Gritty Mix and Re-potting Kumquat questions

11 years ago

Hello all, I'm New to the forum and I have already found tons of useful information. Which is leading to a lot of questions/confusion. I have read a lot about Tapla's Gritty Mix and I'm about to start moving my container plants into it and I have some questions.
I have a Kumquat tree that has been on a steady decline for the past few months. At this point, it has lost all its leaves. About a month ago, I tried adding fertilizer sticks (no luck) and 2 weeks ago I added grow lights. The light has always been sufficient but I wasn't sure what else to do. It is still not showing any signs of life/improvement.

Now I have come across Tapla's Gritty Mix. This is a new twist to my whole container gardening experience. I'm really excited to start moving all my plants into the Gritty Mix and I have some questions.

1) Is it worth replanting the Kumquat in the Gritty Mix? Is the the Gritty Mix the right Mix or is the 5-1-1 better? It has no leaves at all but I'm not sure how to tell if it is completely dead.

2) I haven't had any luck finding the Pine Bark Fines or the Turface locally. I have tried Home Depot, Lowes, and a local gardening store. I did find the below website that has both the Turface and Pine Bark Fines. Turface Standard Bag $26.00 2.5 gallons (10 quarts) in a resealable bag.

http://www.repotme.com/orchid-potting-media/Turface.html

They also have these Bark Fines, but again I am not sure about the price and if they are the correct size/product.
Small Orchiata Monterey Bark Standard Bag $28.40
2.5 gallons (10 quarts) in a resealable bag

http://www.repotme.com/orchid-potting-media/Monterey-Pine-Bark-Small.html

Combined Shipping is an additional $19.

Basically $74 total. Is the price reasonable for this quantity?

Otherwise, any recommendations on where I can buy the Turface and Pine Bark Fines in the Merrimack Valley area?

3) Lastly, I also have a couple of Snake Plants in 4" containers that I want to move into the Gritty Mix. Is there a rule of thumb for container size I should move into? I was thinking I should at least double it.

Thank you for your help and all the helpful information.Hello all, I'm New to the forum and I have already found tons of useful information. Which is leading to a lot of questions/confusion. I have read a lot about Tapla's Gritty Mix and I'm about to start moving my container plants into it and I have some questions.
I have a Kumquat tree that has been on a steady decline for the past few months. At this point, it has lost all its leaves. About a month ago, I tried adding fertilizer sticks (no luck) and 2 weeks ago I added grow lights. The light has always been sufficient but I wasn't sure what else to do. It is still not showing any signs of life/improvement.

1) Is it worth replanting the Kumquat in the Gritty Mix? Is the the Gritty Mix the right Mix or is the 5-1-1 better? It has no leaves at all but I'm not sure how to tell if it is completely dead.

http://www.repotme.com/orchid-potting-media/Turface.html

http://www.repotme.com/orchid-potting-media/Monterey-Pine-Bark-Small.html

Combined Shipping is an additional $19.

Basically $74 total. Is the price reasonable for this quantity?

Otherwise, any recommendations on where I can buy the Turface and Pine Bark Fines in the Merrimack Valley area?

Thank you for your help and all the useful information.

Featured Answer

myermike_1micha

8 years ago

last modified: 8 years ago

Brad, thanks for your comments..

Mark, I asked what you were watering with because the part closet to where the trunk is still looks wet, and so does the bottom of the pot while around and about, and the top looks dry already...There are watering cans that have sprinkler heads on them, also attachments for hoses, and even in indoor kitchen sink if you have the hose that allows you to rinse things off..Even a shower head works fine.

if you use a cup, the water will just run past the bark and you will get wet and dry spots, not good,not an evenly moist mix that will eventually kill your plant. I will tell you that the roots closest to the trunk may be wet, but the ones extending from it are probably not.

With the gritty mix, its a MUST that you use something with a sprinkler end that evenly moistens all the mix. I use a pump sprayer, like the ones they sell for roundup..so handy.

To me it does seem that you do have some bigger bark pieces than you should have, and if you watered just that quickly and it dried that fast, then your bark is repelling water or not getting moist throughout, therefor the reason to moisten your 'bark' for hours before using it...

If I were you, I would make a new batch with smaller bark pieces and make sure you put enough' turface'...I don't see much of that either..Once you do, let the mix sit in a bucket for at least over night and then re pot...Once your mix has the proper size ingredients and moistened over night, make sure it never dries completely out. You can keep the mix evenly moist at all times without fear of over watering..

Did you add gypsum? What fertilizer do you plan on using? If Foliage Pro, then skip the gypsum)

Comments (77)

TheStar
Original Author
8 years ago
I am screening my reptibark (for bark) with a quarter inch screen and I'm left with mostly bigger pieces. Should I be leaving these out of the gritty mix?
greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a
8 years ago
Leave them out of the mix. Use them as mulch or top-dressing for other plants.

Josh
TheStar thanked greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a
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Thanks for the kind words. As for the roots, you'd be very surprised how tough they actually are. There's this common myth out there that you have to be gentle and coddle your plant's roots, and it is just simply not true. I am down right brutal to the roots of any new plant I acquire that needs to be cleansed of peat moss soil. I put the rootball in a bucket of water, and use my fingers to tease the old soil off, and any gobs that just don't want to break free, I cut out or rip off. One final rinse under running water to get rid of any lingering perlite, and into my gritty mix they go, with an immediate watering. You'd also be shocked, as most are, if you watched me repot my cherished 4 foot tall ficus alii. I tip the pot, pull it from the gritty mix it's in, and commence sawing the large roots off with a pruning saw. This year I removed 1/2 of the entire root mass, and it's doing just fine, losing only 2 leaves after a couple of months. With all of that said, you should know that I do the above mentioned work on plants that are healthy, and can tolerate it with no problem at all. However, a struggling plant can survive it too, but will let you know that it's upset by wilting or dropping leaves. Moving your plants into a well drained, porous mix like the gritty mix and it's variations mentioned, is the best thing you'll ever do for your plants. Joe
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TheStar
Original Author
8 years ago
Found this tree on clearance for $3 at the local Lowes without an ounce of soil. I figured it was meant to be...

Can anyone tell me how long before I should start using the Foliage Pro fertilizer?
greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a
8 years ago
It's a Pachira aquatica (Money Tree), and you will want to put it in a bright window. You can water and fertilize immediately. I fertilize mine about once a week.

Josh
TheStar thanked greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a
TheStar
Original Author
8 years ago
Is this bare rooted / cleaned enough to be placed in the gritty mix? I can't seem to find a thread that shows houseplants bare rooted for the gritty and I ha e been cleaning it for a while.
TheStar
Original Author
8 years ago
last modified: 8 years ago
I tried the old hose trick and that worked much better.
myermike_1micha
8 years ago
I would say no....you would have to have all the roots expose so that your roots will be surrounded with the gritty mix...Don't forget to use chopsticks of something similar to fill in around the roots thoroughly once in the pot.

Why not hose them off or dunk them into a container full of water until all that soil clears away and leave your plant in water until you have the mix prepared in the container so as to avoid leaving what is going to be exposed roots to the air?
TheStar thanked myermike_1micha
TheStar
Original Author
8 years ago
Thanks Mike.. I'm up here in NH and as you know its pretty chilly. I was trying to avoid the hose but it was necessary.
TheStar
Original Author
8 years ago
This guy had a rough day. I watered the plant Saturday. Sunday I sprayed it just a bit because I did not want to over water it. On Monday morning this is what it looked like.

The mix in my Pachira aquatica also seems very dry after just watering this morning. The temperature is 60 and humidity is 30 (indoors). Should I be watering these every day? Could I have a problem with my mix not holding enough water?
myermike_1micha
8 years ago
Hi Star...I see 60's next week meaning Josh will probably freeze on the west coast..ha

Did you soak your mix for a couple of day to allow the bark to get saturated? That's a step many miss. Did you water with a sprinkler head?
TheStar thanked myermike_1micha
TheStar
Original Author
8 years ago
last modified: 8 years ago
Just found this from an old post by Al. This really helps...

"tapla

It depends - immediately after root pruning & repotting, you may need to water quite frequently to make sure there is an adequate level of moisture in the part of the soil occupied by roots. Once the roots have colonized the entire container, you needn't water again until the soil becomes quite dry deep in the container.

It's difficult to over-water a properly made gritty mix, one that has been made with particles screened to an appropriate size, but just as easy to over-water a gritty mix made with inappropriately fine ingredients as it would be using any soil with an abundance of fine particulates. If you're not going to screen the ingredients, or you're going to start adding fine particles to 'increase water-retention' that comes with the creation of a perched water table, you might as well save yourself the trouble of making it and use the 5:1:1 mix or similar instead, because you will have eliminated the most significant advantages - superior aeration and an insignificant (or no) perched water table.

Al"

Mike -

Thank you for the reply...

I did not soak the mix for a couple of days. I was worried about the mix sitting in stagnant water. I will do that next time.

I am watering with a regular cup, not sure what you mean by sprinkler head?

Mark
Brad Edwards
8 years ago
I wanted to tell you something that will help you and should help other gardeners a lot. Its not always about weather, in fact 50+% of problems are soil.

I think part of the problem is your clay pot. Clay pots need to be watered more and dry out faster, its been windy here and probably there as well in the spring, couple that with a peat moss based mix which sometimes don't take water early, "they need a heavy watering to start saturating" and the water may have just run off, especially if there is a lot of what I call foam balls and light soil that many of the potting mixes have. When in doubt go with compost and manure, heck I topdress with manure once a week on the farm here and it works miracles. Plant high, add 1/5th the mulch you need, add soil to the correct depth about 1/2 a week later, add 3/4 the mulch you need, top off with manure at the edges of the rootballs, water deeply once a week and that will cover a ton of stuff, adjust soil for things akin to what they need, like bouganviallas in crap peat "they look amazing in cali so therefore replicate the soil and micro environment". I am doing a tuscany garden in LA "lower Alabama" because I have so many clay pots and the perfect microclimate spot even though it rains 1/4th the year I have some pretty spanish lavender etc. Just a heads up and hope this helps some people a lot.... look up no till gardening for more tips.
TheStar
Original Author
8 years ago
last modified: 8 years ago
Hi Mike,

Thanks again for the feedback.

Your right about the bark pieces. In my first mix I did not screen the reptibark and the bigger pieces seem to have floated up to the top. I'm waiting for my new screens to arrive then I can make a new batch and re pot.

I went out and purchased a spray bottle for watering and your right about that too... The mix seems to hold the water much better. It does not just pour right out the bottom of the clap pot.

(Side note: I did buy the Essential Everyday spray bottle for $3.99 from Shaws and its really poor quality. It is slow, it leaks/drips already and its uncomfortable to hold. I purchased another one at Lowes and the quality was much much better.)

The Tomato was doing much better last night / this morning...

No Gypsum...I'm using the Foliage Pro Liquid 9-3-6.
Brad Edwards
8 years ago
If you pinch the bottom suckers off you'll get more growth out of the top-
TheStar thanked Brad Edwards
TheStar
Original Author
8 years ago
Great.. Thank you...I haven't done that in a while. I was just about to Google it to see what I should be pinching.
myermike_1micha
8 years ago
last modified: 8 years ago
Awesome! By the way, no need for gypsum if you are using Foliage Pro..Glad you were able to correct things before you lost any plants)

You should water those tomatoes just about every day until your mix gets use to holding moisture since Tomatoes of all plants love to be watered..
Brad Edwards
8 years ago
another thing we do that is challenging is pinch the tops and get a good seed starter mix in the middle of summer and often you can reroot tomatoes for the fall. Use root tone or willow water. :)
TheStar
Original Author
8 years ago
This tree was in my yard when I bought my house. Can anyone help identify it? Some type of weeping cherry maybe? Would the foliage pro 936 be good for it?
TheStar
Original Author
8 years ago
Oh by the way I'm in New England on the MA/NH line.
myermike_1micha
8 years ago
last modified: 8 years ago
You won't need any fertilizer for that tree..It is a weeping ornamental no cherry producing tree, mostly for shade and flowering.. I have had one for years...Just organics in the soil and even just your soil will do just fine..Besides, using Foliage Pro on outdoor in ground plants would cost you a fortune..

Just scratch in some cow compost around it or use a spray nose end fertilizer like MG if you are concerned..Trust me, that tree will do just fine without doing a thing.

I too live on the border of New Hampshire near Tynsgboro..
TheStar thanked myermike_1micha
myermike_1micha
8 years ago
Star.............

Are you willing to drive to Milford N.H for your bark?

It's the Orchid bark that is better than the repti-bark and cheaper, and you could also too use Orchiata bark which is just as good...Let me know and I will give you the info)

I was a member of the Orchid Society and we used huge bags of that bark for a good price..I know the supplier
TheStar thanked myermike_1micha
TheStar
Original Author
8 years ago
Hi Mike,

Thank you very much for the offer. I am definitely willing to drive to Milford. Do you use the Orchid/Orchiata bark the same way that you use the repti-bark in the gritty? Please let me know the details when you have a chance.

Mark
TheStar
Original Author
7 years ago
This tomato plant seems to be enjoying the gritty mix...

& some random seeds I started off in just turface..

I do have a question about watering the Gritty Mix. My mix at work is completely dry when I arrive in the morning. I have tried a wooden stick and it does not get wet at all when I run it down the inside of the clay pot. I then spray them with water until it starts dripping out of the bottom of the clay pot. I sometimes do this a couple times a day. Now I'm worried about being away on the weekends. Is it okay to go a couple days without watering the plants? Should I skip a day here and there to let them totally aerate?
myermike_1micha
7 years ago
last modified: 7 years ago
Well, because you stuck them in clay they will dry out much faster than in a plastic pot..You could wrap a plastic bag after soaking your pots in water before you leave)

I use the pot in pot method too..I would sink those pots in a bigger pot full of mulch, mulching the top too and ten water away..Should stay moist much longer.

Personally, I would not use the 1.1.1 mix for short term plantings, especially for tomato's, very thirsty high water need plants..I would use the 5.1.1 mix which holds moisture longer.
User
7 years ago
Josh, going way back to TheStar's posting re pine bark, shouldn't composted pine bark fines (i.e., soil conditioner) be used for the 511 mix not mulch?
greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a
7 years ago
Vlad, the recipe does call for composted bark, and that makes the "true" 5-1-1.

However, I use uncomposted bark, which gives the mix even longer life. The primary consideration is that the mix is more porous, and so careful watering must be done at first to ensure full saturation. Very quickly, though, the mix "binds" nicely, and performs much like a 5-1-1 made with composted bark.

Josh
User
7 years ago
Thanks for the info. I am having a tough time finding composted fines and have been using uncomposted fines from mulch.
greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a
7 years ago
Same here; I've never been able to find composted bark, so I've just used the uncomposted and made sure to water a little more often at first. Also, you can always add an extra part of potting mix/peat to bind the bark, especially in a hot environment.

Josh
TheStar
Original Author
7 years ago
Now that I have some experience with the Gritty mix I am thinking of going back and trying a 5-1-1 with that Timberline Bark pictured above & Josh's recommended mix (below) for tomatoes, peppers, cucumbers and other mixed vegetables:

"The last picture, there, could possibly be used for a very moisture retentive 5-1-1. I would probably use one less part bark, one extra part Perlite, and maybe turface in place of the potting mix."
TheStar
Original Author
7 years ago
Hi Josh,

I actually have a question about what you said above...

"The last picture, there, could possibly be used for a very moisture retentive 5-1-1. I would probably use one less part bark, one extra part Perlite, and maybe turface in place of the potting mix." We were talking about the Timberline Pine Mulch pictured above. When you said Turface instead of potting mix, I'm not sure what you mean.

I thought the 5-1-1 is:

"5 parts pine bark fines, dust - 3/8 (size is important

1 part sphagnum peat (not reed or sedge peat please)

1-2 parts perlite (coarse, if you can get it)

garden lime (or gypsum in some cases)

controlled release fertilizer (if preferred)"

Did you mean to skip the sphagnum peat and use Turface instead?

Also, if I'm using the Foliage PRO 936 can I skip the lime and gypsum in the 5-1-1?

This is the picture. This is the closest I have found to Pine Bark Fines in MA/NH. I am using Repti Bark for my Gritty Mix but its just too expensive to use in BULK for the outdoor vegetables.

It seems like the more I read about the Tapla Gritty / 5-1-1 the more questions I have.

Thank you,

Mark
greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a
7 years ago
Yep, I did mean to replace the peat/potting mix with Turface instead. So many ways to adjust and adapt the recipe.

Don't skip the Lime. Not only does it provide Calcium and Magnesium, but it also slightly raises the pH of the mix.

Josh
TheStar thanked greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a
TheStar
Original Author
7 years ago
last modified: 7 years ago
Thanks Josh. You mentioned that his type of Mulch would be "moisture retentive." I thought adding turface would increase the moisture retention? So, wouldn't it be even more retentive if I replace the peat/potting mix with turface?
greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a
7 years ago
Turface is durable and has structural integrity, and so, while it does hold moisture very well, it will also hold the mix open to allow for better drainage and aeration. You could add an extra part of Perlite.

Josh
TheStar thanked greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a
TheStar
Original Author
7 years ago
Tough to capture a picture of this but the roots are growing out the bottom of my clay pots.

Is this a good sign? Does it need to be repotted ASAP? I was hoping to wait few more weeks before planting/repotting outside.

Also, is the white stuff on the outside of the clay pots okay? I read somewhere that it was just calcium build up but it looks almost like a mold.

These are citrus seeds I just started in Gritty Fines in Wine Corks...
greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a
7 years ago
The white residue is fine on the pot, but, yes, it needs to be potted up or planted out.

Those winecork plantings are cool.

Josh
TheStar thanked greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a
TheStar
Original Author
7 years ago
Anyone have any idea whats going on with this plant? We just bought it about a month ago and these spots are popping up. Its in a bright room but no direct sunlight. We have not been over watering. Maybe more towards under watering. I have been letting it dry out pretty good before watering.
TheStar
Original Author
7 years ago
Hi Josh,

I was hoping you could answer a few questions?

Its finally warm enough up here to plant outdoors. Ill be mixing up the pine bark, gypsum and perlite for my outdoor raised garden boxes over the next few days. I'm planting tomatoes, cucumbers, peppers and some other veggies.

I'm planning on screening the pine back bags (pictured) to filter out anything over 3/8". I'm not exactly sure why I need to remove the big pieces? Do they mess with the moisture even if there isn't that many of them?

Then I will be adding 4 parts pine fines to 1 perlite and 1 turface. Does the turface also need to be screened (to eliminate the fines)? The beds are kind of big so I was thinking of using a 5 gallon bucket - so 4 buckets of pine fines, 1 bucket of perlite and 1 bucket of turface.

The beds are 2 feet wide x 4 feet long and 1 foot high (red cedar). Any idea how much lime? Also, I believe the lime is slow release/pellets - did you mention somewhere that I should dissolve them before pouring into the mix?

You mentioned above that the pine was very fine. Should I be doing 4 buckets pine, 2 perlite and 1 turface?

Sorry for so many questions...just hoping to clear up some confusion and hoping to get it close to right.

Thank you,

Mark
TheStar
Original Author
7 years ago
Ran into a ROADBLOCK as I started making my mix. As I was sifting/screening I'm losing more than half due to the size. I'm trying to fill 3 garden beds that are 4 ft x 2 ft so I need quite a bit of mix to fill them (24 cubic feet).

Any recommendations? I'm just at a loss and not sure what to do.

I'm thinking its going to take 25+ bags to fill up the beds with that much mulch being screened out. Also it will take a lot of time to screen that many bags.

Can I use the mulch as is with extra perlite/turface?

Also, I'm really not sure what to do with all the excess larger stuff. I don't have any mulch beds to use it in.. any ideas?

TOO BIG

TOO BIG

GOOD STUFF
tropicofcancer (6b SW-PA)
7 years ago
The pictures above are mostly shredded stuff with a lot of sapwood. This is not an ideal stuff for either 511 or gritty mix. What you want is bark.

The bark I get looks like this:

After sifting 3 cubic feet bags I get this
The wheel barrow is everything above 1/2 inch and goes to garden paths. The cement tub is everything below 1/8 inch and the red tub is the final yield. For gritty I would sift the portion in the red tub with 1/4 screen. For 511 I would add a portion of the real fine stuff for the annual plants to make it a little more water retentive.

I got the bark from a local Agway store but had to order them. Really nice stuff.
TheStar
Original Author
7 years ago
I have been looking for the pine bark in MA/NH since spring and have had no luck.

I bought the bags of Pine Bark Pictured above hoping it would be usable. At this point its getting late so I'm hoping I can just use what I have.

Any suggestions on just using the pictured Pine Bark above with some gypsum and/or turface?
tropicofcancer (6b SW-PA)
7 years ago
To me it looks like adding some coarse perlite will be more helpful. You can still add some turface. The shredded bark tends to clump together with much less air space than the nugget like shapes.

Also scan this thread to see if can find a source if you haven't already.
TheStar thanked tropicofcancer (6b SW-PA)
TheStar
Original Author
7 years ago
Thank you for the reply. I have seen that thread and tried the places mentioned. Unfortunately, I had no luck.

As Josh mentioned above, I am hoping I can just use the 4 Parts of the Pine Bark Mulch pictured above (AS IS - unscreened) to 1 part turface and 1 part perlite (with Lime).

Basically I'm just wondering if the Pine mulch I got is that bad.. Will it be adequate or will I just be slowly killing my plants?
TheStar
Original Author
7 years ago
Well I ended up using the pine bark mulch as is. As Josh mentioned about I went with 1 less pine bark mulch to added extra part perlite and 1 part turface. More like a 4-1-1. Hopefully it works out okay.

Pictures along the way...

After dumping off the top of the gritty mix...

Look at these roots, I waited too long to repot.
tropicofcancer (6b SW-PA)
7 years ago
You will be fine. That is a tomato right? For a short season plant you should be OK. Keep it fertilized regularly. I presume you raked out (untangled) the outer roots a bit.
TheStar
Original Author
7 years ago
I did untangle them. I was wondering if I should trim some of them but I just let them be.
tropicofcancer (6b SW-PA)
7 years ago
Just let them grow.
TheStar
Original Author
7 years ago
Yes, they are tomato's. I have been using the Dyna Gro 9-3-6 for fertilizer. Should I get them right back on it or give them a week to adjust?
TheStar
Original Author
7 years ago
Does anyone use the weed guard/netting underneath raised cedar beds? or anything else? I put mine straight down on the mulch without anything.
tropicofcancer (6b SW-PA)
7 years ago
I am a bit late on this. You can start fertilizing the tomatoes if they look doing good and not stressed after the transplant.

I am sort of against any contraptions such as weed guard. It does not really help and in the longer run they are a pain. You should be fine with your raised beds on mulch. A weed here and there is OK. A while back someone told me this: you have two pile of dirt - one with weed and one without - which one you will select. The answer is the one with the weed since the other pile is so bad that even weed does not want to grow in that. Anyway, that is just an anecdote.
TheStar thanked tropicofcancer (6b SW-PA)