhaps with inoculant the first time around, bush or pole depending on trellis availability, around May 15. Finally, plant some zucchini, also directly, also May 15, and even better, some butternut squash for Fall harvest (perhaps short season varieties). They don't need a lot of water to emerge, in fact, beans are notorious for wanting relatively little water.

These are all large seeded, easy vegetables, all planted directly, and they will minimize your failures. In spring, you could also plant chard, which is a robust plant and will give you greens over several months. In August you can still plant for the Fall, and in my experience daikon and turnip are the easiest Fall vegetables to germinate outside in summer, requiring only few waterings before they emerge.

I suggest you also forget about growing tomatoes in winter in Zone 4. You can grow winter things, but they will be parsnip, collard, carrots, arugula, corn salad. Start with the easiest vegetables, then progress to the more difficult ones, and try to grow stuff that is suitable for Zone 4. Melons, peppers, and other hot weather vegetables are more difficult in a cold climate, you will have to garden more like a Northern European.

But I want to grow things that I actually want to eat.. LOL

I eat a lot of tomato, onion, and cilantro... And seeing as the nearest store is many miles away, I have to overbuy, and end up throwing stuff out.. constantly... (Garlic is definitely in my plans later this year)

Tomatoes can't even be grown in artificial conditions in winter? I thought that's why we were able to have them in the stores year round (but don't actually know, to tell the truth).... Or is there a way to store them long term in their fresh form?

I saw a you tube video where a guy was growing tomatoes in a 4' x 4' x4' foot insulated box in his attic.... this is what made me think this was possible and that the time of year was irrelevant....

I 'know' I can grow tomatoes here if I buy plants... I have in the past.. But I am trying to become independent of relying on others for food.. I don't trust the economic environment anymore, nor the integrity of the food chain either... So I want to do it from heirloom seeds.... then harvest the seeds, etc...

I'm not planning on trying to grow veggies year round until sometime down the road.. Right now, I just want to be successful at starting seeds, transplanting them in the garden, harvesting their fruit, and then saving some seeds and successfully doing it again the next year....

I only mentioned the year round thing so that people understand my 'eventual' goals and can keep that in mind.. I don't want that to be the 'focus' at this point..

Right now, I would like to successfully grow the stuff I need for a simple salsa from seed... extending the season and expanding the variety of foods will come later...

I have been selecting seeds that have high yields and short seasons.. stuff that is typically grown in similar climes...

For today, I'd like input on watering the seedlings, soil prep, and if I have enough light for starting and growing seedlings to be transplanted this may/june.. (if not, how much more will I need?)

Well for one, it definitely sounds like you were over-watering . The mold/fungus growing the soil is a sure sign of that is nothing else, but no that isn't damp-off. Check out the FAQs over on the Growing from Seed forum here. In fact most all your questions are covered in detail on that forum.

The waayy too late planting was another issue that you can solve this year. And if you can construct some sort of temp cover or cold frame you can get started even earlier. Short growing season locations/zones benefit enormously from early cover gardening.

Then there is the varieties you choose. You can grow what you want IF you pick the right varieties and take the extra steps needed. Early variety tomatoes will work best for you. Varieties with DTM of 80-90 days plus will be killed by the first frost before they can begin to ripen at all.

Light for seedlings, as you discovered, is very seldom enough from just windows. The intensity is insufficient as is the hours of exposure. Again there is much info about that on the Growing from Seed forum.

Hope this helps.

Dave

Here is a link that might be useful: Growing from Seed forum

I second the advice about direct seeding large-seeded crops, always a good strategy. Presuming the crop and cultivar are well-adapted to prevailing conditions, which makes all the difference.

Regarding onions, if you are willing to eat some alliums other than the giant bulbs of the spanish onion and it's many descendants, try one or more of the marvelous multiplying and/or top setting tribes. There are various web vendors now specializing in these, one such located in AL sold me some rare southern cultivars which I am trying out in a difficult florida site.

Tomatoes as well: the more primeval cherries are much tougher than heirlooms or even the hybrids. If nothing else does well go to cherries.

Awesome Dave...

I looked through the forums for 'seeds' and for 'lights' and didn't find anything.. that's why it was under "G" for growing...

I'm going to copy and paste my original question there...

Thanks!

Tomatoes: yes, overwatering. Not to worry, learning how to water seedlings properly is hard to describe, but once you figure it out it is easy enough to do. Basically you need to check each day, but not necessarily water each day. Their requirements will change as they get bigger, one reason it is hard to describe. Think moist, not soggy. The growing faqs go into detail, so I will leave off there. Anyway, use the heat underneath for germinating the tomatoes and peppers. Aim for a soil temp around 80-85.

Onions. Well, likely you also were overwatering them too. If anying they need less water than tomatoes. Onions are hard to kill by handling them physically. I mean they ship bundles of transplants bareroot all over the country where they then sit in boxes exposed to the air and weather until people buy them, several days. Also, you may be starting even a bit too late this year. Your frost date sounds similar to mine and mine were started the end of January. But give it a go. Also, go now to a local farm store or garden center and see if they have transplants for sale. That will let you hedge your bets and learn the rest of the onion life cycle this year. Onions prefer cool temperatures early in life.

Cilantro. Well, I just throw the seed outside about this time of year and it starts sprouting. For a plant that ends up in a lot of tropical cuisines it has a definite preference for growing in cool weather; I have some small plants that sprouted in fall and are growing now in semi protected areas.

No, you do not need to sterilize the media, the ground outside sure isn't sterile. Hope this helps, cheers!

with bottom watering the water should be in the tray the pots are in. But put only enough water that the soil can get damp ad no more. i f there's excess take the pots out of the tray and empty the tray.
I have a table that has a box on top lined with plastic, that the pots sit in. Iv'e had to scoop excess water out of it, with a cup and a old rag.
most of this stuff is just learn as you go, and just takes practice. Even after 13 years of gardening I am have trouble with my onions.

I am in north PA and my zone is way colder than north cal and I am zone 5b...

I grow huge tomatoes every year. In fact, people in Maine grow huge tomatoes every year.

By the sounds of it, it sounds like you for sure over watered.

Here is some tips-

Use potting soil right out of the bag.

Wait till plant wilt before watering or the container is so light you can pick it up and it feels 'paper' light. Understand the reason hydroponics grow so fast is due to Oxygen at the roots, so the dry time the plant is growing faster than right after watering. This is just how it is with potting mix.

Fertilize at 1/2 strength.

And that is it. You dont need to do anything more. I found the less complicated you make it, the more harvest you get.

This post was edited by TheMasterGardener1 on Thu, Mar 7, 13 at 13:08

Did your tomato cups have holes in the bottom? Big enough for excess water to drain out?

I have found that sterilizing potting soil helps a lot. Some soil is sterilized when you buy it and some isn't; the labels don't usually say. Consequently, you may find a brand that you don't have to do anything to. If you do sterilize it, I recommend baking it in your oven for an hour or so at 150.

Yes, tomatoes need heat to germinate, if your house is not warm. So do zucchini and other squashes, and beans.

Re: transplanting: Focus on dividing the roots, not the top parts of the plants. Hold the plant cup in one hand, spread the fingers of the other hand over the soil with the plants in between your fingers. Tilt the pot on its side or close to upside down, squeeze gently and shake gently, so the dirt + roots come out into your other hand.

Gently separate the dirt/root systems. Try to keep the dirt on the roots -- don't end up with only bare rooted plants.

Repot with only one plant per pot. Don't transplant again until roots have grown enough that, when you remove plant from pot, all the dirt holds together in one mass. Preserve that mass when you plant -- don't 'separate the roots'.

HTH :).

I’m not sure if this will totally’ help you out, because you live somewhere in the mountains. Yet, this guy does live in California too and grows a lot of veggies in his front yard. This guy has got his planting cycle dialed in and I bet you could gain some good info from him. His channel in nothing but gardening, well almost. Sometimes he goes crazy, like rick on the Walking Dead.

Here is a link that might be useful: growingyourgreens.com

Hi Mark,
Also in NCal a bit lower than you, but not IN the mountain so not surrounded by overshadowing trees.

I understand the micro climate varies greatly in NCal. But in my garden, I sow Cilantro, Spring Onion, and snow peas in late fall instead of the spring. In November and December, they usually start slow. But from February on, I can't keep up with the harvest. A decade or two ago, I used to start these in the spring. But like your garden, the seeldings I started in spring seem more prone to transplant shock, and sometimes the early heat spell brings mold and made the plants very unappetizing. Since then, I start all cool weather crops in the fall, and harvest through early summer.

I think you're probably doing everything right for your summer corps. The difference between us is my yard is dry and sunny like the desert in the summer. And we probably have different transplanting schedule. I think I start summer seeds around Feb/March, and transplant Toms around late May. I also direct sow zucchini, beans, ettc in March, May, August. Not because I like that, but because the spring corps is still harvesting and occupying the limited space (raised beds on the hill). The only advantage of my schedule is that I haven't had the need for heating pads. The seedling trays are either in the garage, green house window, or covered patio. When help needed, I put them in the furnace room for a few night but mostly not.

And yes, I consume a lot of veggies and herbs, and they're mostly grown in the yard except root vegetables and dry onions. The raise beds do not grow root veggies well because I put chicken wires on the bottoms.

I am down in the Bay Area, warmer but our nighttime temps can get into the high 20's. I just started my tomato seeds last weekend. I plant the seeds in 6 oz yogurt cups with 4 holes punched in the bottom (about 3mm each). I plant in plain old Supersoil Potting Mix. I put the soil in the cups dry then soak it through really good. Plant a seed in each one then spritz once more with a pump sprayer just to make sure the seed is good and moist. I keep the cups in a plastic tray with a dome, but any kind of loose cover to keep in humidity will work. I've used a plastic Rubbermaid bin that I've drilled holes in the top. That works. I leave them in the house until they sprout.

I water them about once a week using a pump sprayer so as not to disturb the soil. Soak them until water starts dripping out the holes in the bottom. In the larger yogurt cups, you don't need to water more often than every 5-7 days, but when you do water, don't be stingy.

The split second they sprout (and I mean split second to keep them from bolting for sun), I move them out to my workshop, which is a Tuff Shed unheated.

They go under plain old shop lights. I have some reflective insulated panels I place around the seeds. The lights provide enough heat, and the insulated panels holds the heat in well enough even on those cold nights. I leave the lights on a timer about 14 hours a day (5 a.m. to 7 p.m.) and try to keep them about 2 inches above the plants, which means you'll need to be able to adjust the height as the seedlings grow.

Below is a link to my gardening blog which shows my seed set-up out in the shop. I've never had a solitary problem, and all the plants I start from seed always outperform the occasional plants I might pick up at a garden store. I buy good seeds though. Johnny's is my choice, but there are other reputable companies.

When the tomatoes outgrow the yogurt cups, I move them up to the Solo (keggar cups, I call them). By then, the weather is getting close to planting and I start leaving them in the yard during the day and bringing them in at night. You'll see lots of posts on my blog under the label "Seed Starting" that has plenty of pictures.

Hope this helps! Incidentally, it's the folks on this forum who taught me most everything I needed when starting my garden, so you're definitely in the right place!

Here is a link that might be useful: Tomato Seed Starting

Just thought I might add a few suggestions to all the advice already given. Don't skimp on potting soil.. Pro-Mix HP is fantastic and found here at my Lowes store in a bale for 29 bucks. Some potting mixes will promote dampening off disease no matter how little water you give. I think you said you use well water.. if there is any question of ph or hardness use distilled water or rain water on your seedlings. I'm at 3400ft now and lived at 7200ft for years and gardening is timing, so KEEP a journal. I now garden in a cold valley north of Tucson, Az and nothing I plant is on the same schedule as gardener friends only a couple of miles from me.