This fall, I am adding Tete-a-tete, Rijnveld's Early Sensation, Jetfire & Little Gem so I can get early blooms.

Here's what I already have in somewhat order of blooming. This is all from my memory, because eventhough I have every intention of recording the blooming time, once the spring planting gets underway, every good intention goes out the window:
-Fragrant Breeze
-King Alfred
-Ice Follies
-Trevithian
-Segovia
-Accent
-Tullibeg
-Fragrant Rose
-Geranium
-Sir Winston Churchill
-Tripartite

I found that Tripartite was always hidden behind other Narcisus leaves because it blooms so much later than others.

Trevithian, Geranium & Sir Winston Churchill & Tripartite bloomed at the same time as Phlox subulata.

I actually start the season with snowdrops followed by Eranthis hyemalis. The following minor bulbs bloom along side or under the Daffs: Dwarf Iris, crocus, Scilla sibirica, Chionodoxa, Puschkinia, Muscari, Anemone blanda and a few tulips + Leucojum aestivum.

I have all these bulbs interspersed with Narcissi and perennials throughout the garden. By mid to late spring, Bleeding Heart, Forget-me-nots, Johnny-jumpt-ups & Phlox subulata will pick up the blooming season as well as some late blooming species tulips. Also, Alliums and Columbine are wonderful bridge between spring bulbs and perennials. By this time, my Caryopteris 'Worcester Gold' would leaf out and become a good backdrop for Alliums. I find Alliums 'Globemaster' and cristophii most satifying in giving interest long into summer. And don't forget Convallaria majalis. Can't have spring without it. :-)

And don't forget summer bulbs: LILIES!
And fall crocus & colchicum

You'll never have enough bulbs. Check out Rob Procter's 'Naturalizing Bulbs'. He's the reason for my many thousands of bulbs stuffed in a tiny city garden. I still want more, but absolutely have no room for more. (Liar - see the first sentence of this post? :-P)

Have fun. Order from Van Engelen (not Lilies). Your pocket book will sort of forgive you. :-)

:-D

Hi, Adam. Pitimpinai gave great suggestions. (I, too, have a tiny urban lot that is stuffed, stuffed, stuffed with small spring bulbs. I will hunt down the Rob Proctor book--thanks, Pitimpinai, for the reference.)

A few other bulbs you might consider:

~Bulbocodium vernum. This is my favorite spring bulb. It blooms a luminous violet color and the foliage is unobtrusive. It's a little hard to find, and sometimes pricey, and not your typical looking spring bulb, so make sure you see a picture of it before you bankrupt yourself. I can rhapsodize more about it, plus suggest sources, if you want to email me from "my page."

~Any Scilla (okay, not peruviana). S. siberica 'Spring Beauty' is the one most commonly seen around here, but there are a number of others, all wonderful.

~As far as Narcissus go, my favorites are 'Itzim,' which is the earliest to bloom for me; 'Segovia,' late mid-season; 'Hawera,' very late. Many of the cyclamineus hybrids tend to be on the shorter side, and smaller jonquilla hybrids like 'sun disk' (or even plain old N. jonquilla) tend to have thin, grass-like foliage that doesn't make a huge mess for months as it ripens. I also really like 'Pipit' and 'Thalia.'

~There are a lot of different kinds of Muscari. Have a look around on line for pictures--they go from classic to funky. All but M. muscarimi are easy in MA.

~Erythronium 'Pagoda' is lovely in partial shade.

~Allium moly should bloom in May. I've never grown it, actually, but that's what everybody says. (This year I am going to remember to get some!)

~Fritillarias are fantastic....and European lily-leaf beetle magnets. If you don't have the lily beetle, try some Fritillarias. Make sure you get fresh, um, tubers?, not dried-up, shriveled ones.

~Consider my favorite perennials, the hellebores--as long as you don't garden w/ young people who might eat these plants. H. foetidus is the easiest and takes sun. H. xhybridus (used to be 'Orientalis hybrids' and is often still sold under that name) is also easy.

~Hepatica

~and Pulmonaria

~and Arum italicum, which has another name now, I think, and gorgeous foliage.

I grow a lot of rock garden/ more-or-less alpine plants, many of which bloom in spring; if you're interested in that 'look' send me an email and I'll tell you what I have.

Amanda (fairly new to Bulbs forum; used to seeing Adam on New England Gardening)

Hi pitimpinai...

Wow, that is a lot of bulbs! It sounds wonderful. I have a suburban lot and hardly have any bulbs. I have a few Narcissus, crocus and scilla. I would have added lots more ages ago, except that I just hate the dying foliage and haven't figured out a way to grow them so that I don't have to look at it. I have tried using daylilies to disguise, but don't have that many daylilies and only a few hostas which are the other suggestion I get. I would love thousands of bulbs every spring! How do you disguise the dying foliage?

I was on Brent and Becky's site last night looking at their photos. Someone told me they are the old Daffodil Mart company? I have Jetfire and love it. So Van Engelen is good quality at a good price? The more you save, the more you can buy, right? LOL

I will go back and look up some of those early bloomers. I have Jetfire and love it. I am always looking for fragrant ones. I saw Segovia and Geranium last night, will look up the rest.

I have started going native in the back and created a number of shade beds, with ferns, epimedium, dicentra, a few hostas, a couple of tiarellas and phlox divartaca that I want to really increase next year. Morning sun, shady from 11:30am on. Some narcissus I added there long ago, petered out. I keep getting the foliage but they don't bloom. I think they were King Alfred. Are there some narcissus that do better in shade than others? I also want to add to the front in sunnier locations too.

I have phlox subulata, so thanks for noting the ones that bloom with that.

I like the looks of Anemone blanda, scilla, snowdrops and not really familiar with the rest. I wonder if any of these bulbs can become invasive and need to be placed carefully. Also do you use any of these in large drifts under trees?

On the Allium 'Globemaster', is that the huge one? How do you use that? What is it planted with?

Hi again Amanda.. :-) We seem to be visiting the same forums..lol.

Will look into that bulbocodium..sounds pretty. Love Scillas, and have the spring beauty and may add a white. I saw the 'Itzim' on B&B's site last night. liked that too. I like Thalia too.

Will have to look up erythronium, not familiar with it.

I want to add some Fritillarias..I read they have a skunk smell to them?? Love the look of them. Where do you grow them, with what? Do you mean they are magnets for the red lily beetle? I am getting that beetle and hoping to keep it under control.

I have just added hellebores. No children here, and a fenced in yard. Yes, I added pulmonaria and want to add more, and want to add brunnera Jack Frost.
I wish I could rock garden, but tried it and didn't have much luck. I have a completely level yard too, which doesn't help.

Thanks to you both for all the suggestions..
:-)
Adam

I don't grow Allium 'Globe Master,' but I love A. christophii. I grow it with A. nigrum (syn. A. multibubosum), which blooms at the same time. I use them as a middle-of-the-border plant; I planted a bunch among some peonies and that works well.

The earliest Allium to bloom here is 'Purple Sensation.' It blooms at the same time as Iris siberica Caesar's Brother (most years, anyway), and I grow these two plants together. I like the contrast of forms, and the red-violet of the allium with the blue-violet of the iris. Also, the iris hides the allium's dying foliage and gives it some support. In my opinion, all alliums look better in clumps or drifts--single specimens make me think somebody planted a lollipop. :)

Fritillaria imperialis, crown imperial, is the one with the skunky smell. It's actually a great way to keep rodents out of your garden, as they are repelled by the smell. My favorite, though, is F. meleagris. I have a clump of them planted with Narcissus 'Jenny' and Viola labradorica. All bloom at the same time. I also grow them with plum-colored Helleborus xhybridus. Nice combo, as the flowers of the hellebores pick up on the colors of the fritillaria blooms. BUT! Yes, they are a magnet for the lily beetle. If you have lily beetle, and you plant frits, you will either have to hand-pick assiduously or spray with something. This year I sprayed with neem oil, and that worked. It is not supposed to be toxic or harmful to the environment. (I don't use pesticides, other than insecticidal soap, so I felt a little uneasy about the neem oil.)

All of the so-called minor bulbs look wonderful in drifts under trees. You can have carpets of color if you plant enough bulbs and give them a little time to naturalize. As far as I know, only some of the ornithogalums are exuberant-to-invasive. I wouldn't plant O. umbellatum if I were you, and be careful about O. nutans. Crocus tommasinianus is rumored to be weedy in some gardens, but I've never experienced that with it.

I love fragrant daffs, too. The jonquilla hybrids are great for that. I especially like the scent of 'Quail' and 'Pipit.' Tazettas, like 'Geranium,' are also very fragrant, and the poeticus hybrid 'Actaea' has a wonderful smell. "Festival" or "Roman" hyacinths are also good for fragrance, although their foliage gets a bit messy.

As for that dying bulb foliage... I am eagerly awaiting the suggestions of other gardeners! The best solution I've found is to grow dwarf bulbs with narrow foliage, and place them among ground covers that bloom as the bulb foliage dies--for a little distraction and added height. I've also been happy with the results of planting small bulbs behind clumps of Allium senescens var. glaucum, which grows just tall enough to hide the foliage of small--but only only small--bulbs. Bulbs with the best--i.e., quickest and neatest to die down--foliage for me: Crocus chrysanthus, sieberi, imperati and ancyrensis; Bulbocodium; dwarf jonquilla daffs; Galanthus nivalis; Anemone blanda; Fritillaria meliagris--or maybe that just gets eaten up by lily beetles! Crocus vernus is the WORST (after Colchicum). It grows luxuriant, foot-long leaves that flop all over everything and last into July some years. I love it, anyway, of course, but other crocus are much neater. The foliage of dwarf iris gets very tall, but at least it stays narrow and doesn't flop. And the flowers of dwarf iris are worth any amount of foliage.

Alrighty, I've rambled enough for now. I REALLY like small spring bulbs--can you tell?

Amanda

I have no alliums at the present. I tried them once and didn't enjoy the onion aroma. But I do enjoy the look of the Purple sensation and drumstick and thought I might give it another try. I have some Iris siberica Caesar's Brother that I could try with the PS allium.

The crown imperial fritillaria is the one I like the best. I haven't had a rodent problem, but the area I wanted to put them in is away from the house and along our back border where they would get in if there were trying to anyway. I have viola labradorica and I like Narcissus 'Jenny'. So I will have to take a look at the meleagris and see if I like it. Not such a great thing to have to figure on lily beetles though. I am also organic and not sure what the neem oil is. Thanks for the ideas.

So what would be a good minor bulb for under a maple? What about snowdrops? I have seen a blue carpet under trees in our area in the spring, but I never have gotten close enough to see what it was. Any ideas? I will definitely have to stay away from the ornithogalums, I just can't take aggressive invasive plants. I want spread and increase, but not run away, hard to keep up with and difficult to remove.

Thanks for the fragrant daff ideas. I have seen a few of those and liked them. I love the fragrance of hyacinths and have a couple. I haven't invested more in them because I have heard they peter out and don't keep coming back here.

Yes, to the narrow foliage idea. I enjoy crocus for that reason. so the jonquilla daffs are the easiest to allow the foliage to finish in the daff department.

Thanks Amanda...where do you buy your bulbs and when do you order?

Adam

Adam,
You are hooked. :-D
I think I have seen you in the Winter Sowing & Name That Plant forums.

This is a wonderful discussion on spring bulbs and great suggestions from Amanda. Thank you.

I love fragrant flowers and plants and try to add them to my garden over the years. I would love those perennials suggested, but I have very little shade for them. I have a few clumps of Helleborus. That will give you a very long blooming time too. I have been eyeing F. meleagris for years and finally put in an order for them this year. All these new minor & miniatures bulbs will have to go in the lawn. That's why minor & miniatures since the foliage will dry faster.

I really don't have these bulbs in drift since the majority of them were stuffed into any bare spot I could find between perennials. I do try to plant several of the same in the vicinity so they don't look spotty in bloom.

When I dig a hole, I put the largest bulb in the bottom, fill in with a bit of soil, add a medium bulb, add a little more soil, add a minor bulb, top off with more soil. I normally add bone meal as I go also. 3 bulbs in one shot. :-) Invest in a large bulb planter that looks like a drill bit on steroids. You'll plant a lot of bulbs in no time. Since you still have a lot of bare spots, it is safe to drill without destroying your existing bulbs.

Amanda's suggestion on narcissus with thin foliage is great. My Trevithian is a rather late bloomer. The foilage is completely dry now, whereas others are still not quite there yet. Colchicum foliage truly is sooooo slow to dry. I planted mine right in front of the border so when the flowers pop up in fall, I won't miss them. It is worth watching the painful death of the foliage, though.

I actually don't disguise the bulb foliage. Distraction is the key as Amanda said. My garden is so STUFFED with everything that something is always in bloom, drawing attention away from the dying bulb foliage.

Your native shade garden sounds lovely. You can plant Aquilegea, Dicentra and a lot others with a lot of bulbs there. I planted Fragrant Breeze on the north side of my house among Hosta. There was not enough light there, the narcissus flopped terribly. I moved most of them to a sunnier spot this spring.

I have some King Alfred under the maple tree on the parkway. They get some late morning sun. They seem to do fine. The front of my house is getting shadier as the trees grow. I won't know how well the bulbs fare for a few more years yet, I hope.

This fall, add some organic bulb food to your very old narcissus. They might rebloom.

I have been a B&B customer for years. Their prices used to be comparable to VE, but these past two years, they have gone up substantially. Now I order a lot more from VE and only go to B&B for something that I cannot find from VE. Yup, the more you save, the more you can buy. LOL. Check out the reviews on Gardenwatchdog before you order anything.

The blue carpet might be Scilla sibirica. One of my favorite since the intense blue is very pretty with yellow narcissi. Do not order any narcissi with stuffed cup. The flower head is too heavy to stay erect. Don't be fooled with pink daff in catalogs. Daffs are never pink.

Yes, Allium 'Gobemaster' is the most expensive one but blooms the longest due to the secondary florets. I planted 5 - 7 of these together to avoid the lollipop look. :-P Cristophii/albopilosum is shorter. I leave the seedheads all summer to get more bang for the bucks. They are very pretty among perennials. I planted 'Globemaster' in the middle of the borders, cristophii along the front and weaving in and out of the border.. They look especially pretty with something yellow, pink, glauca & blue. I have some with Caryopteris 'Worcester Gold', Alchemilla mollis, Allium moly, Geranium 'Johnson's Blue' and lambs' ear. Very pretty. At another spot, I have cristophii with Rose Tiffany. Gorgeous.

At the Chicago Millennium Park in the garden designed by Piet Oudolf, cristophii were planted at the rim of the border and among low ornamental grass with pinkish/purplish blooms. It is stunning.

Hi Pitimpinai...
Yes, I have been hooked for some time...but when I come to Garden Web, I can see that I am not alone. LOL Yes, Winter Sowing was a lot of fun last winter, my first try at it. Hope to do it again.

I started trying to add as much fragrance to the garden as possible when I realized how much my family enjoyed it. So no matter which plant I am adding, I always like to check if there is a fragrant variety.

We mow our lawn pretty late in the spring and could use some bulbs there. I guess that is another post, though, figuring out which are the best in the lawn. I don't have any drifts, just a few here and there too.

You read my mind...I was going to ask next, what is the best way to plant and how do you keep track of what you have where? I want to be able to move perennials around without killing the bulbs.

Yes, I was hoping to get an attachment for the drill to dig for bulb placement. Where do you get one, and do you know what they are called? Thanks for the tip about fertilizing my old bulbs. Just so long as I can figure out where they are now..lol. I also use gardenwatchdog. I haven't hit the VE site, but I will get there soon.

Yes, I have seen alliums in an exhibit at a flower show, with alchemilla and some pinks. It was gorgeous. The Chicago exhibit sounds gorgeous too.

BTW, I just got a hosta named Guacamole...supposed to be fragrant. Haven't gotten a bloom yet, so can't confirm it.

Thanks Pitimpinai..
Adam

Hi Adam,

Check out the link on planting bulbs in the lawn. There are some very nice suggestions there.

I don't keep track of what and where I plant. I started with a pretty good plan for specific plant and location, then filled the empty space with bulbs, then scattered seeds (annuals, biennials & perennials) all over for good measure.
:-)

Every spring and fall I walk around bulbs or plants and a trowel in hands looking for a bare spot. :-D That's why there is no spot in the garden where I can walk without stepping on something. Crazy as a loon is what I am. I still want more.

The bulb planter/drill bit is called plant/bulb auger. I saw them at Menards this spring. Might be able to find them at Home Depot or Lowes this fall. If not, the Gardener's Supply Company carries them. Too bad you have to get the set. Might be cheaper at the box stores and you don't have to get the whole set there.

A friend planted Allium 'Golbemaster' at the corner of a border at the end of her driveway. She has low growing perennials behind them. It is really pretty because the alliums stood out prominently.

Guacamole' fragrance sounds lovely. I have seen it, but it was not in bloom. It will look very pretty as backdrop or surrounding a clump of Globemaster & cristophii. I have Hosta plantaginea - August Lily. It is very fragrant.

Enjoy looking up bulbs. I ordered mine in June :-P trying to beat the dateline for the 10% discount at B&B. They charge something more this year, I forgot what. The 10% used to be even with shipping & handling. Not anymore. Only got Colchicum & cristophii from them. The rest was ordered from VE to which I add more bulbs every few weeks. :-)

Here is a link that might be useful: Bulbs in grass

A lot of good suggestions.
I'd like to chime in and add a few not mentioned before.
Fritillaria uva-vulpis is probably the most easiest to grow of all fritillarias. As a big plus foliage disappear very fast. Very inexpensive and sometimes available in HD. Blooms in April when not all trees fully leaf out, so could be planted in spring's part-sun/ summer's shade. Should be planted in clumps of 12-15 to have an impact:
{{gwi:11366}}

Transitional late spring/early summer bulb, hyacinthodes hispanica (spanish bluebells). Blooms from late May till mid-June, when most of spring bulbs already gone. Foliage is clean/attractive before and after bloom, but persist till mid-July. I cut/mow it in late June with no ill effect. Good naturalizer. Doing equally good in part-shade or part-sun.
{{gwi:22123}}

Early summer bulb, brodiaea corrina. Blooms from late June till early July. Flowers opens deep, almost navy blue and gradually fading to light blue. Since they don't opens all at the same time you have a variety of blue shades. Need full sun, otherwise may be floppy. Foliage is OK (not terribly ugly, LOL). Excellent if planted among/between low growing shrubs or late rising perennials (platycodon for example). This particular pictures don't do a justice to it, just to have an idea:
{{gwi:22126}}
{{gwi:22130}}

Adam, that 'thingie' to plant bulbs with a drill called 'auger' and it's available in HD in a fall.
They coming as painted red, painted yellow and unpainted.
All three are similar, but slightly different from each other in construction. I'd recommend red if you'll have a choice, but any will do a job.

Hi again pitimpinai,

Thanks for the link to the bulbs in the lawn thread. I haven't looked it over yet, but will before I make an order.

So, if you don't keep track of where you plant your bulbs, how do you move your perennials without damaging bulbs?

Glad to know I can get that auger at Lowes/Home Depot, I will look for it next time I go. That must make it MUCH easier.

I will let you know when/if the Guacamole blooms how the fragrance is. Is the Hosta plantaginea a solid color, or variegated? Yes, it would make a nice combo with the globemaster.

Guess I am late thinking of ordering bulbs..lol. I will have to remember that for next year. I went to the Van Engelen site and noticed that they only sell in 100 lots or higher. At least on the couple of things I looked up. I will have to choose fewer varieties and have more of them. I guess I am going to need that auger..lol. Prices are good though.

Thanks,
Adam

Hi EGO45,

Nice photos, so strange to see bulbs in bloom now..nice to have photos on hand. I love to see photos. I am going to have to figure out how to do that.

That is a nice looking fritallaria. So cute. The spanish bluebells are very pretty and such a pretty blue! I have a lot of part shade that could use some. That brodiaea reminds me of a colchicum only blue. I didn't realize there were summer bulbs like that.

That third photo of your hard is lovely. Nice statue and I see a lot of bird feeders? in the background. What is that growing up the trunk of your tree?

thanks very much for the photos and the suggestions..
Adam

"What is that growing up the trunk of your tree? "

Two clematises, non-twining 'Blue Boy' (group 3) and 'Languinosa Candida' (group 2).
Since 'Blue Boy' grow straight up and then falling if had no support it was a challenge (for me) to utilize it.
Now LC that twines around tree also twines around BB and holding it up.
It's only first year at this location, but already reached 6' and bloomed little bid:
{{gwi:22135}}

If you look at the bottom of Van Engelen's home page, there is a link to their sister site, John Scheepers, Inc. where you can buy in smaller quantity of one cultivar for not a huge difference in price per.

My opinion is that 50 or a hundred of a single cultivar makes a bigger show than a mix or 10 of each of 5-10 but that's just the way I like to plant.

Nell

Adam,

It's not exactly late to order bulbs; your only risk is that a few things will be sold out...so you'll have to try something else instead :) Most companies ship to our zone/part of the US in mid October, so you still have a while to get your order in, WITH ONE EXCEPTION, which I'll get to in a minute.

You asked where I buy bulbs. When at all possible, I like to buy my bulbs locally. I like to be able to sort through the bulbs and select the ones I think look healthiest. The two best bulb sellers I've found in Eastern MA are Russell's and Wilson Farm. Russell's always has a large, interesting selection and most of their bulbs are high quality. I avoid buying the ones in little plastic packets from them; I've had much better results from the loose bulbs they sell. Wilson Farm's selection seems to vary. Some years they're fine but nothing special, and some years they have extraordinary things at really great prices.

The disadvantages of buying locally: you don't know what you're gonna find until you get there, and, if your bulbs turn out to not to be true to the name on the package, there usually isn't too much you can do about it because so many months have passed since you bought them. That second one is why I do not buy bulbs from Mahoney's. They import their bulbs from a particularly unreliable grower and the outside of the package often doesn't match the inside.

It seems nurseries are stocking their bulbs earlier every year. I usually start looking around for bulbs in late August, but only because I like to start forcing a few bulbs by the first week in September. Standard planting time around here is October, but you can start earlier and go later.

I order from John Scheepers, which, as Nell noted, is the sister company to Van E. I like their prices (not quite as good as Van E., which gives volume discounts, but still very reasonable), and I like their guarantee/customer service. They usually send good--and occasionally great--quality bulbs. But when the bulbs have not looked healthy, or when they've been untrue to name, the company has been very good about refunding/replacing. To me, a good company becomes great when they handle mistakes honestly and efficiently.

Which brings me to my other favorite mail order bulb company, McClure and Zimmerman. They have a mixed Garden Watchdog rating, I believe, and I certainly wouldn't order from some of the other companies they're associated with. But I've had nothing but good to great experiences with them--better, in fact, than with Scheeper's in terms of quality and customer service. They are pricier than Scheeper's but they also have some more unusual things.

This year, I placed an order with Odyssey bulbs. I've been wanting to try them for a while, because they have the most unusual things of all. (I buy the usuals locally, and only use mail order for things I know I won't find around here.) I haven't received my bulbs yet, but everything has gone wonderfully so far and I've heard nothing but great things about this company.

White Flower Farm has very high quality bulbs, and sometimes they are reasonably priced. They have the best customer service of all. I always look through their catalogue, and, if they have something priced comparably to the other companies or local nurseries I use, I buy from them.

So, on to something very important. Since you are hooked, you should really try some autumn-flowering crocus. Seriously, they are the best thing that could happen in October (besides Colchicum, but these have unwieldy foliage so it's best to start an addiction to fall bulbs with crocus). YOU SHOULD ORDER THESE BY 8/1. The most satisfying one for New England is C. speciousus, the straight species or any of the cultivars. I'd recommend that one over most of the others, which either don't bloom as freely or need a much hotter, dryer summer climate than Massachusetts provides. Buy 25 or so, and stick them in the front of a border or along a path, in as much sun as you can give them. Crocus are as delightful in fall as they are in spring--maybe more so. If you're growing bulbs, your garden should not be without these guys.

Amanda

Hi George,

Very pretty garden. Thank you for the photos. I have Brodiaea/Triteleia iaxa 'Queen Fabiola'. It is very pretty, but by the time it blooms, my garden is full of blue Larkspur, so I have not added it to my garden. I also planted spanish bluebells, but got crowded out and have not added any either. Plants, especially bulbs in my garden have to fight for their life for the space. The toughest ones get to stay unless I really like them, then I'll replace them.

Hi Adam,
Are you out of breath yet reading all these suggestions? :-)
Amanda is right. It is not really too late to order. I keep on adding a few things to mine every couple weeks. I have not ordered from other places that Amanda suggested. Last year I even ordered the late season sale from VE. It was not fun planting the cold November wind, though.

When I dig out perennials, usually I get minor bulbs with the clumps. I have not had problem with major ones since I planted them deep.

I have Hosta plantaginea that looks like the 2nd, 3rd and 4th photo on the link below. Very pretty even without bloom. This year they have grown very big.

I second Nell on planing 50 - 100 of bulbs to get prettier effect. A few here and there do not appeal to me, except traffic stoppers like red tulips. I might have a few of them scattered about among others for some oomph. I ordered some orange/yellow lily flowering tulips to go with a patch of Alliums this year. They should last a few years if I don't over water them.

Crocus spaciosus is especially long lived for me too. They always lift my heart when I see them among fallen leaves in the slant autumn sun. I should order some more this year. :-D

Here is a link that might be useful: Hosta plantaginea

Hi Amanda,

Wow, thanks for sending so much GREAT information. I am pleasantly surprised that I can find pretty good bulbs at Russell's and Wilson Farms, as I usually shop at Russell's when I am looking for something and Wilson Farms sometimes. Not surprised about Mahoney's. I avoid them more and more.

I hadn't noticed the Scheepers link on Van Engelen, but will go back and find it and see what they have. Haven't decided yet what to get. I want too many varieties and don't want to spend that much this year because I spent quite a bit in the spring on new shrubs and trees.

I am glad to know White Flower Farm can be depended on. I find their prices high but the catalog is often very enticing.

Well, I think you are right, with a recommendation like that, I will HAVE to get some autumn crocus.

Sounds like you have been doing this for a long time..lol. Your garden must be something to see in the spring! Even with a white house! [g] Thanks very much for all your help with this and the house shutter question too. Very helpful input.

:-)
Adam

Hi Pitimpinai,

No, not out of breath yet..lol. It is timely input since I need to order bulbs this week for sure. I probably will order now and order later too. The late season sale sounds good. We have done our share of planting in November..brrrr!

I looked over those photos of the Hosta plantaginea..you had one labeled 'Aphrodite', is that fragrant too? I liked that one a lot.

I don't like a few bulbs here and there either, but I thought I might like 50-100 of different varieties together. I have started realizing just the last year, that I may have leanings toward plant collecting. I always want everything and don't have the room for everything. It's funny, I never used to see myself that way. [g]

Thanks for the input and the link.

Adam

Okay, so I am looking at online catalogs and trying to decide what to get. I am all set for crocus and other small bulbs, but I am stuck on picking out narcissus/daffodils. Some of them are expensive and of course some that I really like are the most expensive. I hate to be disappointed with daffodils.

I do want to try for one that is fragrant. I like them to look great in the landscape, more than I am concerned about the detail of the bloom. I like them to look bushy and upright I guess and not stringy? or too droopy. Not stiff either..lol. I want to get about 3/4 varieties and get 3 that are inexpensive and one that is any one I want.

So can you tell me 3 inexpensive daffodils that you couldn't be without? Just to narrow down the choices. And maybe one expensive one that is worth the money?

Thanks,
Adam

My favorite from the 'fancy' cathegory is Tahity (bloom in late April, combines very well with young burgundy foliage of barberry 'Roseglow' or 'Royal Burgundy')
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Look at the bulbs you're considering and decide whether you're seeing 'expensive' as more money for a trumpet(large) than for a cyclamineus (small)daffocil, or expensive being a new trumpet which is expensive because there are few of them or it's a 'show' daff for entering in competition vs. old, tried and true daffs that return from year to year and are good increasers.

Not all my favorites are necessarily your best choices because of differences in climate. Some of my jonquillas and tazettas may not like your climate. I love 'stringy' Hawera in great swaths. A nice little trumpet is Topolino. Tete a Tete is an excellent choice for short and fast increase. Thalia smells good and is not expensive.

Nell

Here is a link that might be useful: Nell's Spring bulb pages

Hi Adam,
It's a dilemma, isn't it? So many to choose from and so limited time, energy and space to plant, not to mention limited budget.
Other people's choices may not please you. Here's the criteria I use based on my personal preferences:
-fragrance
-long lived
-long staying power in the garden
-soft yellow or white petals
-single
-no large orange cup
-ability to extend blooming season

Most favorite ones:
-King Alfred (?) - or at least they were sold under that name but its characteristic features match the description for Carlton in the B&B catalog.- it is softly fragrant.
-Trevithian - very fragrant
-Curlew - smells like prinrose
-Geranium & Sir Winston Churchill - late blooming, very pretty and very fragrant

No I don't have Hosta 'Aphrotdite', though I was tempted, but I already had the regular plantaginea and had no more room. Didn't want to spend that much for a Hosta either. I thought if I built a collection of the regular one, it would satisfy the fragrance requirement anyway.

Thank you EGO for that photo of your Tahity. Very pretty.

Nell...yes, I see what you are saying. I am new to looking over the bulb catalogs, as it has been quite a long time..over 10 yrs since I bought any. My first impression is that although the larger trumpets are more expensive, you don't need as many to fill a space as the minis. But I have a front yard and haven't as many perennials there to hide dying foliage and would prefer the minis out front for the narrow foliage. But don't mind paying for a larger plant for the back where it would be planted a distance from the house and would show up better.

No, I am not really looking for the newest daffodil, or a 'show' daff, and yes, I am wanting a tried and true daff that will increase and is pretty in the landscape.

Thanks for pointing out the climate differences. I did notice in the catalog that the tazettas are not as cold hardy, but I thought the jonquillas were ok. NO?

Yes, I like the Topolino and I think I might have a bunch or two of Tete a Tete around here somewhere. Thalia is pretty too and different looking.
Thanks for the link to your site..photos and tables are helpful.

Hi Pitimpinai...yes, it is not fair..lol..that there are so many to choose from and bulbs are not an area where you can cut corners, by starting your own from seed to save money, or swap with someone. I was trying to calculate using the calculations on one of the websites to see how many bulbs it would take to cover the areas I want to add bulbs to and I was shocked at how many it would take. I could add thousands of bulbs before I got it the way I want it. I guess I am only going to make a dent in it this year.

I saved the photos of no less than 29 daffodils that I liked...lol. Instead of figuring out what I liked the best or what are different heights, bloom times and fragrant, I started by using cost as the primary criteria, just to see what I could come up with that was the least expensive for the most bulbs that I choose.

I found that Brent and Becky's was as cheap or cheaper on the varieties I was interested in. I came up with this list...
At Brent and Becky's I could buy 10 each of the following for the price noted...

Minnow $4
N. odorus Linaeus $4.
Itzim, $5.
Jetfire 5
Segovia 6.
Quail $6.
Topolino $5

That would be $35. for 70 bulbs

I could get 25 each at J. Scheepers of the following varieties for the price noted...

N. pseudonaricissus $7.50
Mini mix $9.75

That would be $17.25 for 50 bulbs added to the 70 bulbs would cost me...
$52.25 for 120 bulbs

That would give me a number of fragrant bulbs for very little money, but they aren't all my favorites. Remember, I am choosing from photos that are often of just the bloom and not the plant and the habit of growth is important to me, so I feel like I am at a disadvantage not having seen these in person.

So could someone comment on whether they know from experience that any of these are tried and true, might increase for me? Is there something on this list that I should think about avoiding for any reason?

Some others I was thinking about but they are a little more money were...
Geranium, Winston Churchill [they seem so double, will they flop over?], Jack Snipe, Jenny, Thalia, Petrel, Pink Pride, Ceylon, Ice Follies, Cheerfulness, Barbie Doll, Barrett Browning, and February gold. That is my narrowed down list..lol.

Thanks,

Adam

Hi Adam,
Here's my experience with some of your choices. They may behave differently in other people's garden and climate:

-Minnow - planted twice unknowingly. 100 each. Cute blossoms. Very short staying power and bloom time. Shortest blooming narcisus in my garden(1 day, a few would last 3 days but ratty). Could be because it bloomed a little late in the season so the temperature was too high for its delicate petals. Didn't live long in my garden at all. Most disappeared the following year. Gone totally by the 3rd year. It takes a very sturdy plant to withstand the Midwest's rapid fluctuations of weather and the crowded condition in my garden.

-Segovia - very pretty, same fate in my garden as Minnow. Bloomed even later than Minnow. I have Fruitcup under the maple tree. I like it better. Came back two years in a row. I'll see it it comes back next year. Maybe the shade protects it from the increased heat.

-Geranium & Sir Winston Churchill - Love these. Been in my garden for nearly 18 years now. Multiplies well. Short, strong, study stem and the petals are slightly thicker than other narcissi so they hold up very well even though they bloom late in the season. The small orange eye on white petals is very attractive and eyecatching. Both are tazetta but live well in zone 5.

-Ice Follies - great multiplier, very pretty, long blomming time. The color of the cup changes as it matures, not fragrant, very long lived, very sturdy. Can withstand the wind & rain.

Remember that some of the narcissi are great multipliers. You don't need a lot of them at first. I started with about 10 - 15 each of Geranium, Winston Curchill & Ice Foliies. Now I have a good stand of them.

Try Leucojum aestivum 'Gravetye Giant with your narcissi. It blooms at the same time as mid season Daffs. Very delicate blossoms but very hardy and multiplies faster than Daffs. It doesn't mind wet feet either. My teenage son who is not really into gardening likes them, saying the flowers look like a lamp shade.

Compare the B&B prices with John Scheepers and decide.
Have fun. :-)

Here is a link that might be useful: John Scheepers' Narcissi

Check out this link. :-D

Here is a link that might be useful: Leucojum aestivum 'Gravetye Giant'

Look carefully at price per bulb. 50 of a couple of good increasers may a better buy than 5 or ten of 10 different varieties, as hard as it is to choose just two. It depends on the effect you want.

Minnow is temperamental in my garden. I planted Minnow several years ago. It never bloomed, then it bloomed one puny stem out of a huge handful of bulbs. This past spring I tired of its foliage in front of some nice clumps of daylilies, so I moved it to a partly shaded bed. Amazingly, the bulbs had multiplied over time. Suddenly, after I moved it -- in the green -- they started blooming. Go figure. Cheerfulness is a good alternate to Minnow.

I think you'll find the Odorus Linaeus to be a trifle small and wild-flower like as compared to some of the others. But they are fragrant and precious.

Thalia is cheaper than Petrel, the effect is about the same. Both smell good and are late bloomers.
Winston Churchill is a sport of Geranium. It is not a flopper. Smells good.
Ice King is a sport of Ice Follies. Might be a flopper.
Ice Follies last for years.
Jack Snipe is a cute little flower if you want a bicolor miniature. I've had it skip a year's bloom and then come back full force.

Scheepers has a couple other minature trumpets on the page with Topolino. Don't overlook them.

Nell

P.S. If it's any comfort, ten years here and hundreds of bulbs later, I still have trouble deciding.

Hi Pitimpinai,

Thanks so much for your input. It's not always a foregone conclusion that just because something is inexpensive that it is unworthy of getting. Sometimes, I imagine some varieties fall out of favor simply due to the newer varieties being more popular, or a variety becoming too common. But as you have shown in your response, sometimes varieties are inexpensive for a reason too.

Well scratch off minnow off my list. And too bad about Segovia. I was particularly fond of the look of the bloom.

I really do like Geranium, Ice Follies and Sir Winston Churchill, so those will be definites as I especially love something that will multiply. Gee and holds up to weather too, what a plus that is. If I can keep my order small all the better, I can make up for that increase in price. I really need to plant once and forget about them as much as possible. I am not in a position to plant bulbs just to get a couple of years out of them and then be planting again.

Geranium @ B+B --- 10/$7
Couldn't find Geranium being offered at J Scheepers
Ice Follies @ B+B --- 10/$7 50/$32
Ice Follies @ JSheepers 10/$7.75 50/$21.75

OK, so looking at the "10 for" price is deceiving...the price for 50 is a lot different between the two.

I also love that Leucojum. It is very tall though isn't it? 30inches. I get these confused with Snowdrops. They are different right? If they are that tall, how do they look with the daffs? Are they taller? What else is in bloom when this is in bloom? I like it enough to definitely get it, just wondering where to put it.

I finally found a record of what I already have planted in the yard, and I had 'Mount Hood' which stopped blooming. 'Flower Record' and 'Ice Follies'. I will have to see next spring if I can recognize where I have these planted. I also have a mini and failed to record which it was. It was either Jack Snipe or Jetfire and I enjoy that a lot too.

I really appreciate you taking the time to go over this with me. I am making choices that I feel good about.

:-)
Adam

Hi Nell,

Strange experience with the Minnow. Sometimes you just can't figure..lol.
Yes, I like Cheerfulness too...is Sir Winston Churchill similar?

I think I will try the odorus linaeus, and put them under a tree at a distance from the house. They are certainly worth a try being so inexpensive.

I like Thalia, and definitely getting Ice Follies.
I will go back and look over Sheepers pages on minis again tomorrow.

I did a little searching today and was reminded to check out Dave's Garden. They had a great section on Narcissus and I looked at EVERY ONE. My arms are falling off..lol. But it proved worthwhile. I find some of the photos provided are from real people's gardens and not a catalog shot. The added comments are also helpful in deciding if something is what you want.

I was able to rule in and out a lot of things. Really liked a few...

Barret Browning might be a nice replacement for Segovia

I still love Ceylon

I would love to find a narcissus called 'Empress of Ireland'

February Gold is just okay and wondering if there is another better one that is that early to bloom and won't be effected by a late frost

Geranium still a favorite

Ice Follies is just what I am looking for in the landscape and it was planted with Camelot...has anyone seen that variety?

IItzim is so cute...

Really like Jenny too

Pipit is highly recommended but just didn't care for the photos

Thalia a definite...they report it to be very fragrant and a rapid multiplier and I love the look of them and the habit of growth

So those experiences seem to echo what everyone here has shared and added a few more too. That was my day...I think I will be able to decide on what to order this week.
:-)
Adam

P.S. Yes Nell, it is a comfort. Nice to know I have company!

Pipit is strange, yes. It isn't 'normal' for the petals to be yellow and the cup white. I haven't planted it, but I do have 'Hillstar' which they describe in B&B as a 'sister seedling' to Pipit. Hillstar is much prettier, up close. It's reliable in my garden, too.

Can't remember about Sir Winston Churchill vs. Cheerfulness. I think Cheerfulness has smaller blooms. I think Sir W. is more fragrant. Maybe.

Itzim is cute. Jetfire is fatter and gaudier and I love it.

Nell

This is a wonderful discussion, as pitimpinai said. Beautiful photos, George and Nell, and I love hearing everyone's suggestions. I'm also relieved to hear about Minnow's fussiness--it's died out after its first year each time I've planted it. I was going to buy a few and try again this year, but now I'll focus on something else.

Adam, Segovia actually does quite well for me. I've only had it for 3 years, but it's come back and increased a little each year. Perhaps it's luck, since I haven't grown it extensively, but I think of it as a good grower. Mine came from Scheeper's.

Itzim does really, really well, and it blooms early, so it's a great way to get the daff season going. It is not fragrant, I believe.

Thalia does as well as Segovia--comes back each year and increases some, but not as much as Itzim.

The other star grower for me is Hawera. I have it planted with Muscari armeniacum; they bloom at the same time and I really like them together.

Sun Disc/Sundisc, small but very fragrant, grows happily here, even in partial shade.

Geranium and Craigford--I planted them both and I'm afraid I can't remember which is which now--also do well.

Don't forget that many of the inexpensive daffs are priced low because they are good increasers and, as such, make it easy for growers to build up stock. They should increase well in your garden, too.

I'd like to learn more about Leucojum, too. I planted aestivum once, but felt it had way too much foliage for its delicate blooms. It looked out of balance to me. But I've hear many, many wonderful things about it. pitimpinai, what is a good planting situation/combination for it? I was thinking about trying L. vernum, which is supposed to be smaller. I LOVED L. autumnale but it hated my soggy spring soil.

Amanda

Another update..

I called JScheepers and spoke to the horticulturist there. I asked if they could recommend varieties that will come back reliably and increase. After a discussion about my growing conditions, they seemed to feel that clay soil would be an obstacle to that. The only two he could recommend were Flower Record and Ice Follies.

I asked about the species narcissus and whether they would grow well in clay...he said they might not come back after the winter of being wet. He said maybe the cyclemineus group would do ok.

So, does anyone here grow narcissus in clay soil? I have clay soil, although I think it is sort of loamy and not too heavy. It certainly doesn't crack when dry and I don't get puddles or standing water after a rain. I tested the ph this spring and it was 6.4. I thought narcissus liked clay?

Adam

My clay is sort of like yours and I have no problem for daffs to come back.

Adam, it might be time to do some serious research online -- university hort sites, botanical garden sites and the like, utilizing resources that are in climates and soils similar to your own (you wouldn't want to research Pacific Northwest sites, for instance, but northeast sites would be excellent).
The American Daffodil Society is a great resource, and you can find local chapters in your area on their site.

As best I remember, triandrus daffodils don't mind dampish places. No narcissus wants standing water, but you can raise your beds and amend with compost and you should be fine.

At the library, look for Brent Heath's book, 'Daffodils for American Gardens' and Judy Glattstein's books on bulbs. Both are good investments for your garden library, too.

Nell

Hi Adam and everyone,
Hmm. So it was not just me having little success with Minnow.

Someone had problem with his Thalia earlier this year. I forgot where he got it from.

Sun Disc/Sundisc didn't live long for me either. Just too crowded in my garden.

Craigford is a mid season bloomer. Much earlier than Geranium. Looks almost like Geranium. Smells good too.

re Leucojum. LOL. Amanda is right. Way too many leaves. Stay green longer than narcissi too. :-P But I love them. Planted only 25 the first year. Loved it so much I added 100 the next year. A mistake, because they multiply like rabbits. :-) I suggest that you plant no more than 25-30 and quite far apart, say 2' to give them room to increase. I like mine right in front of the border between Alchemilla mollis so I can admire its delicate beauty and Alchemilla can hide the Leucojum later in the season. Since it is white, it goes well with everything.

I have clay soil. I learned that large size narcissi don't mind it one bit, but miniatures don't like it at all. I planted a couple hundred of N. bulbocodium on my lawn that had not really been cultivated hoping to get a drift of it. Didn't work. Only one bloomed then totally disappeared.

Nell's reading suggestion is good. My soil is heavy clay. I have amended it over the years. In fact, I add leaves in the planting hole as I go. Here is what I actually do when I plant blulbs:

Dig a deep hole, place a handfull of leaves and a pinch of bone meal at the bottom- a bit of soil-large bulb-a bit of soil & bone meal-a handful of leaves-a bit of soil with bone meal-minor or small bulb-soil-leaves-soil-another bulb-soil-leaves and a bit of soil. I call it composting in situ. LOL. My own invention. Works like charm. My garden beds is quite loamy now. Still rather heavy, though.

I may plant 2 or 3 bulbs in one hole, depending on what I have. When I have mulch and/or compost I dump the whole thing on top of the beds whenever I clean them up.

Pitimpinai--so THAT'S why I can't grow bulbocodium! (I have clay soil that's a lot like Adam's.) Thank you for that explanation, from the bottom of my wallet...although my wallet's getting plenty of exercise after your 'Globemaster' recommendation. :)

I see the beauty of Leucojum, and I see how it could be stunning with Alchemilla mollis. I think it may look out of place in my garden because I grow so many small, fine-textured plants. Maybe I should try it with some of the "big" plants, like the Bergenia.

Your combinations sound really lovely, by the way, and the gardening practices you've described strike a definite chord here--stuffing in a zillion plants, always having so much in bloom that old bulb foliage goes unnoticed, multiple plantings in one hole... I like your composting in situ idea. I've done something along those lines with perennials and shrubs: dig a large-ish hole, throw in a layer of old leaves, add a layer of compost or whatever's around, insert plant, backfill, mulch with very fine-textured cedar mulch that breaks down quickly. I like to think it all helps attract earthworms to the area.

[Sorry to hijack thread]

Amanda

Thanks, Amanda. Yeah. Globemaster will do that to your wallet. :-) It's worth it, though. Make sure it is planted in very well drained soil and don't water it too much. There 's a very long fat row of this allium in a raised bed in the Art Institute of Chicago garden. I stopped counting after 150. The gardener said that bed did not receive additional water at all other than rain and snow. The allium has multiplied every year.

I think Leucojum among Bergenia sounds lovely. It wouldn't look bad among minor bulbs, I don't think, since the minor bulbs will enhance its beauty and make the taller L. stand out. Yes, Adam, it does grow to 30".

Yup. I like my garden all crammed up. I hate bare soil. I am such a tightwad I can't stand any waste even for planting space. LOL.

I like to use compost and leaves to line my planting hole too. I have been composting one way or the other for ages. There are thousands of earthworms in my garden. :-D

Go for it, Adam. Your soil will be lovely in the long run.

In late fall the big ball alliums sell for half price or even less at Lowes and Home Depot, which is how I got Giganteum, Gladiator, christophii and Ivory Queen. They were magnificent. Now we'll see if they return, since this type is not rated well for our mild winters.

My favorite new daffodils were Jetfire, stunning long-lasting display, Thalia (obtained from both Home Depot and Lowes but both batches were unfortunately virused. I've ordered more from another supplier) beautiful form, shimmering white, and Dreamlight, very late season, unusual and delicate. Don't know about whether they will return or multiply in my heavy clay.

I learned many new things this year, not least of which how many of the minor bulbs have a pleasing scent! I rarely pick bulb flowers, preferring the longer-lasting display in the garden because I've had so few, but I actually got on my knees this year and was delighted by the fragrances I'd formerly missed. I did not keep a record but Brent and Becky's usually indicates if a bulb is fragrant.

Hi all,

I have been having computer problems since Monday and couldn't get online. So all fixed and just catching up on where I left off.

Thanks for the encouragement that daffodils will come back for me, EGO45. I am defnitely going to put them in, I just want to try to get the varieties that will have the best chance of increasing.

Nell...thanks for the suggestions. I have a few books waiting for me to pick up at the library on Monday. I also hit the American Daffodil Society and posted to a few other lists. Someone put my post on the Daffnet site and I got a few good responses from there too.

pitimpinai....Thanks for the review of varieties you have used. I also heard that the minis don't come back as well. I had been thinking of doing the N. bulbocodium so good to know that isn't the most dependable. Save myself some money to spend on something else.

I have a pile of home made compost still left that I can use to plant with.

Amanda, how do you like your bergenia? I was thinking of getting some for spring bloom, but heard the leaves can get pretty raggedy looking. I don't consider it hijacking Amanda...I am using cardboard and bark mulch as a cover on all our beds. The earthworms love it.

I have the problem of about 6 silver maples in the surrounding yards and their root systems and canopies are in my yard. I have to be careful of digging and amending because of that. I compost cold and just collect everything in bins and when it is done, I use it.

xanadu...I want to try alliums this year. I would be putting them in a bed that would get watered when it doesn't rain. I was thinking of trying drumstick. I also love Lucille Ball.

I also rarely pick flowers unless they are annuals that will produce more that way. I just hate to see them missing in the yard.

Still haven't decided on what to order yet..
:-)
Adam

I forgot to mention Muscari latifolium, new to me this year. Has one elegant leaf instead of the messy leaves so many Muscari have, a tall dark lovely flower. I also like Chionodoxa, especially the pink form because it's a little larger than the blue/white form. The jury's still out on Galanthus and Colchicum, at least in my garden. This is my first year with them and we'll see next spring whether they improve. Scilla siberica is a stunning rich blue and, again in my garden, a slug magnet. I don't think I saw one whole flower.

Keep in mind that Allium sphaerocephalum, which I love, is the latest of my Alliums to bloom (I know there are later-blooming alliums, I just don't have them yet). Plant a lot, they look better en masse.

I forgot to mention that Johnny's Selected Seeds is carying spring bulbs now and they are all organically grown. The company started to sell them last year. I think I'll give this outfit a try. The prices are slightly higher than VE.

I am new to bulbs in any serious way, and I have to tell everyone on this thread how much I enjoyed reading it. I learn so much from your discussions. Thanks.

Janie

I made a serious error in August 1 post. It's cyclamineus daffodils that reportedly can stand more moisture, not triandrus. All daffodils will perform best in well drained areas.

Nell

Greetings from northwestern Michigan:

Paraphrasing one of Ruth Stout's books, I decided to planted a number of bulbs without have an aching back (How to Have a Green Thumb without an Aching Back) and began to consider the purchase of a bulb or soil auger.

After searching the garden web for recommendations and after looking around for a bit, I've decided to order the Pro Gardening Auger System from the link below. For a little less than the often suggested B & B Planter, I believe that this set will be the better solution for many projects.

I had purchased a 1 3/4 bulb auger from our local Ace Hardware store, but will return it this weekend and patiently wait for the arrival of the new system.

Just thought someone would like to know of this alternative.

Best wishes in your gardening endeavors.

Bill

Here is a link that might be useful: Pro Gardening Auger System