Christie,

Benary's Giants do, indeed, have "some of those yellow things". They are called pollen florets. The stigmas are the thin yellow "forks" at the base of each petal that receive the pollen to fertilize the seed that the petal is attached to.

"It's kind of hard to find tall single colors that aren't double. I want butterflies!"

Well, the Zowie that you mentioned in the other thread isn't exactly single, but it puts out a lot of pollen, so it might be to your taste. However, all zinnias put out some pollen florets, which contain the nectar that attracts bees, butterflies and hummingbirds. So, if you have a lot of zinnias, you will have a lot of all three.

If you actually want zinnias that aren't double, there are some strains of Whirligigs that have "run out" in open field culture, and have a lot of single bi-colored and tri-colored flowers. They look sort of like daisies, and can be quite pretty. One strain of Whirligigs that you might like is available as the Whirligigs from Parks. Based on your preferences, I think that you would totally enjoy growing a lot of them. As I have mentioned elsewhere, I much prefer double zinnias, and I have culled a lot of single zinnias that appeared in my zinnia patch. Some of them looked so pretty that it actually hurt me to do it. But I am trying to stick to my breeding objectives.

Incidentally, not all zinnia florets are the fuzzy yellow "starfish" pollen florets that you usually associate with zinnias. The florets of scabiosa flowered zinnias have petal colors, and yet they also contain nectar for butterflies and hummingbirds. They can "smell" it and go for it. This is an example of a zinnia that contains the "scabious" florets.

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I have enjoyed crossing scabiosa flowered zinnias with "regular" zinnias to get some interesting results. The "scabi" florets have one important advantage over the normal fuzzy yellow florets, in that the fuzzy yellow florets die and shrivel after a couple of days, while the scabious florets remain as a permanent part of the flower, enabling the flower to build an impressive center of them.

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My hope is to breed scabious zinnias with much larger florets. I have made some progress in that direction.

I don't know if I have a favorite color of zinnia, but I am going to be growing a lot more white zinnias next year. They look good in the evening, and they make nice crosses with other colors.

ZM
(not associated with any product or vendor mentioned)

Those are beautiful Zenman! I don't think I have anything pink in my closet but I love pink in my garden - very showy from a distance. We have a big yard and and I like to have patches of color that show up from the road. White can be a very showy color too.
The general rule is to avoid double zinnias if you want to attract butterflies but the red 'Scarlet Flame' zinnias that I planted this summer said double on the packet and the butterflies loved them. I plan to get more of those for next summer.

I like Zowie Yellow Flame but it's still kinda pricey most places and some only have 10 seeds per packet. That's a waste of a packet. lol I'm trying to find a reasonable source for those.

Christie,

"The general rule is to avoid double zinnias if you want to attract butterflies..."

I don't know who made that rule. I grow nothing but double zinnias and scabiosa flowered zinnias, and I have lots of butterflies on both. And hummingbirds, too.

"I'm trying to find a reasonable source for those."

I think that Zowie Yellow Flame is an F1 hybrid, which makes its seed inherently expensive, regardless of the packet size. Hazzards has Zowie Yellow Flame 100 seeds for $15.35 or 1000 seeds for $137.50. Even in those quantities, Zowies aren't cheap.

Did you click on that Whirligig link in my previous message? You can get them for much less than Zowies, and they can be really cheap if you buy them in quantity. A couple of years ago I bought a quarter pound of Whirligig seeds. I will plant the last of those next Spring.

ZM
(not associated with any product or vendor mentioned)

I like the whirligigs too but didn't want the mixed colors. Or maybe I'll just get both. : )
I'm hoping as more of the 2011 seeds are available, I'll find Zowie at a more reasonable price.

It's good to know the butterflies like your double and scabiosa flowered zinnias Zenman. I wouldn't have guessed the scabiosa zinnias would work just from looking at them, and now I'm wondering if they might actually be better since you mentioned the "scabious florets remain as a permanent part of the flower". I guess it's too late in the year for me to tell you to pull up a chair by your zinnias and see which ones are getting the most hits. lol

Looking on the web, I found mixed scabiosa zinnias. What about single colors? Are those available yet?

Still not a big fan of the huge rounded double zinnias. I think it's because they look top heavy to me. My instinct wants things to look balanced. In the two photos above, I like the top one better but my taste doesn't always fall in the average range. I came across your photo of a dark red echinacea flowered zinnia that I really really love. Those have the scabiosa type florets right? A big drift of those would be gorgeous!

Christie,

"I'm hoping as more of the 2011 seeds are available, I'll find Zowie at a more reasonable price."

Good luck with that. And somebody might discount some leftover 2010 seeds. However, you might find someone who has saved seeds from their Zowies who would engage in some kind of trade. A bed of F2 Zowies wouldn't have the uniformity of the F1 product, but there should be enough similarity between them to look like they "belonged together", particularly after you culled out a few weirdos.

Scabiosa flowered zinnias aren't available in separate colors, to my knowledge. I was completely unaware that the scabious zinnias had nectar in their florets until I saw the butterflies drinking from them. It must have been good, because two or more butterflies would fight over a scabious bloom. However, I don't know if the nectar remains available throughout the extended life of the scabi florets. Many of the scabi florets will set a seed at their base, just like the petals do. This is a recent scabious-derived "echinacea flowered" zinnia with a Zowie-like coloration.

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I have a fair number of recombinants, like that one, that combine the ancestry of cactus, Whirligig, and scabious zinnias. The cactus genes make these recombinants several times the size of their scabiosa flowered grandparents.

I understand your desire for "true" strains with uniform coloration, for a cohesive look in a big drift of zinnias. I also like that look. But I'm not that far along in my home breeding yet. I am still exploring what the possibilities are for new zinnias. And I am doing this mainly for fun and my own entertainment. I don't plan to give the commercial growers any competition. I still buy commercial zinnia seed, to broaden my gene pool.

There are separate colors available in several commercial zinnia lines, mainly those strains aimed at the cut flower industry. The Benary's that you mentioned, the Blue Points (which may be the same as Benary's), Cut-and-Come-Again types including Oklahoma, Giant Cactus flowered, Giant Dahlia Flowered types, and others. But no scabiosa flowered separates.

ZM