Angelonia is a hybrid annual and any seed saved from it won't come true to form. In other words it won't be the same glorious plant as those you buy. It is not a very well known plant, because it is a relitively new plant and it is grown where you have long summers like yours. It is more likely to be found in seed catalogues from your area or ones that deal with seeds that can be grown in warmer climates.

Salvia Victoria blue is a tender perennial and should winter over in your area. If you find you have had winter die off then mulch the roots well in winter and wait for them to show in the spring before you dig there.
I hope this helps

Thanks,oilpainter. I guess I'm just wondering why, in the case of the victorias, they are no longer sold in the little six packs here - for years they were sold that way in abundance and it seems like everyone had them. Now, it's a different story - just large plants and not that many being offered. Maybe there was some growing issue with them with the commercial nursery people (?) and they were hard to get. Maybe they're hard to seed start, so not that many available? I'd still love to try both from seed fom my existing plants. Would cuttings be a better way to increase these plants, but how would I keep them growing through the winter?

Bet your eyes are beginning to glaze over at this point, lol! - but once I get a hankering to do something, well, you know...

Pat

Pat, as far as the salvia, you could always just let the blooms go to seed, and then shake the stalks/stems over the garden. I saved seed a couple of times, because I also LOVE Victoria Blue, but then I got lazy and just shake the seeds over the bed now. I do that with several things - foxgloves, columbines, etc. I don't do well with seed-saving.

Victoria has overwintered here in zone 6 CT for me on several ocassions, so I would think it should overwinter for you too.

Good luck!
:)
Dee

Pat, the angelonia 'Serena' is a fairly new variety that is seed started. Since it was introduced a couple of years ago, I am finding that it is almost the only one available now in my area. This is because the growers like seed started plants. They are quicker to market than cutting started plants. I have not tried it from seed, but it should come true.

Salvia farinaceas (Victoria, Rhea, etc.) are my very favorite filler plants and I plant 5 to 8 dozen of them every year. I have tried different things over the years. I used to buy them in the six packs as early in the spring as I could find them. I would bring them home and cut each one back by half and then stick those cuttings into six packs. They would root and catch up with the others by planting out time. That is still my favorite way, but I can no longer find them in six packs. The six packs seem to have disappeared in recent years. I guess the growers are going for bigger pots, which mean bigger profits.

I have also taken cuttings from my plants in the fall (September), rooted them and carried them over the winter in pots under lights. They are very easy to root, but last year my plants had a good bit of powdery mildew by fall and all my cuttings died. If you try this, take good healthy cuttings and be sure to dip all your cuttings in a pesticide before you bring them in for the winter, or you'll never get rid of all the aphids, white flies, etc.

This past year, I ordered seed from Hazzards Seed. They are a great company and you can get super good prices if you need a good bit of seed (or use the excess for trades). They also have a better selection than any other seed company I have ever seen. Although they sell to wholesalers, they have no minimum order, so anyone can order from them.

Anyway, I started my plants from seed this year, but didn't start them early enough. This year I will start them about ten weeks before my frost date so that I can get them outside a couple of weeks before last frost. They are pretty hardy, will take light frosts and grow alot faster if they can get outdoors.

As to wintering over, salvia farinaceas are very touch and go for me (and when I lived in New Orleans). You have a better chance of them returning if you do not cut them back until they resume growth in the spring. Obviously, you should use plenty of mulch. But, a wet winter is not to their liking, which is what I have. I probably have about one in ten return each year. Not nearly enough for my needs. But then, you can take early spring cuttings from the ones that do return and increase your stock very easily that way.

If you try the seed route, I heartily recommend the variety called Rhea. It gets a bit taller than Victoria for me, the flowers are a more vivid blue (they have white throats that makes the blue pop), and the blooms are larger and come more frequently. I have loved Victoria for years, but Rhea has surpassed it in my affections.

Here is a link that might be useful: Hazzards Retail Seeds

Donna, thanks for that info on Rhea. I may give this a try. I love, love, love Victoria, and while it's perfect for bedding, I do like to cut it for bouquets, so the taller Rhea may work a bit better. I did see on the link you provided, though, that it called it a dwarf form of Victoria???

I'm surprised you had trouble overwintering Victoria in New Orleans! I thought that since it overwinters for me here in CT, (not consistently, but fairly often) that it would overwinter in warmer zones. Hmm, I guess that's a good enough reason to buy the big packets of seed from Hazzards - you can never have too much Victoria!

:)
Dee

I had not noticed the notation on Rhea! All I can speak to is my personal experience....but if yours differs, by all means let me know! I think you will love Rhea. And, by the way, these seeds were very easy to grow. A big plus.

As far as overwintering, I feel fairly confident that the problem is our wet winters in this part of the country rather than cold. We tend to get lots and lots of rain through the winter and then suffer drought through the summer.

The trend for victoria salvia being sold in pots seemed to start when a lot of the more perennial varieties like May Night became popular. I used to grow it in flats, but almost a decade went by when nobody was interested in buying it. It's coming back into popularity now.

I do not like to see the trend of annuals going to pots, when they used to be available as flats. I cringe when I see someone paying premium prices for something like a hot pepper for their garden, paying almost as much as they used to be able to buy a whole flat for. Very often the same variety too. One thing the retailer likes about dealing with potted stock, is that it has a longer bench life. Used to be that potted annuals were those one had to start from cuttings and pay a royalty on. Not anymore. The retailers will continue to do this as long as the public puts up with it.

I used to grow angelonia from cuttings, and this is one seed version I think superior to the cutting version. I stopped carrying the cutting grown plants as soon as I tried the Serena series the first time. Definately a winner.

callipe, I have had nursery owners tell me "they don't grow them in flats anymore". So, are they passing the buck? The effect it has had on me is that in the last two years I have started growing almost all my annuals from seed. Compared to what I used to spend on plants in flats, I am really only saving a little, but this means that the nurseries are getting ALOT less business from me now. It's hard for me to see how that's helping anybody.

I sell victoria salvia by the flat and only by the flat. Angelonia is more expensive to produce and needs a little more room to spread before it blooms, so I'll say it with a little disclaimer. I also sell it by the flat, but there are only a dozen and a half to the flat and they aren't priced as low as something like a Victoria salvia. I also sell them by the each. No, I'm not advertising. I don't sell to the public, anyway.

I have started Angelonia from seed that was saved from the plant - quite succesfully. Last year was the first year that I saved seed from both white and purple plants. I get a lot of white, purple and some pink. I had no pink plants that I havested seed from so apparently they do not always come true to color but the white ones I harvested did produce white seedlings.

You need to let the seed mature on the plant and you'll find the best ones toward the bottom of the flower stalk. I waited until end of Sept/Oct to harvest and just placed them in an envelope for the winter. I started them around the beginning of March - 10 weeks before frost.

I have also harvested blue victoria seeds and they are super easy to harvest hundreds of seed that are in flower stalks. I usually just cut off the stalks and store in envelopes for the winter and then use a little strainer and put the dried flower stalks in and sift out the seeds. I start those about 12 weeks before frost

Definely try the Angelonia seeds - I'm going to try to harvest even more this year because they are great plants.

I feel your pain, I too love Angelonia and blue salvia!! Here in Oklahoma they quit selling Victoria blue in six packs, but you can still get them in Flats. this year, however, I expanded my bed which was quite a lot of work time and money !! So I was too late for the Victoria blue however, I found Sally Fun salvia for a good price at Walmart. It looks very similar athough I can't even put my finger on it, but there's something slightly different ...

I hope it comes back as easily .... The problem I have with doing Angelonia from seed- I want The mauvy pink and blue not so much the white ... it's getting ridiculously expensive so this year I only got about 4 or 5.

I got a couple small plants on sale via mail order late last summer. I potted them up and grew them in my sunniest window all winter. They did very well and are now flourishing in the ground. I'm going to do everything I can to propagate and pot them up to save them again for next year.

I work part time for a small nursery here. We still sell Victoria Blue and Rhea in 6 pks. We sell the Serena Angelonia in 4 inch pots. I love them both. They tolerate the heat here in Kansas very well.