Zinnia - collecting seeds

9 years ago

I save some seeds last year and they did not germinate. I bought new seeds and WS. I really want to learn saving Zinnia seeds.

But I don't know when to do. I circle some flowers. Are they dry enough?

Any advise or photo to share?

Thanks!

Featured Answer

zen_man

9 years ago

last modified: 9 years ago

Hi Chipeony,

" I took out seeds from dry flower head last week and found out not only the petal had seeds, there were seeds everywhere. "

Yes, you are seeing "seeds everywhere" because the petals are not the only flower part that bears a seed -- the pollen florets (small five-armed fuzzy yellow "starfish") also set seeds, and since they contain both a stigma and an anther bundle (which contains pollen), they can set seeds in the absence of bees. The pollen seeds are always selfed, but the petal seeds receive pollen from a pollen floret, which could be in the same bloom or a bloom on another zinnia. So the petal seeds have the possibility of being hybridized, while the floret seeds do not.

" So, which was empty? "

If you plant you flower beds by just scattering seeds on the soil and raking them in, you dont need to separate the good seeds individually. If you go to the trouble to plant seeds in rows (I do) then you want to separate out the good seeds and plant them,The empty seeds do not contain a developed embryo, so they can't germinate, and there is no point in wasting your time planting them. But it also takes time to separate out the good seeds, so you might just want to plant the contents of the seed head in your rows and just let the good seeds come up and the remainder rot to improve the soil.

I choose to separate out and plant just the good seeds, partly because I am breeding my zinnias and frequently I select the best seeds to plant as an improvement step. Big seeds tend to produce bigger flowers. Longer seeds tend to produce longer petals.

With a little experience you will be able to spot the viable seeds visually, but until you get that experience you will need to detect the embryo-containing seeds by feel. If you pinch the seed gently, you can tell by feel in your finger tips that it contains something. If you gently try to bend a seed, it will resist being bent if it contains an embryo. Use a limited amount of bending force, because you can break an embryo, and that will most likely kill it.

Each seed, empty or viable, is accompanied by a chaffy scale, and they contribute "chaff" to the mix of viable seeds and unviable seeds. The chaffy scales look more like thin paper-like structures, and not a seed, so you probably won't confuse the chaffy scales with seeds.

I separate out my good seeds from a head by pulling the head apart over a sheet of white typing paper under a bright desk lamp (or near bright fluorescent lights). The Zinnia elegans that I grow have considerably bigger heavier seeds than the Zinnia marylandicas have. so my seed sorting task is easier than yours. That is one of the minor reasons I prefer Z. elegans for my breeding hobby. But the main reason I don't grow the Marylandicas (Profusions, Zaharas, Pinwheels) is that they can't cross successfully with the Zinnia elegans (violaceas). Another reason is that the plants and flowers of the Profusions, Pinwheels, and Zaharas are much smaller than the zinnias I grow. I prefer bigger flowers and bigger plants.

Comments (10)

duluthinbloomz4
9 years ago
Don't think those blooms are dry enough to produce mature seeds. Haven't collected zinnia seeds for ages, but when I did, I'd usually wait until the spent flower was fairly crispy and brown then harvest the whole spent bloom. Put them in an empty seed package and picked out the seeds in the spring.
purslanegarden
9 years ago

The seed head and petals should be really dry. The seed is at the end of the petals. I mention this because I knew a person who thought the seeds were what was left after she pulled out the petals. In other words, she was saving and planting a part of the flower that had no seeds at all.

Here are some examples, including a few photos that show after pulling out the petals to collect the seeds

https://www.google.com/search?q=dry+zinnia+flower&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=arMSVfKeD4aXNtHQgqAE&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=480&bih=468
chipeony thanked purslanegarden
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Betty, "I would like to know if the zinnia flower has to be totally brown before cutting it for seeds." Actually, no. You can save "green seeds" as long as they are "plump" with viable embryos inside. But, as Ken said, you need to dry them to store them. Sometimes I gather green seeds and plant them immediately to get a quick second generation of zinnias. (I breed zinnias as a hobby.) Because the outside of a green seed is still alive and impervious to water, you need to split the cover in some way to get quick germination. Otherwise it will take an extra week or two for the outside to die and become pervious to water. However, if you dry your green seeds to use next season or next year, you don't need to worry about splitting the cover, because the dried cover will be dead and pervious. "I was wondering if you could get seeds from cut flowers..." Yes, it is possible to find viable green seeds in the zinnias that are being used as cut flowers. You can pull the petals and inspect the seeds. With a little practice you can learn to see and feel which seeds have a baby zinnia embryo inside and which ones are "empty". Incidentally, you don't necessarily have to cut a zinnia bloom to take green seeds from it. You can leave the zinnia bloom on the plant and pluck individual petals as their seeds "fatten up", working from the bottom of the bloom, and as the seeds develop, work your way up the bloom. And with a little practice, you can spread the petals a bit and inspect the seeds while they are still attached, and pluck only those that you can see are "fat". There are actually two significant advantages to saving your seeds at the green stage instead of waiting for the seedhead to get completely brown and dry. In wet weather, a brown seedhead is prone to pre-germination of the seeds in the seedhead, but on the otherhand, the seeds are still protected from water at the green stage. And, if you have seed-eating birds around, they can develop a taste for your zinnia seeds, so you should harvest your green seeds before the birds do. ZM
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msmorningsong
9 years ago
Actually, Zen Man has shown you can collect them green and get great germination. Here are a couple of links:

http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussions/1383940/zinnia-seeds

http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussions/1382141/growing-green-zinnia-seeds

He hybridizes them, so has a lot of experience with it. :-)
chipeony thanked msmorningsong
zen_man
9 years ago
MorningSong (that's a pretty name), thanks for your confidence in me. Actually, I saw this thread and hesitated to chime in, because the zinnias in the picture are Profusions. Profusions, like the Zaharas and Pinwheels, are members of the new zinnia species, Zinnia marylandica. I don't grow the Marylandicas for several reasons, so I have no direct experience with them.

So I don't know how well the Green Seed Technique translates to the Profusions, Zaharas, and Pinwheels. It works great for the larger Zinnia elegans (now sometimes referred to as Zinnia violacea, after the original wildflower).

One possible problem with the Profusion seeds might have been poor pollination. If a bunch of bees didn't show up to pollinate the Profusions, then very few, if any, of the seeds would have been "fertilized" to produce viable embryos in the seeds. Chipeony, do you remember if a lot of bees visited your Profusion zinnias last year?

ZM
chipeony thanked zen_man
docmom_gw
9 years ago
I have grown those zinnias for the last three years and saved seeds from them. I have collected both green and dried seeds, but then let them all dry. I did find lots of unfertilized, or empty seeds. I still have lots of seeds, if you'd like me to send some.

Martha
msmorningsong
9 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
DocMom, if you have some like Chiponey has posted, and you could spare; I'd love to trade you for some of those seeds. I have lots of butterfly type annual and perennial seeds, plus Liliput zinnia, ruby red coneflower, etc. Email if you'd like to do some trading, I'll send a list :-)
chipeony
Original Author
9 years ago
I did try to dry the petal and seed head last fall.

I opened the seed head and saw some seeds at the tip of petal. some seeds was at the center of seed head with white fiber, can they grow or not? I just wonder one flower can produce how many seeds?

Thanks.
chipeony
Original Author
9 years ago
Thanks for all information. Thanks docmom for seeds offering too. Actually, I was so excited I still got comments. :):)

I got seeds from Thompson Morgan last year and they grew very well. I saw a lot of bees touching them. I followed all advise and dried the flower head. I took out seeds from dry flower head last week and found out not only the petal had seeds, there were seeds everywhere. So, which was empty?

Thanks.
msmorningsong
9 years ago
I've never grown zinnia before this year Chiponey. Perhaps the more knowledgeable will return and answer those two questions ;[)

Zinnia - collecting seeds

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