Forget it, its a waste of time and money, don't even try it. Now that's what I wanted to say, but I didn't say that. I just think you are taking something that is pretty simple and trying to make it complicated. steve

Yeah... What everyone else said ditto ;-)
Plus, You really don't have any idea how good your soil is,
you could have wonderful soil and produce a MONSTER like this...this is one SunGold Tomato plant.. I lopped it off at eight foot tall twice, but it grew and grew and grew... are you ready for that on your lawn...OY ;-)

{{gwi:22414}}

borderbarb - I was reading that stuff about tomato roots you linked to a couple days ago, when I first started wondering about this. I think it was written back in the 1920's, and it's pretty interesting. I think you're right that root competition wouldn't be that much. Maybe it could be estimated by the relative size of a tomato plant vs grass? And if the grass is cut and left there, some of it would go back into the soil. I'm sure there are other things to consider though, so experimenting may be the only way to really find out.

glib - Good point about cutting the grass. If I do it this way, I'll have to find a way to trim between the tomatoes. Or just let the grass grow. But that could be a mess.

digdirt - Yeah, I'm thinking it would probably work alright. But I'm trying to understand the kinds of problems I'd be creating. And I'm sure I'd be creating a few:) I'm also wondering if there would be any benefits to leaving the grass, that would compensate for some of these problems.

gumby - Slugs are definitely a problem. But I'm wondering how much grass I'd have to remove for it to make a difference. I don't think I'll be able to remove the grass between the rows. I'm planning to collect a few slugs, and do some experiments to see what kinds of barriers might work. I know some people use dryer lint. And I read that cotton balls can help in a similar way. And cotton balls are cheap, and I can buy a lot of them. So one idea I have is to wrap cotton near the bottom of each stem. But I'm skeptical. Those things will climb across anything to find food. I may have to resort to hand picking.

I'm not worried about water. But maybe I should be? One thing I read is that using too much "good organic matter" in planting holes for landscape plants can cause issues with water and root development. Something about the differences between the drainage properties of the amended soil in the hole vs the non-amended soil surrounding it. I don't know if it applies to tomatoes though. But I'm taking it into consideration anyway.

Nutrient competition is one of my concerns. I'm just wondering how much of an issue it really is. Would it lower my yields by 5%? I could live with that. 50% would be a problem.

I tried a form of lasagne gardening last year, with layers of straw and compost. And I also tried planting directly in straw bales. This year, I'm hoping those beds will be in better shape since the straw has had more time to break down. If I decide to remove the grass, I'll most likely cover it with some kind of mulch, similar to the lasagne method.

I'm working on a trellising system. dcarch has an interesting method, and I'm considering a variation on that. I thought about using a Florida weave, but I'd need an awful lot of posts.

stevesd - I know. I'm really good at making simple things complicated:) But I'm also good at making complicated things simple, so my way of doing things does have its advantages. At least it works for me. And I have a feeling there's something worth learning by discussing this. So far it's been interesting.

jonhughes - I'm trying some Matt's wild cherry, so I may have some monsters like your sungold. And some Italian tree tomatoes. Those are supposed to be huge too. That picture of your sungold gave me an idea. I'm wondering if it would help keep the deer out, if I planted some of the wild cherry around the perimeter, just inside my fence. I heard that deer are less likely to jump a fence if they can't see what they're landing in.

Another consideration is the kind of fertilizer used on the lawn. Lawns generally need high nitrogen fertilizers and tomatoes will produce huge leafy plants but little fruit with that. If you fertilize the lawn in spring, keep it away from where you plan to put in the tomatoes and use a vegetable garden fertilizer there. The lawn may suffer some but the tomatoes will be better for it.

Gardeners experiment all the time with new ways of doing things. Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

Sandy

That's what I hear too ! !

You can see I have my "invisible fence" close to my raised beds to also help deter those stupid deer ;-)

{{gwi:8596}}

gardener_sandy - I'm not planning to fertilize the lawn. It's not much of a lawn anyway. It's more like a field of grass and weeds. And it's already been "fertilized" by the local deer population:) I'm just hoping they haven't overdone it. I walked out there yesterday for the first time since the snow melted, and I thought wow! Look at all that free fertilizer! I had to clean it off my shoes before I walked in the house. But now I'm wondering if it'll be a problem. I think I at least need to keep it uncovered for a while, so the sun has a chance to reduce any possible disease problems. I'd be happy to hear any thoughts on the subject.

jonh - How's that fence working? It's the same thing I'm planning on doing, except I'm using welded wire and chicken wire on the bottom, instead of chain link. My trellising system should also add some visual distractions to add to their confusion. I think it worked in my old space last year. But it was really hard to tell, since the weather wasn't good for tomatoes. And the slugs ate what actually did grow. So if there was any deer damage, I could easily have missed it. But I don't remember seeing any hoof prints inside the garden.

Ok..good grief! Be sure and plant a lot of them, cause you won't get many tomatoes from each plant. 50 percent yield? You won't even come close. You might get a 20 percent yield, but blossom end rot will get most of that making it innedible. Nothing you can do will help. Ive grown tomatoes in different climates for more than 40 years, and although I like to try different methods, I can't escape the science of fruit production. The more you fertilize and water, the better the grass will grow. But the tomatoes can't escape the inexorable drain of nutrients by the grass. They wont compete. steve

stevesd - If the tomatoes simply can't compete with the grass, I'll remove the grass. That's what I'm trying to find out. But how much is enough? 1 foot? 3 feet? I suppose if I treat the grass like any other plant, and calculate the spacing that way I should be alright. Now I just need to find out the recommended spacing for grass:)

I think I'm getting it now. I need to study weed management:)

I agree that the tomatoes will lose out in competition with the grass for water and nutrients. Also, how will you amend the soil or even loosen it up enough if you are trying to work in a little hole? Even if you make the holes bigger to start (a 1 foot circle for example), you will be annoyed with having to mow around the holes and the grass will creep into the tomato area and make the 'hole' smaller and smaller over the season.

I think you are better to remove a strip of grass, about 18 inches wide and as long as you want (spacing the plants 2 feet apart). You will be able to add compost and loosen up the soil. If you need to return the area to grass next year, just sprinkle grass seed on the soil and it will grow back to lawn.

You said, 'One thing I read is that using too much 'good organic matter' in planting holes for landscape plants can cause issues with water and root development. Something about the differences between the drainage properties of the amended soil in the hole vs the non-amended soil surrounding it.'

This applies to trees, shrubs, and perenial plants which stay in the same spot and whose roots will need to move out of the planting hole as they grow over the years. You don't have to worry about this with tomatoes or any annual plant. Just be certain your planting hole is big enough. You can mix in a ton of organic material and the plants will love it.

The only caution is if your soil is really poorly draining. Then your planing holes will become water logged. If that's the case you are much better to make simple raised beds above ground. You can test for drainage by digging a 1 foot by 1 foot hole, filling it with water, and seeing how long it takes for the water to drain out into the surrounding soil. If the water level drops an inch an hour you have adequate drainage.

As far as slugs, I haven't heard that dryer lint or cotton balls are any kind of deterrent for slugs. I have used diatomaceous earth, beer traps, and hand picking. This website is useful: http://www.eartheasy.com/grow_nat_slug_cntrl.htm

Well, I would clear a space at least 3 foot wide, 4 foot would be even better. If the grass is a type that is easy to kill, spade it under. If not so easy, spray with roundup when it is growing vigorously, wait a couple of weeks and then spray again before spading. Your breaking sod here so you need to give it a couple of weeks after the spading so the roots and grass can have a chance to decay a little. Hoe in some compost or steer manure if you have it,along with a good fertilizer like 3-1-3, or 10-5-10, not too much,say 1 cup per plant. Rake smooth, plant 2 to 4 feet apart, cage or stake,mulch deeply, watch em grow, pick tomatoes. You will be happy that you did this. Make sure they get about 1 inch of rain or irrigation every week. Its simple, its not fool proof but it gives you a great chance of success. I would add some fertilizer about every 3 weeks or use a liquid feed. Dont let irrigation water get on the leaves, pick off pests like hornworms, keep picking tomatoes. Its really fun and its easy. tomatoes are without a doubt the easiest garden plant to grow and are grown by millions of people. You can eat the fruit fresh, can, freeze, dry, make sauce. You are gonna have a lot of tomatoes to deal with so get ready for a summer of great eating. Happy gardening, steve

I agree with a 3-4ft perimeter to help reduce the slugs. Make it something like coarse sand they don't like to crawl on. You'd be wasting your time with dryer lint or cotton balls....lol.

btw - you never said how many plants you are planning?

But if you have deer - all I can say is O deer!!!
Damage by deer would have been more severe than any slug damage. The deer usu. just nibble off the tops of the plants. But if you have a herd, well plant enuff for all of them ;)

Everyone here is trying to have him buy a Jaguar. He is looking for a Pinto. He knows he is going to get fewer tomatoes, and anyway the slugs do not particularly like tomatoes. Sure the tomatoes will not lose against the grass. The tomatoes go down to 4 ft, the grass goes down 4 inches. Not optimal, but something edible will come out of it.

potterhead - Digging an 18" strip is similar to what I've done before. Except I did 4 foot wide beds, and double dug. They were completely surrounded by grass, and I planted to within 9 inches of the edges. But I didn't get the digging done until late in the season, so everything got planted late. I thought the tomatoes did alright, considering the late start. But since I planted so late, I really don't know what the potential is for that method. This year I'm starting with a new spot again, and I need a lot more than just a few beds. So I want to minimize the digging as much as possible, so I won't be late again. I also want to minimize grass removal, in case I need to restore it. But I'll remove more, if it's really necessary. And if regrowing the grass isn't that big a deal, like you said, I may not need to worry about it so much.

Another question I have is, how much do I really need to loosen up the soil? I really don't want to double dig this year. But I was thinking I could just loosen up the top layer with a digging fork. And then next year, I'd have time to improve some of it if necessary. That drainage test sounds like a good idea. Thanks.

As far as the slugs go, I'm going to do some experimenting with different barriers. But I have a feeling I'm going to be doing a lot of hand picking this year. I'm considering trying beer or yeast inside my garden, to lure them away from my tomatoes. But I'm wondering if that would end up attracting more slugs from my neighbors' yards. What if I put the beer/yeast outside the garden? Would that lure them out of the garden?

steve - It sounds like I need at least 18" strips, according to potter. And 3-4 foot strips, if I understand you correctly, would be even better. I don't have steer manure, but I've got plenty of deer manure. I hope that works. Once I get done researching weed management, I can really start obsessing about fertilizer:)

gumby - I want to plant as many as I can. Last year I did just over 100. But my plants got a late start, and all I had to show for it were some well fed slugs. This year I have a lot more space, and I'm thinking 1000 maximum. But that's only if I can come up with an efficient system, that I'm comfortable will work well. Right now I have a lot of stuff to consider, like weeds, grass, trellising, slugs, etc. And I don't have a large budget. So I may end up with half that. And yeah, I have deer:) Lots of 'em. But I'm not as worried about the deer as I am about slugs. I think my fence will keep the deer out.

glib - I used to have a pinto, back when I was in college. I had it for less than a day, and it caught on fire while I was driving it home. The whole front end was cooked. Anyway, you're right that I'm aiming kinda low this year. I'll be happy with less than ideal conditions, as long as I have a clear idea how I can improve on it next year, without having to start over again. I may end up removing less grass this year, and mainly concentrate on weeds. Or I may remove enough grass to get everything planted. Then continue to remove more grass, along with the weeds, after that.

Going against the grain here. I have seen this done in Texas and Minnesota It works. dig a hole about the size of a 5 gal. bucket dump some manure in the hole, about 2 shovels full(optional) refill the hole part way. Plant the tomato leaving a couple of inches lower than the surrounding soil for easy watering. The yield will be there and we all know you can prune or steak if needed.

Curt :-)

curt - Have you seen this done in the middle of a lawn, without removing the surrounding grass?

Taking Curt's advice and going a step further ;-)

How about dig out a hole for a five gallon bucket,cut the bottom off of the bucket, put the bucket in the ground (leave 6" sticking out of the ground,fill the bucket with some killer soil/amendments/, plant your tomatoes, I'll bet you'll get plenty... by the time the tomato roots get past the bottom of the bucket they will be far lower than the sod,they will be kickin' butt and takin' names ;-)

Notice at the very end of my video that just inside the fence I have trash cans ,cut in half and the top half buried about 12" deep into the soil..
Yeah.. Just like that ;-)

Here is a link that might be useful: Trash cans cut in half and buried 12

curt and jon - I can see how that could work. You're putting the manure where the tomato plant has easy access, but nothing else does. So there's no significant competition for the stuff at the bottom of the hole. I can imagine the tomato plant putting a lot of roots in there, so nothing else can get to it. Another form of weed management, by just putting the food out of their reach vertically, instead of horizontally. I wonder what would happen if you drilled a deep hole. Filled it with good stuff. Then dropped a tall transplant in the hole. Would the tomato be encouraged to send its roots deep, and out of reach of shallow rooting grass? I wonder if I could rent some kind of power auger. Drill about 1000 holes. Then fill 'em back up with the loosened dirt, and some tall transplants? Would that help if water was scarce near the surface? And would there be enough drainage after a heavy rain?

Oops, I hit the submit button before I was finished. I had one more question. If a tomato plant sent most of it's roots deeper than usual, would it find enough food down there? I'm really not looking forward to digging up all that grass:)

I think the easiest thing to do would be to mulch a foot around the base of the tomatoes. You could probably get away with 6 inches. Plant the tomato, then lay down a layer of cardboard or a layer of 4-6 pages of newspaper (non-glossy ink) and then mulch with compost or straw or grass clippings etc. You might need to do a thicker starting layer of newspaper to smother the weeds, but most of the grass should be smothered.

homer - That's what I was thinking earlier today. I was calculating how much cardboard, paper, straw, or whatever I'd need for 1000 plants. If I could get away with a foot in each direction it wouldn't be so bad. That's in addition to about a one foot diameter planting hole.

I'm still wondering about drilling deep holes though. And I just found some relavant information. I'm going to post the link, and I hope it works.

Here is a link that might be useful: this is related to the deep hole thing - Helping Plants to Need Less Irrigation

1000 plants? That's quite a few tomatoes... It just might be easiest to till up a bed and then mulch the whole thing with straw. That's what I would do with that many plants. Digging a hole in hard dirt 1000 times would be very daunting indeed.

But, if that's what you want to do, then go right ahead. To answer your question, it depends on how big your transplants are. I always pinch the bottom branches off so there's 4-6 inches from the bottom branch to the top of the plant, then plant up to the last leaves. The little hairs on the stem grow into roots and the plants take off. Keeping this in mind, if you've got 12 inch plants, plan on 8 inch holes.

So many interesting/instructive posts! Re: planting 1000 [or even 100] toms .... the work of digging holes will ruin the lawn nearby, so saving the lawn becomes a moot question. Finding enough cardboard/newspaper to mulch that many pathways between planting rows is a challenge. Tree trimmer's mulch, maybe? If you get enough, can DEEP mulch to discourage weed/grass growth between rows.
===
The half trash can thing seems very doable for home gardener [I'm going to try it]... but for 1000 plants?
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I didn't see if you mentioned your soil type & growing zone/season.[must be pretty wet, if slugs are that big a problem] Also are you growing commercially?
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BTW thanks for the link to site on water-saving planting techniques.

I did the same type of thing last year with some perennials. I needed to throw some flowers in fast, for an appraisal and wanted the front of the house to look good. I dug out some grass, put in the flowers...and it looked great for about three weeks. Then, the grass grew HUGE from all the manure I put with the flowers and the extra water. I cut the grass a few times, but it got to the point I just dug everything up in the fall and moved it. This year, I have to dig out ALL the grass, edge the bed and start over.

We got the appraisal to refinance and it turned out well...so mission accomplished (LOL). At least tomatoes are an annual, so it will be easier to dig everything out next year, if you have to take out more grass. Good luck with your experiment :)

borderbarb - I'm not even sure I would call it a lawn anymore. It probably was at one time, but now it looks like a grassy field with what I think is queen anne's lace. If I were to mow the whole thing, it would probably look like a lawn though. I'm thinking drilling a bunch of holes would be less disruptive than tearing out strips of grass. But I haven't actually done it, so I don't really know what it would look like.

I think collecting a 1000 of anything would be difficult. So I'm trying to find a method that doesn't require it. I'm considering straw. But mulching for a 1000 plants would, I'm guessing, require about 200 bales. Not impossible. But I'd like to avoid it if I can. Black plastic may be an option. But something tells me it's not what I want to do.

I'm in southeast Michigan, and I'm pretty sure the soil in my new spot is clay. The zone could be 5b. But I've read it's been changed to 6. I'd like to grow for a market. That's why I'm considering 1000 plants. But if I can't come up with a good plan real soon, I'll scale it back this year, and just do some more experimenting. Last year we had cold, cloudy, wet weather. And I planted in straw bales. My slugs were very happy.

lavender_lass - I might skip the manure part. If I do use some, I'll probably bury it deep, so the grass can't get to it. The weeds might though. But if I keep them mowed, they might just give up after a while.

Haha if it isn't perfect then some won't bother but I will tell you this...I've grown many plants and veggies by digging a hole in the dirt...compacted caliche, and losening it up and filling the hole with good soil...and did I mention planting there. My first garden right here on this property was all the dirt/scraps/wood pieces etc that was scraped off the driveway to make a bed so the trucks could get in. Was it good dirt...did I make a beautiful garden...No I didn't dig at all. I took a rake and mounded that trash pile into rows and stuck plants in it as I described above...Did I have the worlds best garden, no but I had a garden and we had a goodly amount of veggies from it. Somewhere I have a picture...It isn't pretty but it grew veggies...

I say go for it...you got nothing to lose but some elbow grease and a few pennys for seeds.

ruthieg - I'm definitely not worried about it being perfect. Last year was a total loss, unless you happened to be a slug. But this year it looks like I have some nice beds started from that experiment, where I left the straw bales and compost. Too bad it doesn't get a lot of sun. I'll be happy if I just get acceptable results from my new spot this year. I just want to give my tomatoes the best chance I can, with limited resources. If things go well this year, I can improve it next year. I already bought the seeds. So if I can get by without any major expenses, I'll probably do it.

I just looked up queen anne's lace, and found out it's really a carrot. So a lot of my weeds are actually supposed to be good companions for tomatoes. I had planned on interplanting a few carrots, just to help the tomatoes--I don't think it's a good idea to eat root veges from this soil, because of all the deer droppings. But now I won't have to, if I just let some of the weeds grow:) But that still leaves me with grass, and some other weeds. But drilling deep holes might solve that problem.

LOL! Good LUCK! I LOVE to garden, but....you've exhausted me just reading about digging 1,000 holes...trying to keep the weeds & grass at bay & them not stealing nutrients.

Have a good year at the market!

gardning; Yup when I lived in Dallas my landlord did it in his back yard. I think the grass was St. Augustine. That's a runner like Bermuda. Any ways he dug six holes and planted the maters like a peony or rose . I did not think at the time it would work, but it sure did. As a side thought could you spray Roundup in a larger circle than you would dig before planting? That would take care of the weeds for the first of the growing season. If I missed organic comments I am sorry.

Curt :-)

Be careful. Tomatoes are very sensitive to Roundup.

Zeuspaul

forpityssake - Digging 1000 holes, and removing 5000+ square feet of grass by hand would probably kill me:) I've done a few small beds, and that was bad enough. And it didn't take long to break my "unbreakable" digging fork.

curt and zeuspaul - I'm trying to be as "organic" as possible. Not necessarily what the USDA would consider organic. But whatever makes sense for me. I'm planning to avoid herbicides, pesticides, etc. unless there's no other alternative. So my best bet is probably some kind of mulch for the grass.

everyone - Thanks for all the help! I learned a lot. I'm considering a few options.

1) Drill holes with a power auger, about the size of 5 gallon buckets. A 9-12 inch diameter auger, 2-3 feet deep would be about right. Then mulch around that to give me 18-36 inch diameter circles. My 2 concerns with this method are the noise from drilling 1000 holes. And whether or not I'd be cutting up a lot of earthworms.

2) Collect lots of cardboard. Lay that down, and weight it down with compost. Then dig shallow holes in that, just deep enough for my transplants. One possible problem with this is, will my soil be loose enough for good root penetration? I really don't know, but I'm thinking if I got enough earthworms, they'd aerate the soil for me. And if the roots from the grass decayed, that would help too.

3) The same as 2, but use wheat straw instead of cardboard. But I'd need a lot of straw, and it wouldn't be cheap. And I'd probably be importing some weed and wheat seeds.

Look at it like this. If tomatoes would grow in the grass ok. Don't you think people would have grown them that way for years. Also why would we even bother getting the grass out of the garden. You are wasting your time and money. But try it. It your time and money. Plant some right in the grass. Also plant some in a area with 3 feet of grass removed and the soil dug up real good. Then plant some in your garden keep the weeds out, water and fertilize them then you tell us what worked better. Know one is saying you want get one tomato, but what you will get want have any size and not many tomatoes.

mrdoitall - I'm sold on the idea of removing the grass. I understand now you need to reduce competition. It makes sense to me. But just because everyone's always done something a certain way isn't enough to convince me it's worth doing. Sometimes people have no idea why they're doing something, and just do it because everyone else does. But everyone else may be doing it for the same reason. And the reason may have been valid at one time, but no longer is. Maybe it's only valid under certain conditions. Or maybe it was never valid at all. But just an idea someone had at one time, that sounded good, but really wasn't. And sometimes someone's just trying to sell something, so they come up with a good story. One example is tilling vs no till. Why do all that work if doing nothing might be better? I could follow someone else's formula, and get good results. But since I'm trying to do this on a fairly large scale--at least it's large for me--it's worth taking the time to eliminate steps that aren't necessary. Besides, I just like doing things this way.

Try It!! Take some pictures for us to see how it works out for you. I am very lazy and don't like extra work! So here is what I do! My garden is 40 x 120 and weed free. All plants and rows between plants has weed block down and are mulched real good with pine needles.I have drip irrigation. I plant the seed or plants, put down the weed block mulch heavy in the middle of the row. Put the drip irrigation down all at the same time. The only weeds I have to pull is buy the plants. After the seed come up I rake some of the mulch closer to the plants,about 3 inches from the plants. My neighbor plant there garden and that it. They let it go after 60 days you can't see the garden plants for the grass and weeds. Bugs eat up everything! I get more tomatoes off 1 plant than they get off 10 plants,in all that grass and weeds. Now that that is said. I have changed the way I garden over the years and have found that, what I do now is so much less work. Now it's like plant it watch it grow pick it then cook it then eat it. All the work is planting, putting down weed block and mulch, canning and putting veg in the freezer. I use 4 foot spacing on my rows, Because My weed block if 4ft wide. Also I like to walk down my rows without touching the plants. Now if you want to plant in the grass try it. But I would dig out at least 2 feet of the grass for each plant. Dig a hole 3 ft wide x 1 ft deep put in some fertilizer and compost plant the tomato plant put down weed block over the 3 ft area them put down mulch. Don't let the mulch touch the tomato plants, keep it 3 or 4 inches away from the plants. Also if you are going to use cages to support the tomato plants put them up now. Do every thing now that way you can just set back and watch them grow. "I use pine needles for mulch. I get it for free from my neighbor. They rake it bag it. Then I get the bags of pine needles and take it to my garden area. I have about 50 to 75 bags now. and about 20 bags left from last year. Keep your tomatoes watered and watch them grow. keep the grass pulled that grows right next to the tomato. You do this and you will have some tomatoes to eat. Plant in the grass and you want,all you will have is ugly plants and bugs!!! Good luck with your tomatoes.

Mrdoitall: The OP is growing 1000 plants. Tilling up the entire area and adding amendments, gathering materials for mulching the entire area, and figuring out irrigation would be both very expensive and lots of work. Drilling a hole in the ground with an auger, adding some compost, planting the tomato, then laying down wet newspaper and adding mulch would be much more efficient and a lot less work and a whole lot cheaper. Landscape fabric could take the place of newspaper if you wanted to go that way, but it wouldn't break down or add anything to the soil. Newspaper would be the best and cheapest option. Start saving now and ask your neighbors if you can have their old ones.

I think you'll be over doing it if you mulch out 3 feet. I would do 6 inches on either side, 8 at the most. You don't want to remove the grass, so don't do more than is necessary. Like has already been said, tomato roots go down 4 feet and grass roots go 4 inches.

mrdoitall and homer - I may be in better shape than I thought. Since I didn't mow the spot at all last year, the grass has some pretty thick thatch. And that may help to weaken it. I read up on it, and found out that new grass may grow mainly in the thatch, and not in the soil. And if I manage things correctly, I might be able to thin out the grass that I don't want, without too much effort. I figure if that works, I can just pull or cut the occasional bunch of grass that does grow. And maybe pile on more mulch as the season progresses. I have a lot of leaves I could pile on. But I'm paranoid about black walnut leaves, since they could kill the tomatoes. So I'm hesitant to use them. But I do have some pine needles, like mrdoitall mentioned. And I wouldn't have any trouble telling those apart from walnut leaves.

I still like my way best ;-)
No issues with weed barriers or grass or ???

Trash Can Planters buried 12", bottoms cut off, augered down 3', awesome soil mix put in...plant plant plant ;-)

{{gwi:28887}}

Small bucket Planters buried 6", bottoms cut off, augered down 3', awesome soil mix put in...plant plant plant ;-)

{{gwi:28888}}

john - I couldn't afford the larger trash cans in the quantity I need. But if the smaller ones are 1 gallon pots, I've seen those pretty cheap in bulk. It looks like you've got a nice organized setup. A lot better than mine was last year.

The trash cans were old.. (free)

The little ones are 2 or 3 gallon and totally free, all landscapers have to pay to dump them...go get them ! !, where I got mine ,the landscaper didn't want to pay to dump them so he made this huge pile in back of his yard...YIPES had to be thousands there ! ! I should have taken a pic ;-)

This if how you need to grow 1000+ Tomato plants!
[IMG]http://i736.photobucket.com/albums/xx7/BamaMan55/Tomatoplants.jpg[/IMG]

We needed space for a couple of extra tomato plants a few years ago. We removed grass in two four foot diameter circles. We also dug in soil amendments to enrich the soil and to get better drainage. We have a yard similar to your description, a combo of grass and weeds. Even with a good layer of mulch, weeds had to be pulled regularly. End result was both tomato plants grew and produced nicely. Personally, I would not try growing tomatoes with clearing and preparing a space for them.

This is the way to grow 1000+ tomato plants.

{{gwi:28889}}

jonh - Thanks for the tip. I may need a lot of pots, even if I don't use them in the garden. I'm starting all of my plants in soil blocks, and I don't know how well those will hold up if I need to leave them outside, and it rains.

mrdoitall - Do you happen to have 1000 stakes I could borrow? :)

opal - I'm planning now to clear space. And I'll probably do it with a mulch. But I'm going to wait and see how much grass grows before I decide what to use.

Well "gardningscomplicated" What did you do with the 1000 tomatoes? How did you plant then? how are they growing? Let us see some pictures of them. I planted tomatoes in my garden as always. And planted some in the grass near my deck and at the end of my garden. I used my tractor post hole digger to dig the holes about 3 ft deep. I have keep the grass out of them in a 1 foot radius area of the plant. they are doing ok. They are only about 1/2 the size of the garden tomatoes. But they are doing better than I expected. How are yours doing?

Why not just get some inexpensive timber, frame out a raised bed, lay some newspaper down on top of your grass and fill it in with topsoil? Plant in that.

We're in the process of replacing 5,000 sq feet of lawn with vegetables and more water-conserving shrub/flower beds. I don't intend to dig a solitary hole or till anything. We're going over the top of everything. For the vegetables, I did the newspaper/topsoil method. A year later, I haven't got a single blade of grass or weed coming up through it and...well...my vegetables would be doing great if we'd get something that resembles spring.

Granted, you wouldn't want to do that for 1,000 plants, but if you cut your volume down and planted in quality soil, you wouldn't need so many.

Just another angle for you....

I agree, if you can get double the production by using better methods, you would only have to plant 500 plants. I think that would make more sense.

mrdoitall - I haven't planted yet, but I was hoping to get started this week. My seedling are doing pretty well though. I still have about 850 I haven't killed yet. I'll need to take some cuttings if I'm going to end up with 1000. I was planning to make hills of dirt, compost, pulled weeds, grass clippings, straw, etc. But I won't know for sure how things will go until I actually try it. I thought I had a good supply of dirt right next to my new space, but it turned out to be hard as a rock. So I'm considering my other options. I don't have a working camera setup, so pictures will have to wait. I have more urgent things like fencing, planting, slug barriers and trellising, to deal with first. And I kinda got distracted watching the oil spill. What a mess.

loribee - I'm going to do something similar, except I'm planning to make a hill for each plant, instead of covering the entire garden. And I won't be using any framing, since I don't think it's necessary in my case. I may cut down the number of plants, once I see how things are going. I figure I'll get to a certain point, and just call it done.

kay-jay - I agree too. 1000 is a number I came up with as the absolute maximum for this year. I'm using it as a goal, and so I have to figure out how to do things on a larger scale. I may only get halfway this year. But next year I'll have worked out enough of the problems, and it should get easier.

I have to ask: What are you doing with all those tomatoes?

loribee - I'm still working on that one:)